Forum menu
What do you expect mol?
Not sure what I expected, but I'd have hoped for a long series of debates, discussions and public engagement on how our country should be going forward.
What we actually got was a small number of dubiously qualified people making it up in private. The fates of 65m people are at stake here. This isn't just some party policy.
Well we had a referendum and a vote in parliament - what do you want. For our representatives to take soundings at each and every step of the negotiation process. Could this be a new role for Tony Bliar - he new a thing about focus groups etc?
what do you want
I said what I want. Public debate and engagement. Not too much to ask of a democracy is it?
How about a cross party brexit department with executive power?
If I were PM I'd create one and defer to it on everything. This is beyond party politics.
Assuming that you know a lot about import-export are you suggesting that people in this area are not busy preparing? That would be very odd
I've got a mate who works in a major government dept who will be enormously effected by Brexit
In true government fashion they've got a lot of highly paid consultants in, and taken on lots of staff to cope with the massively increased workload. All existing staff have been told there is basically nothing else on the agenda other than working on Brexit-related nonsense like duplicating EU systems
Theres only one slight problem....
As Mr Barnier has pointed out, and as even the most casual observer can see.... nobody has got a *ing clue what it is the government actually want, where it wants to go, or even the vaguest idea about what exactly it is they're meant to be working towards. The whole thing is just rudderless and drifting, and about to ground itself on a beach.
And the clock ticks on with still no leadership or direction from this shambolic government
Private companies trying to prepare will be facing exactly the same problem... WTF is it that this bunch of idiots actually want? Where is the final destination?
Nobody has got the remotest clue. Least of all anyone in the cabinet.
My mate is getting the * out of dodge, as he doesn't want anything to do with the impending car crash, and is completely convinced, having seen it first-hand, that the economic fallout from this is going to absolutely catastrophic
are you suggesting that people in this area are not busy preparing?
No one has suggested any such thing, of course.
Now… when does CDS need to be in place by? When is it currently predicted to be in use? How firm is the end date for it completely replacing CHIEF? What happens to supply chains if we Leave the SM&CU before it is in place? Is it just additional cost? Or additional delays? Or a complete stop in trade for some goods?
Everyone needs to plan, and make changes, but they don't know what they are planning for, or when for. And, unlike FS, the mitigation required isn't just about having the option to move some key staff to another jurisdiction.
So are we deprived of public debate??
Has the great British public had a direct say?
Have they been given an opportunity to vote in a GE where all parties made their positions on brexit clear - at least in terms of the quaintly old fashioned notion of respecting the result of a referendum?
Have our representatives had the opportunity to vote on A50?
Thats q a lot delivered in the name of democracy - blimey even those you previously argued (I think) we’re ill equipped to participate, had s vote
versus we had all of the above but it’s still not fair and we are going to reject it all - and you dare to use the word democracy in the same breath 😳
Clear?!? There's that word again… in an age of constructive ambiguity.
Well kelvin let’s see. I said that quite a lot of people were busy preparing to which you replied that I knew nothing about import-export. Ergo, you must be suggesting the opposite of me. Which is very odd. Very odd indeed especially since your subsequent post seems to indicate that quite a lot of prep is required. More than fin services apparently.
Lets hope they are not doing what you say, otherwise they will be up the proverbial gum tree
Ok kelvin - you tell me what the Tory and Labour positions were ahead of the last GE?
which parties said they would respect the vote - if any?
which parties said they would not - if any?
how did each one do?
Is there a point to this ramble?
It's not all rosy in the EU poor Merckel (Merkel?) is having to do a May and get her team in.
Does anyone here think the EU is going to last ? Should we wait till it comes crashing down and then adjust to the inevitable .
I know nothing about flying a space shuttle. I also know that you know nothing about it either, THM. I'd like to bet I know more about import/export than you having done it with both EU countries and the US. British companies really don't want the same hassle as dealing with the US of A with 27 more countries but that's where you're heading without membership of the customs union. For each EU state it'll just be one more none EU state to deal with, for British companies it'll be as many lots of paperwork and declarations as the number of EU states they deal with for as many transactions they make. Still poisoning the thread I see, calling people remoaners and being unpleasant with anyone who disagrees with you.
So no answer. Does that mean I can adopt your phrase - are you being (what is it?) a time wasting troll?
the questions really were v easy unless there is something to hide?
Have they been given an opportunity to vote in a GE where all parties made their positions on brexit clear
No.
I still don't know what the Tories' position is, even after they won. Or Labour for that matter.
You are arguing that everything is decided and sorted, even though you KNOW it isn't. I really don't understand your position at all THM. You unequivocally state that which is obvious and don't mention that which we need to know.
I'm sure you've heard of the story of two balloonists lost in fog. They descend to just above an office car park and shout down to a chap leaving the building,
"Where are we?"
The chap responds "You're in a balloon!" The one balloonist then says to his colleague,
"Ah, I know where we are now, just land here we're near home".
"But how do you know?"
"That guy gave an an answer that was factually correct but gave us no useful information at all. I therefore conclude he's THM from Singletrack, and I know he works in the City so that's where we are. I know how to get home from here."
What people are saying Hurty is that trying to ‘plan for the future’ in the present political environment, with cabinet ministers making up freelance policy on the hoof, and providing endlessly contradictory statements by the day, is like getting the map out to plan a route, but some people don’t know where they want to go, and the others are randomly shouting different destinations at opposite ends of the country
its a total ****ing shambles
No Ed but thanks for returning with your false accusations.
I could quote both manifestos mol but fear that would be a waste of time. You seem to prefer a state of denial. I have not argued what you claim either. On the contrary I have stated there both sides have laid out contradictory positions from which they will both compromise and the we don’t know where the point of compromise will be.
Binns. Then they shouldn’t be running businesses. We know the worse case scenario. We know the best scenario. And we know that the tesult will be somewhere in between. So hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Is “Borid” an amalgamation of Boris and Horrid, Jamba?
Strangely apt
Aaaah.... I hadn’t realised it was so simple.
you did forget the other option....
**** off to somewhere less backward with a government that knows it’s arse from its elbow
i’m sure those particular wheels are well in motion
Leading Tory Brexiteer Peter Bone is in channel 4 news right now, proving that along with a number of his colleagues, he hasn’t got the first clue how business (or reality) actually functions
they’re living on Planet Penis
Which gov would that be?
It takes some impressive chutzpah for THM to pretend that he thinks we had a GE in which the major parties made their position clear, when a year on there is open warfare within the Tory cabinet and the Labour Party is entirely MIA.
The only thing that’s crystal clear is that none of them has a ****ing clue and they haven’t progressed beyond the headless chicken act.
Does anyone here think the EU is going to last ?
PhilXX1975 - Actually yes. They have that peculiarly British trait of mixing gun boat diplomacy (figuratively of course) and muddling through in just the right measure to survive for a very long time.
They actually kind of remind me of us when we had an empire - not certain that’s a good thing but definitely better to be inside doing that outside being done to.
Ok captain - are you suggesting that the Tories and Labour were not clear that Brexit vote - the democratic one - was not going to be respected?
Perhaps you are also suggesting that when old Jezza was ruling out a second referendum that he was only pulling our plonkers and shouldn’t be believed ?
that really is impressive chutzpah
Labour certainly not clear. Ruled out a second referendum but not remaining in (members of 😉) the EU.
Very careful language.
So hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
You mean, reorganise supply chains, production and distribution to [b]prepare[/b] for UK&rEU trade to come to a standstill on April Fools Day next year, because the UK gov IT systems and infrastructure aren't ready for a no deal… but our government lands us with one (a scenario that doesn't even need a vote in parliament now)… and then [b]hope[/b] that is all wasted disruption and investment, because it is close to business as usual come the end of the A50 period (at least for a year or so)? Some companies are indeed making moves that like… but for others… if "the best" scenario occurs, and they thrown all their money and resources on "the worst", then it's game over.
Of course, for some, the no deal scenario next April IS the best outcome. Some of those people have huge sway over what might happen. So should companies plan, invest, spend, and prepare for that outcome?
Jezza has a policy on Brexit?
THM last time I asked you this you said that the Tories were looking for 'the best possible deal'. That says absolutely bloody nothing. I think it is you who are in denial about the issues. See Binners' story for information. You seem to think it's all going well. Maybe, but no-one actually knows where it's going, or what those in charge even want. Is it right that these things are decided in the dark?
welcome to Brexit britain .
No I don’t. Just that it is going better than “people who want to remain and also complain a lot while making things up” mistakenly complain
ditto the economy ...
Ask the Eu mol. They are running the agenda
Speaking as a diabetic and horrible person, he didn't die because of a £150 fine or DPD, he died because he didn't handle his chronic medical condition, for a very long time. It is very sad, and it happens quite a lot because one day of bad control doesn't feel like a big deal but years of bad control kills you horribly. But even I draw the line at making the obvious take back control joke though.
This doesn't make PM Theresa May or Brexit any less terrible an idea though.
Ask the Eu mol. They are running the agenda
It's not for the EU to set UK government policy THM… have you been sharing glasses with the real Brexit fans? Who triggered A50 before correctly preparing, or forming a plan for what we want to replace EU membership with?
he died because he didn’t handle his chronic medical condition
Hold up! Agree that this is the wrong thread, as this has nothing to do with Brexit… but he didn't handle his condition partly because he couldn't afford to attend his clinics, and that was because sick and medical leave is a thing of the past for him and many like him. That absolutely is an issue for his "employers", and government regulation.
No it’s isnt. That’s why I didnt say it was. You might want to have a think about this making stuff up problem. It does waste so much time
No I haven’t
The same people who knew that the very lengthy - if you are to be believed - process cannot start before A50 was triggered. Still the bloody Tories were behind old Jezza who wanted to trigger it straight away
You can prepare for a negotiation before you put yourself in the situation where a successful negotiation is essential. Discussions WITH THE EU couldn't begin before the A50 period, but the current discussions INSIDE THE UK could have occurred before we started the clock ticking.
And don't pretend the government has finished its internal discussion, and "made it clear" to everyone what they are seeking, and are broadly supported by "the people"… we're all in the dark… and the country doesn't even look ready to enter the A50 period… never mind exit it…
THM, you seem to think "respect the vote" is a complete, coherent and credible plan. I have a clue for you. It isn't.
Anyone want a link to the killfile? Why you guys continue to engage with THM is beyond me. His " I'm clever than you " shtick is looking more and ridiculous as it becomes even more obvious he doesn't have a clue -even about financial services where he pretends he works
There is still not even a decision from May and co of what they want as an endpoint - just meaningless platitudes and wishful thinking saying they will have outcomes that clearly are impossible. The way they are going now I think in march when the EU have to ratify the withdrawal agreement the EU will refuse to ratify it as the NI border is still not solved and indeed remains insoluble.
Hasn't that been pushed to October now TJ?
Of course, six months might be enough for EU politicians to get ready for April Fools Day, but everyone else needs to know something far sooner.
I love Merkel mocking may.
Merkel - tell me what you want
May - make me an offer
Merkel - tell me what you want etc etc
When none of the buffoons in the tory party can yet actually formulate a policy that is agreed between them how can they have a negotiation?
The tories are bluffing Europe with an off suit 7 & 3, and Europe knows it.
<span style="font-size: 12.8px;"> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/29/angela-merkel-theresa-may-never-tells-wants-brexit/</span>
I haven’t. Kelvin
This little problem is becoming chronic now.
But if you don’t know what they are seeking you could read the papers, check the gov website or listen to the news.
Lol TJ.
we dont really know because she does not she is getting the best deal she can that will stop the tories imploding and her getting the sackif you don’t know what they are seeking
no one, not her not you,not I knows what this will really look like.
Still its good to see how much faith you have in politicians to deliver on their promises as you used to be scathing of them and if it was say the SNP saying this I imagine your tone would be slightly less reverential
We are going on holiday to the best and warmest destination. Where to I just told you [ as people shout multiple destinations and routes in the background] is essentially where we are.
The tories themselves admit there is no destination decided yet - they are going to have a meeting soon to decide.
that is of course when they will really start to fall out with themselves as 1) what many of hem say they want is simply not possible and 2) what is possible will not satisfy anyone but the rabid outies
"Hold up! Agree that this is the wrong thread, as this has nothing to do with Brexit… but he didn’t handle his condition partly because he couldn’t afford to attend his clinics"
The clinics discussed in the article aren't everyday diabetic care, they're where you end up after you've been killing yourself for many years. And many years of being told "you will die young if you carry on like this" by every doctor you speak to.
Like I say, I'm sympathetic to how people get there but it's a bit like smoking heavily for 50 years, getting diagnosed with cancer, keeping on smoking then saying you died because you couldn't get the day off to go to the doctor. He's not a good cause celebre.