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Bespoke = anything
It is about as useful a term as "brexit means brexit". About its only use is as a way of judging people. Anyone who witters on about it can be safely ignored.
Norway has been praised as a better than some of the crazy talk – though worse than current
The "worse" is quite important though. Since anyone who voted to "restore democracy" (another pretty useless term) should be appalled by the idea. Also anyone who is still stupid enough to believe Boris and his lies about 350 for the NHS.
Since they pay in the cash and follow the laws but have sod all say.
I suspect that it’s mainly the type of people who go in to buy a new car or house and open discussions by telling the other party what the actual maximum price they would possibly be willing/able to pay is though. Mind you, if it’s those type of people then we probably shouldn’t be surprised that they expect negotiations to be concluded pretty quickly, should we?
What like Red/Pink (pencil) lines?
Like saying we will take whatever deal we are offered or go for the option no other developed country uses?
Or by letting ministers prattle on and contradict the negotiations?
Yes there is a hope some sort of deal can be struck quickly as the alternative is exceptionally messy (even for those sticking their fingers in their ears about any reports) if not at least MP's will have a say at the end.
I suspect that it’s mainly the type of people who go in to buy a new car or house and open discussions by telling the other party what the actual maximum price they would possibly be willing/able to pay is though.
Ah, of course, the "keep your cards close to your chest" bullshit the media were pushing last year. No one believes that any more.
The government can't form a plan that the majority of them don't consider a dud. When brinkmanship forces them to make the difficult decisions, the chance that most of the public consider their plan a dud is pretty damn high… then what?
Being a member of the EU is better than the “Norway option” which is a total dogs breakfast. WTO option is my preference and aside from that pretty much anything is better than being a member.
Being a member of the EU is better than the “Norway option” which is a total dogs breakfast.
Agree. Customs arrangements are woeful.
pretty much anything is better than being a member
I'm sure you can picture a "bespoke deal" that you consider binds the UK to closely to its largest trading partner… with no control over how that partner transforms itself in future.
How about some concrète solutions ?
Like for Northern Ireland.
Look. The Remainiacs want a bad outcome so they can 1) say we told you so 2) try and get Brexit reversed
As for the car buying example its more like telling the salesman you are buying the car come what may and at any price of his choosing
IMHO we will get the best free trade deal with the EU if we make a clean break and trade under WTO for a while for a bit
Look. The Remainiacs want a bad outcome so they can 1) say we told you so 2) try and get Brexit reversed
…
IMHO we will get the best free trade deal with the EU if we make a clean break and trade under WTO for a while for a bit
So, Jamba, your "good outcome" is to Leave with no deal… and then start working on an FTA from a position you view as strength. In that case, what is the "bad outcome" you claim "remainiacs" want?
You want a very different outcome to many people that voted Leave. Yes Jamba? Multiple conflicting alternatives to membership are still in play… is there one that, in your opinion, would win the support of the public when compared to continuing membership? I haven't seen much to suggest that there is one… the politicians leading our two main parties obviously don't think they've identified one yet.
I’m not sure why you’re all bothering.
Jamby is yet to back up a single point of his with fact (other than with graphs that don’t cover the time period in question or that support the argument against his position).
Ninfan simply trolls for a reaction.
THM quite happily lies about the content of a post just above his own, then goes silent when called out on it.
All three deliberately derail discussion with misrepresentation of facts that are at best tangential to the point at hand.
If they could agree on what they want… as Brexit cheerleaders… that might be informative… it might even be something we could reluctantly get behind as well.
If they could agree on what they want… as Brexit cheerleaders… that might be informative… it might even be something we could reluctantly get behind as well.
We have agreed, that we all want to leave the EU.
its the one thing that you lot have spent 18 months trying to argue we shouldn’t be allowed to do.
If the remainers had spent less time shuffling places between screaming, calling us names and burying their heads in the sant we could have had a meaningful discussion about agreeing on an outcome that respected the will of the majority (ie. to leave the EU) but in a manner that retained some of, what you felt to be, the advantages of membership via a future agreement.
instead you’ve wasted any goodwill you might have had by spending 18 months calling us names and trying to ignore the outcome of the referendum.
It was your own unwillingness to talk sense that means the “extreme brexiteers” as you put it ended up negotiating the outcome.
your loss
Oh zoky you are so unkind. Do you know how much effort it takes to fit into to the rest of the discussion 😢
point of order kelvin - I am a remainer, not a Brexshiteer. So you can make stuff up about other things but I would prefer you not to misrepresent my position. Is that okay my old china - little less time with silly gimmicks and a bit more with the truth?
Talking of truth, how about those who cannot accept democratic votes give up making stuff up for Lent? There’s a thought
40 days of honesty - I know it’s hard and we can leave the main guy out as the religious overtones might just push him over the edge, so can the rest of you manage it?
only 40 days and then back to making what they hell (oops) you like up after that....
LOL at ninfan blaming the remainers...
Anyway one more try - any solution to the NI border? I'll be honest - I don't have a clue how to make it work so please share your solution.
Edited - I probably shouldn't be rude.
You are not alone AD - aren’t you amazed that the EU let it pass with a fudge?
I mean it’s not as though they don’t look after peripheral members is it?
No solution? Sshh, you don’t tell, we don’t tell. It’s the way we do things. Remember those funny Maaatricht Criteria?!? Same idea....
@Ninfan, try following the key back room people in the Leave campaign(s) on twitter… they disagree with each other more than I possible could disagree with them, even if I tried. Several have had to delete there accounts, because the LeaveOnLeave vitriol was getting so bad. The idea that it is people who want to keep retaining EU membership on the table are the ones preventing some kind of consensus on what we might replace membership with, is laughable.
And @teamhurtmore, you are a Brexit cheerleader… the fact you think it isn't the best course of action hasn't dampened your fervour for it over the last year or so.
I don't disagree THM - I really hope we do come up with a solution that actually works without giving an excuse for people to start blowing stuff up!
So do I AD. So do I. More importantly I think the Uk and Irish governments get it too Not sure about the Europeans
Two hours to go kelvin. Enjoy the pancakes in the meantime, then no more porky pies for 40 days. Can you do it?
Tell you what… why don't those of you that feel we absolutely must leave at all cost, agree amougst yourselves what you want… it's entirely risk free… you're not the government. When you have reached consensus, and a plan, ask the rest of us to back it… depending what you come up with, you might be surprised.
Good luck getting that **** of a troll to talk about your options plainly Leavers… have fun! Come back to us once you have something for us to look at.
@Ninfan : please explain how leaving the EU work in practice ?
if you find an answer , you tell the government .
Why don’t those of you that feel we absolutely must leave at all cost, agree amougst yourselves what you want
We have, we’ve agreed that we want to leave the EU
This has been explained to you on several occasions but you still keep asking people to tell you what leavers are agreed on. I really don’t see why the concept of people being agreed on a desire to leave the EU is so difficult for you to conceptualise, is is some form of mental block?
explain how leaving the EU work in practice
It appears to be fairly simple, there is a process laid out in Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty that means that two years after giving notice of our intention to leave, our EU membership ceases, unless we agree an extended transition period.
again, this appears to be well understood by most people, and exactly what the government have been doing. Why is it’s so very difficult for STW remainers to understand (bearing in mind how remainers keep telling us that they are so much better educated than leavers, you have to wonder why so many of them appear appear to be so very stupid)
WTO option is my preference and aside from that pretty much anything is better than being a member.
At what point would you feel that the government has failed what you were looking for when voting out?
Has anyone thought of Gibraltar lately? Who thinks it is going to be collateral damage?
pops in look around sees its the same as last week
leaves
Seriously at this point Brexit means Brexit, it's red white and blue with red lines, it's got to happen otherwise all those people who wanted something they don't understand will get upset and maybe choke on their kippers.
For most we could probably send out a letter saying we have left, maybe put it on a bus and it would keep them happy, they will still blame the EU for everything that is wrong, complain about things and be happy doing it.
Has anyone thought of Gibraltar lately? Who thinks it is going to be collateral damage?
There appears to be complete ignorance the implications for a portion of the UK (i.e. NI) that has in the past taken to trying to settle disputes with bombs and automatic weapons. I seriously doubt Gibraltar will cross any Brexy's mind until the point when the Spanish rock up at the gates demanding we surrender.
Then, of course, that will all be the EU's fault too
Based on posting history Zulu11 personally doesn't want foreigners in Britain. Thats his reason for leaving.
OK Ninfan, article 50 has been triggered but how does it work in Northern Ireland ?
The premise given by a few on here and many who voted leave has shifted recently from an economic to a an "other reasons" position as the reality of the economic consequences has started to materialise.
Give it a few months and no doubt it will become "it was never about the money" which makes the swivel eyed happy and the poor folks can continue to "justify" their vote.
As I have stated before - i no longer give a **** for the poor folks (i used to and should considering my political views) sad fact is lessons need to be learned the very hard way.
Me and my family are reasonably well protected and it will have to get very bad before we feel any significant pain - I have been there before from 79 to 85 without my current level of "protection" it is not pleasant.
As I said back up this thread taking the moral (questionable) high ground doesn't pay the bills.
However here's a question - removing my right to free movement in the EU is that a removal of my human rights..... if the inhouse Barrack Room Lawyers would like to give a view that would be great.
So Boris Johnson is setting out an idea of a "liberal" brexit. Which of course, is entirely possible.
But is it every likely to happen?
Has he used any words to define that? Im assuming just another meaningless soundbite like bespoke deal
ninfan - I hope for your sake that you’re just trolling because otherwise someday you’ll read that last post back and wonder why on earth you wrote it.
You lot wasted any good will you had with “your we won you last get over it” mantra, your enemies of the people, traitors, and saboteurs headlines and (while you all know individually what you voted for and what leaving the EU means) your inability to agree collectively.
We’re tired of waiting for you lot to sort yourselves out. The majority who voted 2 years ago backed Brexit (that they collectively either didn’t know what it was, or have forgotten) by the narrowest of margins, but the majority for sometime now wish to remain (July last year was the last time leave were ahead I think).
Time to put up or shut up. Sort the problem or admit you can’t and stop messing the British people around.
And do it soon enough that there’s some negotiating time left.
Useless Brexies.
Wow IGM that’s a bit unlike you
if you are sick and tired - look to Europe
they set the agenda, they set the three delaying conditions which they finally fudged
we know that there are contradictions on both sides, that require compromises. These centre on trade and then the test stems from there. The EU has deliberately stalled on trade in an effort to back UK in a corner but this is backfiring despite Barnierd pretence at solidarity.
Clarity is not determined in London. It only emerges when trade is thrashed out by both parties. Anyone delaying that should be the target of your ire.
if you are sick and tired – look to Europe
they set the agenda, they set the three delaying conditions which they finally fudged
we know that there are contradictions on both sides, that require compromises. These centre on trade and then the test stems from there. The EU has deliberately stalled on trade in an effort to back UK in a corner but this is backfiring despite Barnierd pretence at solidarity.
If only somebody had pointed out that this would happen, if only people had known the UK would be in the little chair for the negotiations, if only we could have seen this coming....
I told you several times but you guys wanted to pin the blame in the wrong place
except for the little chair bit
the EU set the agenda and the terms.
Sorry the blame lies with the EU for the UK having unrealistic demands, being completely unprepared for the negotiations, having not prepared any of the relevant reports and analysis needed or looked at the legal positions of what it is trying to do?
Don't forget that this Red White and Blue Brexit will just be Red once comrade Corbyn gets in.
Do you really know what your vote means?
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">As I have stated before – i no longer give a **** for the poor folks (i used to and should considering my political views) sad fact is lessons need to be learned the very hard way.</span>
+1 to that. If factory workers in Sunderland want to shit their own bed then that's their problem, dont expect me to get in with them or clear it up for them.
Frankly that property in portugal option looks more attractive by the day.
+1 to that. If factory workers in Sunderland want to shit their own bed then that’s their problem, dont expect me to get in with them or clear it up for them.
Shame the tax contribution funds things like the NHS which impacts us all.
THM - it doesn’t help the UK’s negotiating position that the Brexies are still pursuing a path guaranteed to divide the UK population, and indeed is turning people slowly against Brexit.
That just ensures a bad outcome.
If you didn’t think these people (and I’m referring to the Brexy leaders here) were idiots before, then they have proven it time and again since June 2016.
They are dragging this country down.
But hey, they won, so let’s support them in their attempts to trash the UK.
But hey, they won, so let’s support them in their attempts to trash the UK.
That's the spirit!
Let me put it another way.
I am still livid with the Brexies - a bunch of wreckers who see the cost of everything and the value of nothing and are hell bent on wrecking the way of life this country has enjoyed for nothing other than ideological reasons.
We’d be well shot of those folk.
Borris the great unifier will give a speech today.
No mention of compromises, just the usual bluster.
If the government really wanted to unify the country, now would be a time for honesty.
Instead the brexiters are doubling down on the lies (great example of Mogg yesterday caught out bullshitting about tariffs on coffee from the 3rd world)
Sadly with Johnson on the ticket, there's no hope of that
The man that wanted Turkey in the EU may yet surprise us.