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ninfan, classy as ever!
Just ignore the unpleasant troll. He only does it for a reaction to fill what must be quite a cavernous hole in his life. Don't respond and he'll go away, or eventually post something inflammatory enough to get himself banned for a long time. Again.
Yes, the majority of people who voted, voted for brexit. But nobody voted for a particular brexit
Just imagine if remain had won by less than 2% but suddenly that was seen as full endorsement of Schengen, the Euro, and a fully federalised Europe. I'm sure the leavers would have been just fine with that, coz "democracy"
It is telling that the most in depth definition of what Brexit means is Brexit.
It's not even must try harder that one.
Just imagine if remain had won by less than 2% but suddenly that was seen as full endorsement of Schengen, the Euro, and a fully federalised Europe. I’m sure the leavers would have been just fine with that, coz “democracy”
You mean like us voting to join the EEC in 1974 was seen as full endorsement of the EU expansionand the Maastricht & Lisbon treaties?
I suspect that a significant number of leave voters actually did so precisely because they believed a yes vote would ultimatley have led us unwillingly in to a fully federalised Europe - which has been the direction of travel for some years
and the concentrated effort by the remainers has been to ignore and/or attempt to overturn this by rabidly arguing against Brexit
There as many 'rabid' remainers as there are 'rabid' remainers. However on this thread we're not doing that. So thanks for that, your opinion is noted.
zokes
Just imagine if remain had won by less than 2% but suddenly that was seen as full endorsement of Schengen, the Euro, and a fully federalised Europe. I’m sure the leavers would have been just fine with that, coz “democracy”
Most remainers wouldn't have been fine with that I think! But yes, it makes the point nicely.
“Most remainers wouldn’t have been fine with that I think! But yes, it makes the point nicely.”
Actually, when you put it like that it probably makes the point even better: apart from our resident cabal here, most leavers aren’t exactly chuffed with the hard Brexit idea.
'discussions about what leaving the EU consists of and the advantages or disadvantages of the various post Brexit trading and social agreements have been utterly ignored and lost in the noise'
well it's a good thing that when asked, you set out your position so succinctly.
Mental Capacity Act 2005
Five Statutory Principles
The Act is underpinned by five principles, which are contained within the act and explained in the Mental Capacity Act code of practice:
a presumption of capacity - every adult has the right to make his or her own decisions and must be assumed to have capacity to do so unless it is proved otherwise
the right for individuals to be supported to make their own decisions - people must be given all appropriate help before anyone concludes that they cannot make their own decisions
that individuals must retain the right to make what might be seen as eccentric or unwise decisions
best interests - anything done for or on behalf of people without capacity must be in their best interests
least restrictive intervention - anything done for or on behalf of people without capacity should be an option that is less restrictive of their basic - as long as it is still in their best interests.
good analysis of Johnsons speech and whether its the first glimmer of a confirmed policy from the government or just part of the eternal Tory power struggle over Europe & Brexit
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/boris-johnson-one-brexit-speech-down-five-go
Heres my analysis of the Johnson speech:
Lying self-absorbed shyster makes the latest in his endless tedious leadership bids by spouting a load of vague meaningless drivel designed to appeal exclusively to the swivel-eyed old loons who constitute the Tory party membership, and will thus be electing the next leader
Has he sorted out the Irish border?
@mikesmith taking his condesemding nonsesne to new deprhs. Thr man who hasn’t the good grace to thank someone for a charitable donation. How is Tasmania for you today ? Still enjoying the benefits of a highly regulated and controlled immigration system
Oustanding speech from our next Prime Minister
You could almost say hes played a blinder! 😉
Yeah the rest of us, who arent so easily led, just see a guy whos lied lots before, trying to bullshit us again
amazingly some people still buy into it!
also contradicts Mays Lancaster House speech, so which is it to be?
once again the internat divisions within the Tory party only make things less clear, hence the negative reaction from both business & the trade unions to Borris' speech -I suppose in that way Borris has managed to unite differing groups!
How is Tasmania for you today ? Still enjoying the benefits of a highly regulated and controlled immigration system
No idea, sat in Manchester.
The benefits of a highly regulated immigration system relies on huge numbers of free to get, minuscule checked working holiday visas. It also leaves a number industries understaffed as they don't make it onto a list or staff have to leave because overall the job market may have changed but doesn't cope with regional fluctuations. As for condescending which bit are you on about? Was it asking for your homework? All I was asking for was a list of countries operating on WTO only - like you want the UK to do, it's a really short list shouldn't take long.
I think the basic problem is too many people believed Theresa when she said “We’re all Brexies now”.
Turns out about 55% of UK adults aren’t - and rising.
I remember suggesting a few hundred pages ago that by the time we left just about the only people in favour of Brexit would be the EU. Looking like we’re still on for that.
Turns out about 55% of UK adults aren’t – and rising.
source for that statistic ?
hes talking about this
Still enjoying the benefits of a highly regulated and controlled immigration system
What are those then?
hes talking about this
ah, a BMG opinion poll. Perfect
You may be interested to note that BMG’s final poll before the EU referendum in 2016 gave remain a seven point lead.
oops
They also ask people how they voted in the referendum. So useful to give an indication of how opinions are changing. These polls suggest that Leave voters still think we should Leave. So no real movement there. Of course, those Leavers haven't been asked to get behind a single Leave plan yet… 'till they do they can keep backing the thing they think/hope is intended…
Oustanding speech from our next Prime Minister
anyone else says this and we would all cry troll
Anyway look like he is plan to reach out to brexies has worked with those who supported him and the leave campaign. In terms of national unity he has a blair like ability to harm any cause he supports and the same level of hubris to be unaware of this.
Of course Jamba is trolling, but that’s a gentle and amusing troll.
We know he’s trolling, he knows he’s trolling and he knows we know he’s trolling.
I don’t agree with Jamba’s statement for an instant, but it was funny.
It’s really as much of a troll of some on the more rabid Brextremists on here as anything.
PS - now’s a great time to say it wasn’t trolling, you really meant it Jamba. Comedy timing and all. 🤗😎😜
Lying self-absorbed shyster makes the latest in his endless tedious leadership bids by spouting a load of vague meaningless drivel designed to appeal exclusively to the swivel-eyed old loons who constitute the Tory party membership, and will thus be electing the next leader
Yes, but he is also trying to appeal to the remainers, who he knows he needs if he is to be PM, by appearing "softer" than the JRM bandwagon.
That speech also indicated the fear the brexiters have over how their delusion is being picked apart by the sensible among us. As I have said before, Brexit is being picked apart piece by piece.
Oustanding speech from our next Prime Minister
He really knows his onions...No Carrots! Organic Carrots!
Of course Jamba was Trolling
he knows perfectly well that JRM is the next PM
he knows perfectly well that JRM is the next PM
Ooh a papist pm. That will go down well.
Nice try ninfan. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but you lack Jamba’s style.
Put simply, too crude, no subtlety.
And ZippyK - stop it. Leave that sort of thing to the bigots.
still no answers on Northern ireland ?
BoJo’s speech seems to have fallen a little flat.
Ninfan might be right. 😆
did he really mentions carrots ?
Yeah it was in the Q&A at the end Johnson was asked the unsurpring question about whether he had any clarity on the gov's actual brexshit position & he pretended he'd missheard clarity as the word 🥕,
Was weird even by Johnson standards, but I suppose playing the fool is his default position when asked for some substance to back up his bullshitting.
the DUP have once again told May to **** off . That should make Brexit negociations on NI a bit more complicated .
Never pay it all up front when you have to hire loyalty
Jambas - have you read Ruth Lea in the FT today?
bravo to Pro-Eu FT for publishing her views. The intolerant ^ should take note.
ninfan
Member
Of course Jamba was Trollinghe knows perfectly well that JRM is the next PM
Any good Conservative would concede that by a thumping Brexit-eclipsing majority, ‘none of the above’ is their next leader. This is a consistent result in conservative Home and bmg polls since the summer. Latest one being Johnson on 13% and R-M on 7%. No one at all on 51%. Kind of puts the ‘anyone but Corbyn’ movement at the last leadership bout into perspective.
The intolerant ^ should take note.
Did he shoot and miss again?
I think THM that “scrap any labour laws business doesn’t like” type Brexit is going to divide Brexy opinion quite nicely.
Other than that it was a bit frothy and didn’t seem particularly well thought out. It’s not my field so perhaps Ms Lea is brilliant but on the basis of that article you’d be hard pressed to see it.
More of the same deregulate and trade with people a very long way away but meet each and every one of their particular sets of their regulations because you have to if you’re not the one with the whip hand. Boris could have written it.
Is she meant to be any good? Serious question. I mean she’s FRSA similar to my father (FBA & FRSE*) and they don’t give that away lightly - but my father ain’t the man he was sadly and maybe Ruth ain’t so good these days either.
It does at least reflect her long held position reasonably well.
Let me know if you feel I’m being unfair.
*get it right Iain
IGM you are free to take your own views on what she says - I read it differently - and on her if you like. Her record and background speaks for itself.
I was more interested in the fact that the FT, to its credit, was happy to publish her opinions despite them being against those of the paper. Debate is important.
I noted the context and contrast with STW in passing but was equally amused that Ms Lea was herself a victim of LW intolerance in her past. It is alleged that she lost a job because of it.
Some cannot handle debate, preferring abuse and bullying instead.
Some cannot handle debate
Pot...
preferring abuse and bullying instead
...meet kettle.
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You really are a work of art, hurty
Yes - As I recall, it was alledged, though never proven, that the Blair Brown government (well known for its hard left policies) forced her out of the IoD. Apart from the fact it remains rumour not fact, the most interesting thing about that is that New Labour has that kind of influence with the IoD. But if Corbyn is being listened to by business groups then perhaps it’s true.
Like you say her record and background are notable possibly exceptional, (actually I think I also noted that), I’m just looking at the article itself and wondering whether she is past the height of her powers or it was just a bad day when she wrote it. Or perhaps as happens occasionally in the press, it got edited.
If you want papers putting views forward counter to their own positions, the Independent has been doing it to some minor extent throughout the Brexit debacle, but the Guardian has been really quite good on this point. Less so the Telegraph, Mail and Express (though the Mail May have changed - I’ve pretty much given up on it).
though the Mail May have changed – I’ve pretty much given up on it
Is its Sunday cousin still at odds with the main (and I use the term loosely) publication?
We shall have to disagree on both the Indy and the guardian, especially the latter
i have no strong views on her. I used to find her interesting in the 90s and early 00s but she has been largely off my radar for a while
but I am prepared to read what she and others like Roger Bootle write. I may disagree with their ultimate conclusions but they are not fools nor do they resort to extreme exaggeration or outright lies that many of those who cannot accept that democracy does not always deliver the results “they want” resort to.
I read many things THM (I actually particularly enjoy the Express), I disagree or dismiss many of them (Express gets an honourable mention again here). I seem to remember you wondering why an engineer was reading Bloomberg - answer, because it proves an interesting view point.
It’s a pity you’ve missed the Brexies in the Guardian because those articles have been some of the better cases for Brexit - I think they know they aren’t preaching to the converted and can’t do the normal jingoistic nonsense. They probably have been less prevalent lately, but then as time has gone on it has become harder and harder to put a convincing, non-nationalist argument for continuing with Brexit (sadly the democratic one had its foundations undermined before the referendum was run).