[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

OK, then.

Here's another example from 'today'. Everyone in our office who voted to remain actually bothered to read campaign literature from both sides. Everyone who voted to leave said they hadn't read any of the campaign literature.

Admittedly this is a small sample, so you can attack me on the grounds of poor statistical rigour if you like.

Commers when using brackets 😉

Here's another example from 'today'. Everyone in our office who voted to remain actually bothered to read campaign literature from both sides. Everyone who voted to leave said they hadn't read any of the campaign literature.

It was pointless reading the campaign literature. The only sources for the really story were from independent experts, which were promptly ignored.

Agreed on the commas. I suppose you deliberately spelt it wrong to entice me, you tease.

😉 😉

It was pointless reading the campaign literature. The only sources for the really story were from independent experts, which were promptly ignored.

Reading it would have demonstrated more care about making an informed choice, though.

Willful ignorance pisses me off.

So prior to the vote why did you and your relevant colleagues not engage them with you reading and share that reading????????? Of course not all learn by reading so chatting and talking would have allowed you the chance to impart your research

No the spelling was my dyslexia - apologies

So prior to the vote why did you and your relevant colleagues not engage them with you reading and share that reading????????? Of course not all learn by reading so chatting and talking would have allowed you the chance to impart your research

We've done that one. It is because I would have been dismissed as condescending, superior etc.

Can we just switch this around for a minute so I can ask you a question?

What do you think the correlation between IQ and the leave/remain polarity is? Be honest now.

It would be an even more stark correlation if it was academic qualifications versus leave/remain, but I think we all know that that is not truly fair as there is more to intelligence than the ability to demonstrate it in an exam hall.

Peter Hitchens is gloating over the discomfiture of the "Elites" and is looking forward to new poltical parties rising from the populist bases, all of which (it seems to me from the various TV voxpops that I've seen) seem to consist of unpleasant people of a mixture of stripe complaining about foriegners. Some even said that they voted "leave" but didn't know why. I get the feeling that the Body Politic is terminally sick.

Do you think it might time to search for an alternative to the various forms of social functionality that we've tried up to now, including considering that Democracy may have had it's day?

Does this make London less attractive to Oil Sheiks and Russian Oligarchs?

A weak pound makes London more attractive for foreign investors. So currently as far as buying luxury properties and leaving them to sit empty it's more attractive. If your oligarchs and sheiks were looking for a European base from which to conduct business then any added complications that might* be imposed would make London less attractive.

* I say 'might' as nobody had a plan for this massively important thing that we all voted on, but in reality I expect there will be some added complications to cross border business deals.

No the spelling was my dyslexia - apologies

No need to apologise for that. IQ is not affected by dyslexia (which is why I was very careful not to use academic qualifications or job level).

Do you think it might time to search for an alternative to the various forms of social functionality that we've tried up to now, including considering that Democracy may have had it's day?

I'm happy to throw my hat in the ring as a benevolent dictator. 1st ruling, no more new wheel standards.

Because they just wouldn't listen and dismiss me (like all the economic experts) as condescending and superior.

Well they may be thick but they are exceptionally good judges of character.

Do you think it might time to search for an alternative to the various forms of social functionality that we've tried up to now, including considering that Democracy may have had it's day?

Would much rather see conviction politicians as opposed to power hungry loons who've infested British Government for far too long.

You would have been dismissed implies you did not try and assumed and pre guessed the response. Which is my point and an agreement with your point about the education of the leave vote. Those with the view of remain at all levels did not do enough to ensure all voters fully understood the implications. Politicians get knocked back all the time as looking after own interest. More difficult to argue that when your social equivalent neighbours are "talking" to you

[url= https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154507398902448&id=739817447 ]Oh. Good. Grief.[/url]

Do you think it might time to search for an alternative to the various forms of social functionality that we've tried up to now, including considering that Democracy may have had it's day?

How about a power of 12 pyramid.
1xPrime Minster elected by
12xCabinet Ministers elected by
144 MP elected by
1728 divisional representatives elected by
20736 local councillors elected by
248832 part time ward leaders elected by
2985984 part-time community leaders each elected by
constituents.

All via internet & refreshed every-week. Anyone losing a sub drops down a level and the loss of influence ripples right up to the top

Work was decidedly grim today, a lot of European workers and students worried about their future and teams who are dependant on EU grants obviously very stressed.
The whole institute was depressed

Fk knows where we will be in a few years time

The scale of the negotiations are mind boggling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36622842

How about a power of 12 pyramid...All via internet

I find it quite ironic that with this vote we have really destabilised europe, knocked billions off their stocks, hit the euro and being a stronger member of the EU weakened them. But for the next 2 years we still have financial obligations (but after article 50 no voting rights) and be bailing out the countries that we have put in more turmoil.

That should get the leave voters a little hot under the collar.

Thats the point, it's pretty hard to bull-sh*t 144 people for an extended period of time.

When will companies that pay tax in Luxembourg on profits made in UK have to start paying tax in UK?

So 18 hours or so in, where are you

1, Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Mostly depression with quite a lot of anger still bubbling away.
Skipped the bargaining stage. What's done is done.

Anger.

Started with 5 - thanks to early run. Then slight 2 and 4 together (lunchtime/afternoon) and now 5.

All compressed. An extraordinary day with many unforeseen consequences.

Acceptance. Let's get on with the task of being a successful nation

chapeau* @mefty

What do you think the correlation between IQ and the leave/remain polarity is? Be honest now.

We've already done that - somebody (JY?) posted a link a few pages ago correlating voting against various measures including intelligence. However correlation does not imply causation and nor does that mean all Leave voters are thick.

What exactly do you think the benefit is to throwing around these insults?

*can I still use that term today?

Despair all day.

True - time to take control. Here we go.....

What a bunch of sore frigging losers you lot are. I am embarrassed to be a member on here having read all of the negative posts!

Get over it and start to embrace the challenges that lay ahead. You can all sit on this thread moaning and groaning how the so called 'thick, racist and uneducated masses' won the vote or you can ... maybe sign the joke petition for a 2nd referendum.

Well they may be thick but they are exceptionally good judges of character.

Maybe.

Aaaaaaaaaaargh. I'm just bloody annoyed. We have just voted to cut off our nose to spite our face, and done so despite a widely predicted negative impact on this country of ours, which all the leave voters profess to be so bothered about.

We have voted for uncertainty. Uncertainty spooks the markets. The markets react and we all suffer as a result.

I don't particularly like the idea that we are just flotsam on the ocean of the international markets, but [u]we are[/u]. What are we going to do? Start building autobahns?

Look at what has happened to the FTSE and sterling today. Tell me how that is good news. In what parellel universe is losing 8% of the value of your currency overnight a good thing?

I hope by some miracle this turns out ok, but I am pretty sure it won't. I am dismayed that the majority of this country have set the economy back by a good two years and I believe they have done so without thinking it through properly.

I am going to leave it there, I have probably let myself down a bit with the vitriol, but I despair of the electorate.

Leaving the EU is a massive mistake, and one that we are going to spend decades feeling the consequences of. Do you trust Johnson, Gove et al to be able to sort this out?

And just to complete my day, who crawls out from under his rock onto Nick Robinsons show......Ed Balls!!!

Urrrrghhh!!!!

What a bunch of sore frigging losers you lot are. I am embarrassed to be a member on here having read all of the negative posts!

That's quite a coincidence

But true, we will get on with it - that is except the Turkeys who are well and truly plucked.

Get over it and start to embrace the challenges that lay ahead

20% of the grants at our work probably won't be getting renewed
My wife was made redundant at xmas
Pardon me for not being full of boundless excitement at this brave new world

Acceptance. Let's get on with the task of being a successful nation

If we sit around we will be toast. Whilst the markets reacted it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I was expecting. The BoE did not have to inject emergency funds and as far as I am aware the stock market did not suspend trading.

I understand people are shocked, but the only option is acceptance.

Makes me chuckle - it's all about taking back control apparently but we've already lost loads I.e. EU telling us to pack our bags & not hang around, no PM and an undemocratic vote for next PM, Scottish referendum on the cards so UK uncertainty, potential job losses been announced already....and no real plan to speak of....but one bonus..nice to know LePenn (?) agrees with the majority of us.... 😀

Swings between 4 and 5. Currently at 5 as am sat next to my near 1 year old son and frankly the country can go to hell before it comes before him

I know I said I'd leave it........but.

That's what's required. The head of Legal & General stated the exact same thing. We can collective moan and keep telling ourselves we are doomed or we can be positive and grab the challenge with 2 hands and go for it.
If we sit around we will be toast. Whilst the markets reacted it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I was expecting. The BoE did not have to inject emergency funds and as far as I am aware the stock market did not suspend trading.

I understand people are shocked, but the only option is acceptance.

Can you please specify what that means 'we' need to do? I'm going to need something a bit more than wishful thinking here. I'm all for this wonderful new world where Britain is the envy of every other country, I just need someone to fill a few of the gaps on the 'roadmap'.

I'm in, it's just me and most of the economic experts who need to know where we've got the equations so wrong.

Come on dannyh, as Gove said, we're tired of experts.

Wax up that surfboard and get ready to surf the tsunami of free trade to the promised land.

Can you please specify what that means 'we' need to do? I'm going to need something a bit more than wishful thinking here. I'm all for this wonderful new world where Britain is the envy of every other country, I just need someone to fill a few of the gaps on the 'roadmap'.

I'm in, it's just me and most of the economic experts who need to know where we've got the equations so wrong.

Basically, 2 options.

1) Apply for a visa to another country and leave.
2) Accept it and try and be positive. There is little else you can do and it will be much better for your sanity if you try and remain optimistic.

[img] ?oh=5ea94b46456eafa3b6e08076ac48ac76&oe=57F4037F[/img]

) 1) Apply for a visa to another country and leave.
2) Accept it and try and be positive. There is little else you can do and it will be much better for your sanity if you try and remain

1) Have mooted this a few times, but my wife's family are very close and I like that the kids are part of a close family.

2) So blind optimism is the plan, then?

[img] [/img]

I'm getting to like this blind optimism. All we have to do is disable the shields and blow up their big gun.

Works in Hollywood and outer space, must work here.

Thank goodness.

Am going with option 1 🙂

[img] [/img]

I'm really warming to it now. This guy knows his onions.

Basically, 2 options.
1) Apply for a visa to another country and leave.
2) Accept it and try and be positive. There is little else you can do and it will be much better for your sanity if you try and remain optimistic.

I have another option. My local MP campaigned for leave. The constituency voted remain. I'm going to try and make his life difficult until we get another MP. Why? Because leaving is going to make my life difficult and I'm feeling petty.

The country (in terms of those who voted) was split down the middle - a 2% swing is not much of a mandate, and it's only a third of those eligible to vote.

Why shouldn't I kick out against something I don't agree with. Fight it all the way until we're actually out.

And if you're embarrassed to be here - leave, that's your stock answer to things you don't like isn't it?

RichPenny - Member
Am going with option 1

Me too.

DC is a spineless cretin. He made the mess an should stick around and take the heat while it gets sorted.

I had slightly more faith in the public, obviously they are more bigoted xenophobes than I had anticipated.

And if you're embarrassed to be here - leave, that's your stock answer to things you don't like isn't it?

Before I do though, I'll give you a quote I read on a wall in a hospice.

"Worrying is like rocking in a chair. It gives you something to do, but get's you no where".

I know it's of little consolation for those who didn't want this, but the choices I listed earlier are the only options on the table.

Obviously not possible but love to know the numbers who say I am off on this and other post's and are still here in 5-10-15 years time.

I'm going to have to link to this as it is so spot-on it is tangy like sherbet.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/britain-in-historic-vote-that-only-a-handful-of-****s-wanted-in-the-first-place-20160623109722 ]Daily Mash sums it up in no time[/url]

I particularly like the bit about realising the EU isn't perfect.......

I really hope this pans out ok, but if it does you can tie my tits together with candy floss.

I know it's of little consolation for those who didn't want this, but the choices I listed earlier are the only options on the table

Yeah, but they didn't ****ing have to be.

Anyway I'm moving onto my second bottle of blind optimism and watching Tommy Cannon trying to cook on the telly using mascarpone that he thinks is whipped cream.

All is not lost.

Get over it and start to embrace the challenges that lay ahead.

By doing what? What have you done today to embrace the challenges?

I'm reaching acceptance but what is there I can practically do right now, other than talk about it as we are doing? (Already fixed the mortgage).

I should have mentioned that it is fairly amusing (in a very sick way) that someone on here is now using quotes from a wall of a hospice to try to make me feel better.

Just to qualify that, I hate to think of the circumstances in which anyone should be visiting a hospice, so it is not a cheap shot, I promise.

I just think it is very ironic.

[img] [/img]

Yeah, but they didn't **** have to be.

Flanagaj - not worrying, not depressed. Disappointed, yes, but mainly thinking about exacting revenge on people who are messing up the country I love. Whatever happens I will find it very difficult to forgive the leavers - and I'm not inclined to try at the moment.
It may take me some time and trust me you are so far down the list you have nothing to worry about - not in your arrogance that you would anyway.

I should have mentioned that it is fairly amusing (in a very sick way) that someone on here is now using quotes from a wall of a hospice to try to make me feel better.

Just to qualify that, I hate to think of the circumstances in which anyone should be visiting a hospice, so it is not a cheap shot, I promise.

I'd be pointing your frustration at the political establishment in Europe instead of the electorate who voted to leave. The EU has been blindly following a path that hasn't been working. Anti EU sentiment is rife across Europe and yet they were unwilling to offer any real reforms. Juncker is a complete *&$% he's got his head so far up his own arse regarding the EU project. You just have to listen to the TV interview earlier where he was asked whether the UK's decision marks the end of the EU project. He replies no and walks out the room.

Not without merit, that comment.

However, does pressing the nuclear button then hoping for the best constitute a reasonable course of action?

We were in a position to influence the EU whilst not being bound to the worst part of it (I.e. The Euro).

I wish the EU had remained a minimalist venture to ensure France and Germany didn't start taking pot shots at each other again and a loosely defined trading bloc. It didn't. That's a shame.

It still doesn't mean leaving was the best option, though.

It may take me some time and trust me you are so far down the list you have nothing to worry about

I'll send you a postcard Genesis 🙂

It was my father by the way dying of lung cancer

Last time I was in a hospice was with my much loved uncle, also lung cancer - he died on Chrsitmas Day and ever since the day has not been the same on my Mum's side of the family.

I didn't mean 'amusing' in a side-splitting way, I meant as in bitterly ironic, as I hope I made clear.

Cheap shots of a personal nature are not my way of doing things.

Flanagaj - unless your one of the pro-quitting MPs then my idea of revenge is probably pretty tame. I am after all one of them lefty middle class types.

1 for me, applied for jobs in finland and barcalona already.

do like the irony of the outies holding the union jack.

And the backtracking gathers pace:

From earlier on the Big Decision, Conservative MEP and Leave campaigner Dan Hannan said there was no promise to reduce immigration by leaving the European Union.

He told the programme that Vote Leave had "never said there is going to be some radical decline, that we're going to shut the door".

Mr Hannan said what people wanted was to know the government was in charge of how many people were coming in.

"We promised to control migration even that will take time - I don't want to build up expectations but that will happen," he said.

He said people are "not like three-year-olds" and they understand that nothing will change immediately.

I'm going to enjoy the moment when free movement + schengen is announced as the great new independence deal! 😆

He said people are "not like three-year-olds" and they understand that nothing will change immediately.

Of course, the exact opposite of what VL were saying up until yesterday!! Lessons learned...

What little faith I had in the logical intelligence of the English and Welsh populace was wiped out in a few short hours this morning. I was literally speechless in my incredulity at the outcome of the vote.

Not even "the experts" knew what would happen to this country in the event of an exit vote, yet the people we pay and vote in to make these decisions in an informed manner for us decided to offload their responsibility onto the common man. Look where it got them, and us.

Looking at the positives again - no need for UKIP anymore - silver linings and all...

Caught the end of Any Question on Radio - amazed at how one side was struggling so much - perhaps its the Lib Dem syndrome. Suddenly life changes when you are holding the reins and rhetoric (BS) is not enough. Like Hannan, Grayling has no answer on immigration and ironically cheering the Irish border situation - hmm.....how does that fit then???

This always cheers me up when I'm feeling peeved.

[img] [/img]

The hottest weather girl on TV.

Well I've started by inviting my anti-Europe MP to resign on the grounds his constituency voted to stay.

It's a start.

torsoinalake - Member
And the backtracking gathers pace:

From earlier on the Big Decision, Conservative MEP and Leave campaigner Dan Hannan said there was no promise to reduce immigration by leaving the European Union.
He told the programme that Vote Leave had "never said there is going to be some radical decline, that we're going to shut the door".

Mr Hannan said what people wanted was to know the government was in charge of how many people were coming in.

"We promised to control migration even that will take time - I don't want to build up expectations but that will happen," he said.

He said people are "not like three-year-olds" and they understand that nothing will change immediately.

My exasperation-o-meter has just red lined.

I'm putting this iPad down now. Stating the bleeding obvious and meeting nothing but unfounded and desperate faux optimism is pissing me off.

It's not a flounce, I just know what is good for me.

I'm going to leave you with a nice football video from YouTube. I hope the leavers get the subliminal message.

Fancy starting a new country THM?

Well I've started by inviting my anti-Europe MP to resign on the grounds his constituency voted to stay.

It's a start

Oh, that reminds me. Has anyone seen Gideon or is he hiding in his bedroom?

Good work on the Lucy pic Flan..... Certainly perked me up!

ATG 😀

Border contol #takecontrol will be simple: Scottish, N Irish, London and educated

Tempting (and I am a Brummie by birth!!) 😉

A couple of things I can’t get my head around:
1. Immigration seemed to be Leave’s trump card. Why didn’t Remain tackle it head on and explain to people who had genuine [to them], but perhaps misplaced, concerns, that it wasn’t the cause of their issues.
Just seen a couple of people on the news with stories of how they couldn’t get a house, while immigrants got one. Why didn’t the campaigners/local MP’s address these issues in a big and repetitive way. Get the right message across.
All I heard when anyone raised immigration as an issue on Question Time and the like, was the daft line that the NHS can’t manage without immigrants – I didn’t hear anyone saying stop all doctors and nurses coming from overseas.
People, who might have been ‘less educated’ or old, were just called racist, bigoted, ignorant, etc..
We have reaped what we’ve sown.

2. We are all doing the English down on these threads, but I’m reading that the EU leaders are now saying that this is a wake-up call, and they need to change to stop others leaving. Make it more accountable and fair. No more treaties and rules, etc. So it’s not just the English who are thinking this way. Staying in the EU is not seen as a no-brainer in a number of other countries. They want to 'make an example' of the UK to dissuade others from trying the same - Doesn't reek of confidence in your own product.
Let's go a little easier on the English [and Welsh]?

Also listened to Any Questions, like teamHM says the most depressing thing is the combo of back-tracking and no plan whatsoever. Euro President saying it has to go quickly for stability, got a feeling they'll push that to make it unpleasant to put off Fr-exit, N-exit etc.
Really just bollocks, spoken by bollock-heads to people who believe any old bollocks and peddled by papers who love bollocks.

And the backtracking gathers pace:

From earlier on the Big Decision, Conservative MEP and Leave campaigner Dan Hannan said there was no promise to reduce immigration by leaving the European Union.

He told the programme that Vote Leave had "never said there is going to be some radical decline, that we're going to shut the door".

Mr Hannan said what people wanted was to know the government was in charge of how many people were coming in.

"We promised to control migration even that will take time - I don't want to build up expectations but that will happen," he said.

He said people are "not like three-year-olds" and they understand that nothing will change immediately.