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I was one of the “just give them the rights” ones.
No moral high ground though.
Given nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, and I fully expected the EU to reciprocate, it just didn’t seem worth wasting negotiating time over.
Easy one, get it off the table, move on. Why May failed to do that and made some half arsed gesture I do not know.
As for anti-English racism, yes it exists.
I (originally Glaswegian), my English wife, my Scots best man and his Scots wife were in Pizza Corolla in Glasgow one night when something was said. All I can say is don’t make racist comments around my best man’s wife is you don’t want to look very foolish.
Said Scots anti-English racism was condemned and then some immediately and in the moment by an intelligent and fairly forceful Scots lass. In Glasgow, around closing time, on a Saturday night.
No one gave any more hassle to my wife. I didn’t need to, or get a chance to, react before it was all done.
Yep, we should have granted full rights to citizens here. The EU would have then done the same. I have no idea why you claim they would not have.
The EU offered full rights for all citizens. May and co refused.
More utter bollox
Many chose to argue that the UK should grant rights to EU citizens despite not having the same rights guaranteed by the EU. This was repeated extensively under the guise of "moral high ground" and the faux argument about "bargaining chips."
No "faux" about it since
What it actually meant that they were happy for the UK government not to prioritise respecting your rights. You were less important.
is self-evidently pure BS. The two things don't have to be related.
IGM as should be the case a reciprocal announcement was made this week as we know. Hence people who prefer untruths have to post links back to March. Incredbile in every sense.
And at the end of all this, we have got to the point that was declared (by some) impossible to get to. "Nonsense" the failed rallying cry. Unsurprisingly they remain 99% wrong.. Compromise made, grown ups and very clever people involved, behind the scenes agreements to the fore too. And even our barely competent PM comes out of the week well. Incredible too.
Many chose to argue that the UK should grant rights to EU citizens despite not having the same rights guaranteed by the EU. This was repeated extensively under the guise of "moral high ground" and the faux argument about "bargaining chips."
So what has happened is we got an agreement and then seconds later the high power team stated that we could walk away if we were not happy with anything that comes next. So nothing set in stone there. There was an option to take these things off the table before the start but the UK felt it didn't have enough the bargain/threaten with.
I only pop into this thread occasionally and no one replies to my posts as everyone is to involved in the personal vendettas! Lol which is fine...
yeah, frankly i'd be grateful not to have to wade through nearly three pages of 'he said, she said' in catching up, but it seems that this is what passes for grown up discussion on this thread.
what someone said on a train, and what happened in rotherham, has f all to do with this. seriously, sort your shit out.
a few people need to step away from the keyboard and have a look at themselves. it's pretty ****ing sad TBH.
anyway, i replied to your post. 😉
And even our barely competent PM comes out of the week well. Incredible too.
Pro-European Conservatives are threatening to inflict Theresa May’s first Commons’ defeat on her Brexit bill in a last-ditch bid to have a “meaningful” vote on the terms and conditions of the UK’s exit package." and that's people on the same "team" as her 🙂
"
Hard to avoid Del, but you are right.
OH dear Mike and the purveyors of incorrect infor were claiming a few pages back that the 3 initial issues were now settled. Were they telling porkies again ?
I fear you may be right.
But glad that the UK government is honouring its obligations to our citizens. Good for them.
Kilo never underestimate the determination of the undemocrats.
This is worth a read, I think. For both sides of the camp.
https://orderofthecoif.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/irrelevant-england-and-the-thick-brexiteer/
Someome sort the trolling out.
Thread dead 'till they do.
I am democratic remainer not a leaver.
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.
Oh, also,
Forty thousand. (65 posts ago. Well, 66 now.)
Jesus Christ you economists are hard work to understand, after work drinks at your place would leave me with brain ache 😉
So the use of the words undemocratic, undemocrats, remoaner etc are these done to offend or belittle people? If not what's the reason for picking these terms and using them in a condescending way?
I am glad that you have finally chosen to accept a wonderful gift then cougar, sorry if that name is no longer appropriate . Quite a miraculous conversion - are you the hound or the hare now 😉
Nice link by the way - close to my position
[quote=kelvin ]Someome sort this troll out.
Thread dead 'till they do.
THIS
Occasionally actual debate breaks out but too many people waste their time feeding
I think we all agree there are good people on both sides but only side got the thickos and the racists :winkThis is worth a read, I think. For both sides of the camp.
I can see why some folk voted Brexit but it is not going to achieve what they hope it will.
They're true
Cougar - Moderator
I am democratic remainer not a leaver.
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.POSTED 4 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Bluff called!?
[img] https://assets-auto.rbl.ms/02a8ed8c1e04b6b0874991c51d4ccb0e08392dcaeb39aba751ffd00b86cf2962 [/img]
Be nice if the UK government gave me better voting rights than a convicted prisoner given that my only crime is not having a UK address.
no offence but you left at some point after you leave its not your business
My uncle has lived in the US since the 60's his kids were raised they he has retired there. What has it got to do with him or you what the UK do ?
Personally I think 10 years is long enough
THe EU was different though as it did potentially impact on those and may well have been a special case
The people who live on this island archipelago should have a vote IMO. those who don't live here don't get a say
Why worry Ed? Given so many want the vote to be ignored you have probably saved yourself some time. Imagine if you had voted and your vote was ignored?
Is your Uncle now a US citizen, Junkyard ?
I could go and live in the US and still vote in French elections, there's a sort of constituency and in every presidential election there's footage of Frenc New Yorkers voting.
US and French citizens never become second class citizens with reduced rights just because they live somewhere else. US ex-pats continue to pay US taxes if they pay less elsewhere than they would in the US. A excellent example other countries should follow in my opinion. Comply with all obligations benefit from all rights for as long as you are a citizen.
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.
Bless me Cougar for I have sinned It's been xx years since my last confession. In fact it's so long ago that Harold Wilson was prime minister
And I'm Pope John Paul the third.
If only there was a thread on this forum that discussed the EU referendum before it happened upon which THM had posted his arguments for remaining.
Re: the cartoon, I am somewhat surprised that people who were upset by "watermelon" smile are comfortable with the portrayal of Africans in that cartoon, but then they are probably comfortable with the portrayal of Jewish people with hooked noses.
THM doesn't dislike the Scottish, he is rather complimentary about them for rejecting independence, I am not sure he has a great deal of time for Scottish Nationalists but he says no worse about them than people say about Tories on here.
teamhurtmore - Member
Why worry Ed? Given so many want the vote to be ignored you have probably saved yourself some time. Imagine if you had voted and your vote was ignored?
Time to stop misrepresentation of what people are arguing and campaigning for. Personally i want exactly what was promised, an advisory referendum leading to a period of discussion where some facts could be presented. Add in the opportunity to review progress or lack of and the state of the deal before rejecting or accepting it with the final option to remain in the eu. That is not undemocratic.
Some reasonable points, some brown nosing and some alt facts mefty.
I have ever made a comment that was sexist when I insult May and I am sure you would be all over me, rightly so , if I did
Personally i want exactly what was promised, an advisory referendum leading to a period of discussion where some facts could be presented.
Who promised that?
THM doesn't dislike the Scottish, he is rather complimentary about them for rejecting independence, I am not sure he has a great deal of time for Scottish Nationalists but he says no worse about them than people say about Tories on here.
funny way of showing it with continual sneering and posting of racist comments. He might like the Brigadoon image but the real Scotland - he actively hates it from his posting because we reject his political philosophy. classic hatred of the uppity scots who don't know their place.
Re: the cartoon, I am somewhat surprised that people who were upset by "watermelon" smile are comfortable with the portrayal of Africans in that cartoon, but then they are probably comfortable with the portrayal of Jewish people with hooked noses.
As I said I see the lips as a bit dubious but not actively racist. The Watermelon thing is denigratory. I am willing to listen to opinion. Is that what you see as racist? the big lips?
Good link cougar, the brexies still ranting about betrayal by May & co and how sunlit uplands are just around the corner are making me all stereotypical about leavers again tho, I really shouldn't engage with them!
continual sneering and posting of racist comments. He might like the Brigadoon image but the real Scotland - he actively hates it from his posting because we reject his political philosophy. classic hatred of the uppity scots who don't know their place.
I thought you couldn't see his posts because you had killfiled him?
THM doesn't dislike the Scottish
funny way of showing it with continual sneering
To be fair TJ, I think you're being oversensitive here.
THM sneers at everyone who doesn't agree with him. And that's a broad church.
Cougar - Moderator
This is worth a read, I think. For both sides of the camp.https://orderofthecoif.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/irrelevant-england-and-the-thick-brexiteer/
A very enlightening article there Cougar. Doesn't change my attitude to "Brexit" - (god I hate that word) but does make we wish that we had some politicians who could put the case so eloquently instead of spouting jingoistic bollox in the hope of furthering their career.
perhaps he has a memory and people quote the outrageous posters trolly posters on here so its easy to see who is saying what
mikewsmithan advisory referendum leading to a period of discussion where some facts could be presented. Add in the opportunity to review progress or lack of and the state of the deal before rejecting or accepting it with the final option to remain in the eu. That is not undemocratic.
All the above is entirely logical and would truly do something to bring a bit of unity to which ever path we head in.
I suspect it's so obvious that the very idea of it will be dismissed out of hand by politicians in the main.
For now anyway...
No election has ever been won by one vote in either Britain or France. I went through piles of documents in a university library to confirm that about 35 years ago and I don't think it's changed. A difference of three votes was the closest if I recall correctly.
So objectively the odds of your vote making a difference are tiny. However, in France I consider the ability to vote is a right I value and voting a duty, for me at least. Perhaps it's part of French culture where citizens' "droits et devoirs" are notions central to republican values. There's a feelng of being a part of a system rather than a pawn in it.
I travel on a French passport because if ever I get myself in a mess I have the utmost confidence in my fellow citizens from the local baker to President doing their utmost to help. Boris and the British ruling elite are more likely to get me deeper into trouble by telling the foreigners I'm a journalist (and therefore probably a spy) or simply leaving me to rot unless Amnesty can do something.
Despite baing a British citizen with no criminal record I have no vote. The Brexiters have also been doing their level best to wipe out my ability to claim a UK pension based on al the contribution I've made in Europe should I ever choose to retire in England (unlikely :wink:). Real issues that concern me directly and I have no vote.
NNNNNNOOOOOOO it's more of that STW anti religious bias from the mods again 😉And that's a broad church.
PS good joke
Fair point cougar. Its a nastier tone to me tho than the rest of his sneering unless he has changed his tune or got worse on other threads. He sneers at the scots as a people. He did get banned for racist posts relating to scots
Ninfan - from the scots referendum debate and from people quoting his posts
Thanks Mefty. I made my case for remaining here regularly.
Cougar - I do try to keep up with your example. But you set a high standard
Nice lies TJ. I am a Scotophile. Always have been that's why I am anti those who like to inflict self harm on such a wonderful country on the basis of lies and deceipt. Giving a model for the Brexshiteers to follow.
That's not to mention those English who go up there and own multiple properties which pushes people on to the street homeless while pretending to be Scottish
you re a scotophile in much the same way Trump would claim he is one
Cougar - I do try to keep up with your example. But you set a high standard
QED.