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The NHS has just been saved 😉
Any Leave voters care to hit me up with some positives?
Not a leave voter, but there is no reason to panic - markets have real uncertainty now - we are still in the very earliest stages of coming to terms with a surprising decision. No significant response from Europe yet and that will be incredibly important.
Junkyard - lazarusThe NHS has just been saved
Great news! It'll be in great shape to welcome the millions of sclerotic retirees heading home from countries with which no longer have ereciprocal healthcare arrangements.
Property prices in Scotland set to go through the roof?
maxtorque - MemberThere is no situation i can see where the poor are "better off" due to leaving the EU?
you're right of course.
but a vote for remain was a vote for the status quo, and the status quo doesn't work for lots of people.
i'm trying to convince myself that many people who voted 'leave' did so in a vain attempt to re-shuffle the deck, so to speak.
Have we blamed Thatcher yet ??
for as much as I disliked MrsT she'd never had been stupid enough to call a referendum.
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Got up and did a Basil Faulty.
"I don't know. Perhaps it's just a bad dream. Hang on, I'll check."
(Bangs head vicioudly on desktop)
"Nope. Looks like we're stuck with it."
Don't know if this has been picked up yet, but...
Had the world's 5th biggest economy ...
The UK is no longer the world's 5th largest economy. The £ has fallen so far that France has overtaken us. #EUref
Edit: sorry I see we have - and it'll probably change two or three times during the day
Why is it stupid to call a referendum? We live in a democracy. If anything we should have more of them. Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Not calling one is undemocratic.
mefty +1
I didn't vote out but this doesn't have to be the doom situation some are predicting. Lets see how Europe react but I do think there are possibly opportunities outside of the EU for instance greater flexibility to trade with other countries.
[quote=StefMcDef ]
Any Leave voters care to hit me up with some positives?
Never mind all the recession nonsense, there will be no more brown people!
. If anything we should have more of them. Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean it is a bad idea
Tell us again in 5 years
Why is it stupid to call a referendum? We live in a democracy. If anything we should have more of them. Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Not calling one is undemocratic.
Good plan. We'll start off with one on capital punishment. Then another on nucleaar power. And why not let the public decide on the BoE interest rate? I mean - it's democracy, maaaaan !!
the lower your qualification the ore likely you were to vote leave and the better educated you were the more likely you were to vote remain
I have not seen the evidence or stats Junkyard, but experience talking to people from different backgrounds has showed me it is either immigration or economic votes.
Immigration won.
We adapt and move on.
I'm out of here. Never read such a load of doom and gloom. Decision made so except it and let's move forward. Assuming the whole 52% who voted out are closet racists and thick is damn insulting!
If anything we should have more of them.
Crisps for breakfast?
It's stupid to ask people a question on a subject about which they know nothing. And then spend three months lying to them to try and get them to do what you want. And even more stupid to gamble a country's financial security on it.
Good to see those highly articulate and educated remain supporters called Boris scum and a **** on tv.
Farage claiming they 'won it without a bullet being fired'
😯
Immigration won as successive governments have done nothing about the rise in the population and the concerns people have. Rightly or wrongly you have to address and deal with people concerns, not just say it is very complicated and sweep it under the carpet. If they had built enough schools, doctors surgeries, dentists, houses, this wouldn't have happened.I don't actually believe 50% of the population don't like Europeans.
Just seen The Trump say that he thinks the result is a great thing...
Phew. Everything's OK after all then.
i'm trying to convince myself that many people who voted 'leave' did so in a vain attempt to re-shuffle the deck, so to speak.
In that case they are just plain thick as pigshit if they don't understand that tactical voting doesn't work in a straight choice vote.
Just seen The Trump say that he thinks the result is a great thing...
We live in a democracy.
Yes we do, a Parliamentary Democracy, imperfect as it is, it comes with checks and balances, this is just coin toss government.
Great to hear from some work mates that their reasons for voting out had nothing to do with the European Union and won't change now we've voted out. They seemed surprised when I told them this.
Molgrips
It's stupid to ask people a question on a subject about which they know nothing. And then spend three months lying to them to try and get them to do what you want. And even more stupid to gamble a country's financial security on it.
But no one knows what will happen in the future even the experts on either side. Look at all the economists that screwed up during the financial crisis. Also being in or out of the EU isn't all just about trade and business.
They seem to be being proved right with the short term shock predictions though, or haven't you seen the share prices and exchange rate?
Leave assured everyone that the wouldn't be any impact, and it was all Project Fear, where in actual fact its Project Reality
FTSE100 higher than it was this time last week - Not sure why the beeb keeps on talking about billions being wiped off the markets (in the last 24hrs maybe, but not at all in the scheme of things)
i'm trying to convince myself that many people who voted 'leave' did so in a vain attempt to re-shuffle the deck, so to speak.
There was a guy on TV this morning. Voted leave, didn't think it would happen now Cameron has resigned he's quite worried....wtf.
woody74 - Member
If they had built enough schools, doctors surgeries, dentists, houses, this wouldn't have happened.I don't actually believe 50% of the population don't like Europeans.
what he said.
i'm not pissed of with the way people voted, how can i be? we're all just people, trying to make decisions as best we can.
i am pissed off with, for one thing, the Labour party, for more-or-less gifting these issues to groups like UKIP. If you're worried about 'a thing', you'll end up listening to the only politicians prepared to even mention it.
FTSE100 higher than it was this time last week
Why do you think it fell last week?
Lets all have a look at the ftse100 and see what happened ever since the tories got a majority and it was confirmed we'd be having the referendum
In reality I bet we don't leave the the EU anyway. We might in name but in practice I bet very little change and we continue to be members of various EU bodies. It will end up as some hybrid membership as there is no way that all the MPs are going to give up on the EU idea when so many wanted to remain in.
FTSE100 higher than it was this time last week - Not sure why the beeb keeps on talking about billions being wiped off the markets (in the last 24hrs maybe, but not at all in the scheme of things)
It seems to have helped that the BOE has set aside £250 billion just in case of this eventuality, be interesting to see what the septics make of it all.
@DannyH "Whether you're outside the tent pissing in, or inside pissing out - just make sure you're in the majority, or you'll drown."
With all this pissing in and out of tents my suggestion would be to Get the hell out of Glastonbury
They seem to be being proved right with the short term shock predictions though, or haven't you seen the share prices and exchange rate?
No one has been proved right or wrong, sudden instability in the markets is irrelevant, give it a month or year then we'll have a much better idea.
Also right now French and German shares are performing even worse, than UK.
Look at all the economists that screwed up during the financial crisis
This line keeps getting trotted out.
The big difference is no one said "hey, on June 23rd 2007 we're going to put the world into a recession" whereas we did know this referendum was coming, and as such various scenarios could be looked at
Also right now French and German shares are performing even worse, than UK.
yay our biggest export market is tanking too
FTSE spent most of Jan, Feb, March below 6000 and it is now above 6000. It's hardly a disaster. Also the pound is now stronger against the Euro than it was back in early April.
There is much ignorance and misreporting going on. Of course if you look at the numbers over the last 24Hrs it is a big of a drop given the expectation of a remain vote, but in the scheme of things it is just noise.
Also right now French and German shares are performing even worse, than UK.
should have done a "Carney"!
richc - MemberJust seen The Trump say that he thinks the result is a great thing...
Hurrah from the blackshirts!
The Daily Mail will be chuffed.
In reality I bet we don't leave the the EU anyway. We might in name but in practice I bet very little change and we continue to be members of various EU bodies. It will end up as some hybrid membership as there is no way that all the MPs are going to give up on the EU idea when so many wanted to remain in.
I hope your right but in my view it's a pebble to start an avalanche. The hybrid union might be true/might work but once the dust settles the rest of Europe is either going to be a basket case or shut off from the UK to protect its integrity.
Is the EU really going to give up £10bn. Even when half of that comes back to us are they really going to give up £5bn and not try and keep us in in some way. £5bn pays for a lot of french farmers.
We need a trade deal with the EU. In order to get one we'll end up paying subscription fees (like Norway) and accepting freedom of movement (Like Norway) - sound about right?
We'll pay less subscription than now, but we won't get a rebate or at mental to farmers or support for poor areas of the country. So we won't save much cash.
Human rights will remain as now because that's not EU
So overall we'll pay about the same, avoid the working time directive, not have cash for farmers and the economically backward areas of the U.K. (which will go to a large extent on subscriptions), and still have freedom of movement. Oh, and not get our say (amongst other countries' say) in setting the rules.
Does that sound about right?
My suspicion is that while both sides will want a deal, we'll need it more than they do.
£5bn pays for a lot of french farmers.
TBF the French put in more than they get back. It'll hit countries like Spain, Portugal, Greece, and th eold eastern block like Poland, who all get more back than they put in (based on 2014 figures).
and still have freedom of movement
Depends on how domestic politics goes i guess - if a party is voted for by coffin dodgers and knuckle draggers you can kick out the fureners and then say reciprocal actions "prove" you were right.
For Christ sake, is [b]NO [/b]history taught any-more?
not have cash for farmers
This is one area I find puzzling, if the farmers allegedly get so much cash from the EU, how come the bulk of them were overwhelming OUT?
they hate paperwork.
We need a trade deal with the EU. In order to get one we'll end up paying subscription fees (like Norway) and accepting freedom of movement (Like Norway) - sound about right?
not necessarily at all - and free movement just puts us back in the same situation, so I am guessing not.
If we have to pay more through WTO rules then that will have to be it.
But the EU countries will be paying the same tarifs to trade with us.
The issues come with continueing to build stuff to the EU regulations in order to sell there.
But other companies, like JML..., do a shed load of trade around the world without issue.
riddoch - Member150,000 Conservative party members get to choose the next PM, I'm glad we've gotten away from that undemocratic EU. FFS
IIRC Conservatives MPS nominate the candidates and then whittle it down to just 2. It is then put to the Tory Party faithful to choose from those 2.
For those who are concerned imo Boris Johnson isn't particularly popular with Tory MPs, I can't see them throwing their weight behind him.
Unless presumably he really makes them laugh by doing funny things with his hair and stuttering a lot. It's hard not to want to vote for a man that does that.
woody74 - Member
If they had built enough schools, doctors surgeries, dentists, houses, this wouldn't have happened..
who is this "They"??? This is the problem imo, people blaming everyone but themselves! There is no "they". The government could have built more schools etc, as you suggest, [b]if[/b] they had more money. And that money, like it or not, comes from the Taxes that you and i pay, based on what we earn. So if [b]WE[/b] had worked harder and earn't more (and claimed less benefits) then there would have been more of those schools and things you seem to want!
For those who are concerned imo Boris Johnson isn't particularly popular with Tory MPs, I can't see them throwing their weight behind him.
This has historically been my view - not so sure now - as posted on other thread. Tories like winners.
At least our Northern friends will have to stop London-bashing for a while
Well the STWers won't. The Referendum was won in the North with working class voters supporting Leave. The result has gone very much against central London's wishes
Boris is hugely popular in the Tory party
YoKaiser - Memberi'm trying to convince myself that many people who voted 'leave' did so in a vain attempt to re-shuffle the deck, so to speak.
There was a guy on TV this morning. Voted leave, didn't think it would happen now Cameron has resigned he's quite worried....wtf
Oh I saw that Guy too, he really took the biscuit - honestly if you didn't see it, there's been no embelishment above - he genuniuely said "I'm in disbielf really, I voted Leave, but I didn't think it would happen, now it has and David Cameron has resigned and I'm really worried".
There are no words.
can we nominate the entire country for the Darwain Awards?
There is an awful lot of scaremongering still going on, the markets are reacting because of the number/amount 'bet' on remain. I voted to stay in but, obviously lost. Now we have to make the most of it. Now we shall truly see who was telling the truth or was the most accurate, this will take a few years not hours from now imo
Boris is hugely popular in the Tory party
But the issue, as rightly identified by Ernie, is how popular is he in the parliamentary party.
I just asked an older fella at work why he chose Leave. His response is to support a better opportunity for his grand kids to purchase their own property as it will bring an end to foreign investment.
He seemed less happy to speak to me when I pointed out that China, the middle east, and to a large extent, Russia - aren't in the EU.
Is their a petition for mandatory euthanasia yet? The Logan Reform?
Hats off to Ernie, he is the most consistent and reasoned supporter of the left on here and we can see now how clearly he was a leading indicator for the Referendum voting
was he a politico or just a man on the street?
I just spoke to someone who said that while they voted leave, they don't want any of Farage, Gove or BoJo near the negotiations.
So who do they want?
"I don't know, i hadn't thought that far ahead"
What, like the immediate aftermath of your vote is 'that far ahead'
Another head smashing into desk happening here.
My only hope is that we've never won a major football tournament since we've been in the EU.
😆Is their a petition for mandatory euthanasia yet? The Logan Reform?
Apparently those under 50 voted quite strongly to remain. And younger more strongly.
Given those currently over 50 will naturally become a smaller proportion of the population over time, the question arises - is this age related or generation related?
If the former then as people age they will become more anti-Europe and the overall percentage for-against remains the same.
But if it's generational, then I predict more problems ahead as the pro-Europe constituency grows.
Boris is hugely popular in the Tory party
He's not popular in London right now. I think he would be lynched if most of the population of central London had their way. After being their (very popular) mayor for so long they all feel quite let down.
Oh I saw that Guy too, he really took the biscuit - honestly if you didn't see it, there's been no embelishment above - he genuniuely said "I'm in disbielf really, I voted Leave, but I didn't think it would happen, now it has and David Cameron has resigned and I'm really worried".There are no words.
Saw that too. I think there is a lot of people who just wanted to "make a point" or didn't realise what leaving actually means who are now realising they have made a horrible mistake.
If 16M people demand it can we force another referendum in 6 months? We might get a lot of people realising they made a mistake. If not then we can say the country has definitely decided.
This is one area I find puzzling, if the farmers allegedly get so much cash from the EU, how come the bulk of them were overwhelming OUT?
The assumption that the UK government will match the CAP subsidy levels to protect such an important industry.
You know, like they do with steel and coal.
Just saw this in The Guardian - I want to believe... :/
“The closeness of the result should encourage EU leaders to think pragmatically, arriving at a solution where Britain is out of the political union, but retains the ties that are of mutual benefit; and creates a two speed Europe for those wanting to stay out of the Eurozone and its inevitable move towards closer political union. As has been said many times, the Germans have no appetite to exclude us from the single market – only yesterday its industry chief, Markus Kerber, noted the foolishness of imposing trade barriers.”
m assuming the STW demographic is from the South East and Scotland
STW poll was 80/20 Remain and nowhere in the country was that supportive of IN. Even Scotland was "only" 60/40.
EU is now cr@pping itself as it knows the whole project is at risk. They are talking tough - no favours etc - in order to send a signal to other waverers.
Where are Boris and Farage to calm down the markets? Still Trump thinks it's a good thing. I wonder what Putin and "our Glorious Leader" thinks?
I bet IS are loving this. Political instability, and billions been wiped off the markets, and the west slowly creeps to the right. There's a good novel in there somewhere.
You know, like they do with steel and coal.
Farming and fisheries are important UK industries we must strengthen and rebuild. Coal is dead everywhere in Europe and rightly so. Steel is more cheaply produced by countires who focus on coal (and stuff the environment) so its hard to justify the costs of supporting it
jambalaya - Member
Im assuming the STW demographic is from the South East and Scotland
STW poll was 80/20 Remain and nowhere in the country was that supportive of IN. Even Scotland was "only" 60/40.
more of an education and age bias?
I wonder what Putin thinks
my cousin is a teacher in Russia, he reckons the politicians are falling over themselves to mock cameron and the EU
theres already talk of the oligarchs eyeing up London property on the back of a weak pound
Interesting point about referendums here:
[url= http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/the-problems-with-referendums-in-general-and-the-brexit-one-in-particular/ ]The problems with referendums[/url]
I voted out and I'm over the moon today - Hard cheese on all you remainers but you lost fair and square.
I hate your doom mongering, we can't survive without the EU what will we do, oh vote for the children's future - Nonsense.
We'll be fine, probably a few bumps in the road for a bit but you guys need to have a bit more faith in the people around you, the UK is a great nation not some limping backwater that needs an EU crutch. Try and be more positive, the EEC was a good idea, the united states of Europe not so much, it's that simple.
Should have let the 16-18's vote.
Apparently those under 50 voted quite strongly to remain. And younger more strongly.
I think people's votes should be in proportion to their life expectancy, to reflect the extent to which they will be affected by choices that are made. So a female at the age of 18, gets one vote.
A male 70 year old smoker gets 1/100th of a vote.
The problem is that I know some of the people around me. I've had to deal with a number of politicians across different parties and there isn't one I would wish to have negotiating anything on my behalf. I can only hope that the civil servants who will be doing the bulk of the work are leagues ahead of their political masters.We'll be fine, probably a few bumps in the road for a bit but you guys need to have a bit more faith in the people around you
not some limping backwater that needs a crutch
London doesn't need a crutch. No so rosy for the rest tho eh?
Maybe rejig the country's finances without the Brent crude an see how "great" we are?
I can only hope that the civil servants who will be doing the bulk of the work are leagues ahead of their political masters.
The stories I hear from civil servants that do a lot of negotiating is they are hopelessly outnumbered and under resourced when making deals, as we have cut and cut the civil service to the point they can't work effectively.
To quote Talking Heads (I might as well, it seems that the country will listen to idiots, so a cool pop group will do as well):
And you may ask yourself
Am I right?...Am I wrong?
And you may say to yourself
My God!...What have I done?!