as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order.
Why would any country not take advantage of the UK position to renegotiate? Do you have these facts in writing? This is not the wto position you keep banging on about, being without deals for 5 to 10 years is.
the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name
🤔
Oh dear ninfan, burned (or rather electrocuted) by TJ.
💡⚡️😵⚡️💡
@mikesmith as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name
How? Where has this been agreed? Why on the earth wouldn’t each and every one of those countries seek to renegotiate a better deal than they could with the EU now they’re the ones mostly in a position of power.
then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order.
Ditto. And not that I can speak to the US, NZ or Japan perspectives, but the Australian one on trade with the UK is very clear. They feel they were cut loose when we joined the single market and moved away from preferential treatment of the ex-colonies. There’s certainly not the fawning for the old dart that a jingoistic Pom would expect. And in any case, Australia has a small population literally half the world away. It’s never going to be that significant for trade.
Even the EU once it pulled its finger out concluded the Canada deal in 2 years. The first 6 where wasted arguing about dispute resolution organisations.
So remind me: how efficiently are the Brexit negotiations going, and whose fault is that? The EU has had a position on the issue for over a year. The UK still doesn’t know what its position is.
I like "As you well know" as a tactic though.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
@mikesmith as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name
cite
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wheres-teamhurtmore/page/3/#post-8201013 😆
I like “As you well know” as a tactic though.
Yes, I chuckled at that too. Bless.
jambalaya as ever the dissembler.
As you well know the border question is significant if the UK goes or is forced into for your chosen WTO and the government can't just ignore the UK border. As you well know you've been asked repeatedly to explain how this will work but ignored the question.
Could you detail the smuggling from RoI HMRC currently turns a blind eye to?
as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order.
That's cheared me up. Especially coming from a "we should just revert to WTO rules" misbeliever. A proper chuckle. I like to picture you enjoying posting it to, I hope you did.
Read this recently, to help get my head around both what the USA will want to squeeze us on, and issues for us trading with our large and local neighbour post Brexit…
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/files/reports/2017/NTE/2017%20NTE.pdf#page147
@jimjam that was my point on “smuggling” the UK for its part currently just turns a blind eye for the sake of peace in Ireland. We could just do the same once we leave. May says she will do more and work with the EU but for me you can interpret her words as meaning we can just keep doing the same post Brexit. We won’t put up a border.
The technological solution is obviously little more than that - we'll put up some cameras, maybe not switch them on and not bother to fix them when they are inevitably broken. At the minute both countries turn a blind eye because citizens have dual citizenship and freedom of movement under the GFA. There's also a huge amount of regulatory alignment since both countries are in the EU. There's no giant regulatory loophole which could create a blackmarket too big to ignore. What happens if Turkey join the EU and Turkish citizens just use Ireland as a back door to the UK?
Cross border communities are just that - communities which span both sides of the border. The long term political subtext was obviously to increase cross border bodies, increased regulatory allignment and co-operation, so cross border trade, work, hospitals, ambulances, even policing down the line to the point where there's little or no distinction which side of the border you're on. Brexit will likely throw a spanner in the gears for a lot of people unless it's an Island Ireland which makes perfect sense from our POV because it changes nothing for people in NI and ROI and it's what the majority of people in NI voted for.
So finally Germany has a Government after 5 months of paralysis. Merkel hanging on by her fingertips having to give up finance ministry as well as foreign affairs. As per UK all eyes will be on who will succeed her and when. At least she has avoided another election at which the AfD would only make further gains.
Tonight’s results in Italy may possibly (probably) put the anti-EU parties as the largest single block. I am sure they won’t form the Government but convict Berlesconi will be back and he has committed to deport 600,000 illegal migrants as 5-Star and League drive the agenda
Interesting how the electoral results show how much more liberal the UK is than so much of Europe. Macron even admitted to Andrew Marr France would vote for Frexit
In other news fascinating that EU put 10% tariffs on US cars whilst US only imposes 2.5% on EU cars. Seems to make sense to even that up
So finally Germany has a Government after 5 months of paralysis.
The UK hasn’t had a functioning government since June 2016. What’s your point?
Interesting how the electoral results show how much more liberal the UK is than so much of Europe.
Or that they just have more representative electoral systems
In other news fascinating that EU put 10% tariffs on US cars whilst US only imposes 2.5% on EU cars.
Probably fairly irrelevant. American cars are by and large utter shite.
Jamba what do you feel about those surrendering pussies at The Leave Alliance's opinion about the WTO?
http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128
I keep asking what is so special about the WTO.
Another unelected acronym that wants me to pay 30% more for my chocolate. That's not taking back control. That's a hard working British taxpayer bring told what to do by foreigners.
'In other news fascinating that EU put 10% tariffs on US cars whilst US only imposes 2.5% on EU cars. Seems to make sense to even that up'
certainly if you're an american car manufacturer, however american cars are pretty cheap if you care to look. they are for the most part also uniformly shit, but that's just an opinion you understand. 😉
Jamba what do you feel about those surrendering pussies at The Leave Alliance’s opinion about the WTO?
You don’t honestly expect to get anything approaching a constructive answer, do you?
French polls are pro-Euro and anti-Frexit. You need to link Macron saying that because he's not often wrong on points of fact, Jamba.
May hanging on by fingertips propped up by the DUP who will never accept the Brexit May needs to get Irelands agreement (Any deal has to get the republic's agreement).
French and Italian far right policies hijacked by the right which did them a disservice in France and in Italy we'll see.
"liberal" means many different things to different people so I've no idea what you mean by Britain being more liberal than most of the rest of Europe. Define "liberal" and then we can debate.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
So finally Germany has a Government after 5 months of paralysis.
Oh look, a squirrel!
JambyAnswer on the border / WTO question, or indeed what is currently smuggled yet?
It really would be nice to get an answer on these recurring questions, Jamby. So much of your argument depends on these issues being resolved in a timely and effective manner.
MM which is the worst option? hm here trolling or Jamby picking up him mantle and immediately rejoining* when he is [ presumed] banned
It seems the two work in tandem to troll this thread and coordinate off forum to achieve this end
Is he buying your P this time?
Apologies if this is breaking the rules, but I think Jambalaya is genuine, he doesn't answer the difficult questions because he can't, they're not really answerable questions. To admit that is to admit that the whole process is an unholy mess, and that calls into question his Brexit ideology, and that will cause all sorts of cognitive dissonance, so it's easier just to ignore it and hope it all comes out in the wash, it's the govt approach after all.
THM is pretty nasty, and has some strange obsession with feeling like he's the cleverest person in the room, done mostly by winding other people up. Many pages ago on this thread his mask of civility slipped, for a few posts, it was unedifying, but rather educational.
THM isn’t “nasty” at all. IMO he see’s no need to be polite to those that show little courtesy to others. Look at the regular “lefty” posters and their ban records. TMH and mefty are Remainers but as they are “right wing” in the view of others the desire for this to be a Remain exho chamber sees them singled out
The STW poll was 80% Remain, its clear fhe forum users and in particular regular posters here are not representative
Your views are no more representative than the remainers.
Look at the regular “lefty” posters and their ban records
the ones all here and not banned ? Why dont we just discuss his ban record - anyway i am sure he appreciates the defence* and i hope it earns you your P
* will whatabouterry be enough? It will probably help if you dont accept he is not polite in your next "defence"
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side. The EU is playing a game of “computer says no”.
it is upto both sides to find a solution. A customs union that restricts our ability to do global trade deals (and this redice our ourcjases from them) is what the EU wants.
We have a unilateral solution as I have said repeatedly. I saw all this nonsense coning which is why I posted more than a year ago that WTO was the right way forward with us focusing our attention and rescources globally.
The EU has made no provision at all for WTO outcome with regard to its budget (thry’ve done all they can to stall the budget process for 2021-8 in order to paper over looming arguments). As JRM points out in the video I posted the EU can’t borrow money so if we stop sending £1.5bn a month to them in April 2019 they are in a dreadful mess.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
Oh look, another link from jamba's personal echo chamber - but with this one you get a free:
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side.
That's not an answer. It's already been explained why it's not an answer. Homework for you - rather than having your views reinforced by the fools at your personal echo chamber do some research and find why it isn't an answer (clue, the reason has been posted on this thread).
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph! How many times does it have to be pointed out that this is not an option under WTO rules, even the former head of WTO explained it in fairly simple terms ;
"There will need to be a physical border with Ireland after Brexit if the UK leaves the customs union, the former head of the World Trade Organisation has confirmed.
Speaking to MPs, Pascal Lamy dismissed the idea the UK could operate an invisible border on the island of Ireland while also having different trade tariffs with the EU.
He shot down the Government’s plan for a “virtual border”, saying such a customs arrangement does not exist anywhere in the world"
It's beyond unicorns, ffs
Sorry aracer have I spoiled the homework assignment?
Almost no one is arguing for WTO rules so your views are even less representative than the remainers on here. Have you made your list yet of countries who only do this? Are they all border free?
The idea that a border issue is not our concern is pretty nuts
The idea that WTO mean you dont have to have a border is complete gibbeirsh . Given how much you have gone about it one would have hoped you would understand it by now
Please read this I am sick of posting it
[i]kilo wrote:[/i]
Sorry aracer have I spoiled the homework assignment?
I doubt it - that would require jamba paying attention to what anybody else on here is posting, or anything written anywhere other than a Brexiteer echo chamber.
we will go WTO and not erect a border our side
What does this mean? Anyone know? Nothing I've read as regards how the WTO schedules and tariffs work suggests this is possible. If you're operating under WTO rules, you're keeping a full track of goods crossing your external borders, aren't you? Now, not everything needs checking paperwork/digitalsubmission wise as it crosses into your jurisdiction, but there must be the means to do so such checks, and in some sectors there's a minimum % of shipments that must be physically checked at the border. Or am I mistaken? Jamba?
I'm going to retrain as a smuggler.
I won't even have to be a proper smuggler, I'll just drive a lorry full of whatever is cheaper one side, drive it and offload, and fill it back up with what evers cheaper on that side, to maximise efficiency, you see.
I still haven't been told why WTO is so important. Can't we just sort out our own deals?
A faceless organisation that threatens to put me and my staff out of a job doesn't seem like a good thing.
The sooner we are out of it the better.
Answers please.
surely if there is no need for a border in Ireland , why should there be a border in France ? does it mean all security will be off in Calais and anyone can just enter the uk as long as they can buy a ferry or Eurostar ticket ?
same for Heathrow and all other airports ?
if so , then yes I agree with you Jambalaya , it is a great idea !
Lol.
'we must take control of our borders'
'the EU insist we have a border - the bastards!'
"WTO rules" doesn't actually mean WTO rules to a brexiteer. It's just a magic wand they wave that they think means "we'll do whatever we want". And it goes down pretty well because of course most people haven't a clue what the WTO rules are. So the leaders of the church say "we'll go WTO and it'll be great" and the congregation say, hallelujah.
It's an open question in each case whether the brexiteers in question do understand WTO rules themselves and are just choosing to talk shite, or if they're totally clueless.
As JRM points out in the video I posted the EU can’t borrow money so if we stop sending £1.5bn a month to them in April 2019 they are in a dreadful mess.
Lies. £1.15b after rebate, which doesn't get sent. £783m at worst after £4.4b pa back from the EU.
https://visual.ons.gov.uk/the-uk-contribution-to-the-eu-budget/
I realise that at this magnitude of cash, a few tens of millions here or there dosen't seem much, but when you do this time after time about the numbers, your message is lost in the lie.
Germany has already agreed to cough up most of the shortfall. A non problem then.
The countries needing help are fewer and further between. Remember the PIGS? Well check out GDP growth rates and you'll find that only Greece is still stagnant. Check out debt and you'll find they're all paying down debt. Now have a real laugh and check out private debt to GDP and compare with the UK:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/private-debt-to-gdp
Click on "MAX" to see teh graph from 1996. On the basis of it's current performance the UK would have been the next country to look to the EU for help as a member of UKIG - United Kingdom, Italy and Greece. Thankfully you're leaving and my taxes won't go to helping you out (add smiley, I can't see any to click).
Edit: here's the other half of the story because some countries aren't as bad as they look:
https://tradingeconomics.com/france/personal-savings
I’m going to retrain as a smuggler.
I’m truely embracing Brexit and was thinking of becoming a pirate, I’m going to get a pirating licence off May and go after a few of those container ships.
Should be ace just like the old days.
Look at the regular “lefty” posters and their ban records.
I’ve been banned once, possibly twice (and perhaps a couple more times way back in the annals). Both a long time ago, and certainly the one that sticks in my mind was a drunken argument about rugby, which I definitely deserved. To the best of my knowledge I’ve received only one warning for my conduct on this thread: for accusing THM of extracting facts from his posterior. Make of that last point what you will.
Zokes the answer is the EU have to budge or unilaterally we will go WTO and not erect a border our side.
Just how many times do you need to be told that the WTO state that such a solution is not acceptable to them? If anyone’s computer is having issues, I fear it is your own.
And as Del highlights, if you’re so anti-borders, why don’t we just get rid of all of them? Do you honestly believe that someone who wants to illegally enter the UK won’t just waltz in via Ireland?
Do you honestly believe that someone who wants to illegally enter the UK won’t just waltz in via Ireland?
When I lived in London there were plenty of people working who were in theory living in Dublin after using up all of their UK visa time... flight to Dublin, bus to Belfast flight back to London.
stolen from a grauniad comment
Brexit: like shooting oneself in the foot and blaming the gun.
Do you honestly believe that someone who wants to illegally enter the UK won’t just waltz in via Ireland?
As Ireland isn't in Shengen illegal immigrants won't find it any easier than at present unless Ireland decides to join Shengen or EU countries decide to put the border back down the English Channel rather than in EU ports. The only border that will change is the NI/ROI border, and in terms of immigration that doesn't change as long as Dublin and London agree on immigration policy. Britain has been able to cut itself off from illegal immigration thanks to the cooperation of its neighbours. Say thank you, pay the bills for Calais and elsewhere, and play fair if you wish that to continue.