[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

9) a PM promoted beyond her competence and surrounded by nutters and rebels and facing an oppo who hold all the cards (apparently), with a weak minority government, and bullies who want to squeeze her into a corner, might, just might, pull of a result.

What were the odds on that!!

I do hope our bulldog negotiating tactics won’t scare off potential foreign investors.

teamhurtmore - Member
9) a PM promoted beyond her competence and surrounded by nutters and rebels and facing an oppo who hold all the cards (apparently), with a weak minority government, and bullies who want to squeeze her into a corner, might, just might, pull of a result.

What were the odds on that!!

I think the reality is, everyone, including the brexit nutters are clueless and scared about what comes next, so theyre secretly happy to let May take the lead

What were the odds on that!!

THM - You don't seriously believe that do you?

All of the evidence thus far suggests that our PM is barely competent. Granted, she's only been in office since July 2016, so I can only fall back on her career at the Home Office for an assessment of her record in government.

BBC saying now that deal wont be done today

and it looks like the agreement may have failed already...

DUP are putting the blockers on it.

Unfortunately, eighteen months of bungling and a cavalier attitude towards the causes of the Referendum result, not to mention MPs putting party before country have brought us to the point where it's conceivable that the government may fall before xmas.

The smartest thing they could do is try to form a government of national unity and postpone Brexit pending a public inquiry, however the hard-right of the party wouldn't countenance that. I think they'd rather hand the poisoned chalice to Labour and watch them implode from afar.

a PM promoted beyond her competence and surrounded by nutters and rebels and facing an oppo who hold all the cards (apparently), with a weak minority government, and bullies who want to squeeze her into a corner, might, just might, pull of a result.

[img] [/img]

my 2p: there'll be a deal because EU want one and it will be on the EU's terms. the postponement is so May can run back to Dacre et al saying "look there I was being a bloody difficult woman like I promised". it's a bit of gracious face saving from Juncker is all.

Oh dear Junker belched

PJM - agreed her track record has been poor. That's why it would be quite something if she managed to pull off some kind of deal, especially with everything going on around her. Last laugh and all that....

Juncker: No deal reached on Irish border.

Scotland, Wales and London all want the same regulatory alignment deal as Northern Ireland.

They appear to be adhering to the text of the referendum ballot, which stipulated Single Market access.

Must have missed that bit on my ballot paper

The press seems to be having problems of its' own. The Daily Heil is obviously feeling the backlash by the moderate majority, as is The Sun. The Telegraph has been hollowed out to the point that journalistic staff have been cut to the bone.

Newspaper headlines are becoming increasingly shrill in a way that smacks of desperation. Sooner or later, there will be a public backlash.

Must have missed that bit on my ballot paper

[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce ]Here[/url]

We were explicitly told by many prominent politicians from the Leave camp that leaving the EU would not mean leaving the Single Market.

So, who do we think “leaked” draft wording of an agreement that suggested accepting U.K. continued EU regulations?

Phew - looks like phase 2 can commence soon. Well done the grown ups. Despite all the **** going on around then they look like to have pulled of some sensible compromises here. Shame it took so long but not easy.

Good job that remoaners who claimed none of this would be possible look like they are being proved wrong. No wonder the £ is up too!

That post aged well.

ninfan - Member
So, who do we think “leaked” draft wording of an agreement that suggested accepting U.K. continued EU regulations?

someone with a long list of political misteps & poor leadership skills desperate to get fired from a job she hates that has brought her nothing but misery ?

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ninfan - Member
So, who do we think “leaked” draft wording of an agreement that suggested accepting U.K. continued EU regulations?

Probably May?

So deal has failed I take it?

Today anyway?

How long until she reveals Freedom of Movement will continue as well?

From the Beeb:

The BBC's political editor said Mr Lamberts had said the UK was prepared to accept that Northern Ireland may remain in the EU's customs union and single market in all but name. But, she stressed, the BBC has not seen the draft document nor has it been signed off

The DUP are going to go mental....

We..the ballot paper simply asked "should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

No mention on single market

My point being that prominent members of the Leave campaign explicitly stated that we would remain part of the Single Market.

I've supplied a citation to support that assertion.

Why, you don't think that we were [i]lied to[/i] do you?

Twodogs - Member
We..the ballot paper simply asked "should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

No mention on single market

In hindsight that ballot paper was deeply flawed as this whole mess has shown.

It was never going to be as simple as a pure binary choice.

So all the UK to remain in the customs union and a raft of resignations from the cabinet? Seems as likely an outcome as any other.

I think that a personal slur

Hearing it was the DUP call that sunk today's chances of a deal - Foster held her press conf, 20 mins later May leaves talks with Juncker to call her, goes back into the room and the deal is off

So the DUP have scuppered this deal already. Inevitable and just as I said eeks ago. any deal on NI that satisfies the DUP will not satisfy Dublin or the EU and vice versa

In hindsight that ballot paper was deeply flawed as this whole mess has shown.

It was never going to be as simple as a pure binary choice.

Absolutely...and all I'm doing is pointing out an inaccuracy in a statement.

I posted that senior members of the Leave camp stated on numerous occasions that we would remain in the single market in event of a leave vote. I supplied a citation to support my statement.

There was ample opportunity to present a counter argument without resorting to personal insult. I stand by that.

I seem to have provoked a strong response by that statement.

salad_dodger - Member
So all the UK to remain in the customs union and a raft of resignations from the cabinet? Seems as likely an outcome as any other.

Possible but I think the DUP are going to be the ones truly exploding over any special status given to NI.

NI is a paradox, it can't be solved if the UK truly leave the EU unless there is a hard border which the EU won't accept. Paradox.

I've supplied a citation to support that assertion.

Which was full of lies, as proven by my own citation

pjm - leavers said anything to anybody that they thought they wanted to hear.

Funny, DUP wouldn't have been in a position to obstruct May if she hadn't called the General Election she said she wasn't going to call.

Which was full of lies

Scotland, Wales and London all want the same regulatory alignment deal as Northern Ireland.

so are we leaving the EU on a county by county basis now?

You're sure that Daniel Hannan never stated that -excuse the paraphrasing- "No one is threatening our place in the single market?

You did not say "the citation is incorrect". You called me a liar.

Difference.

FWIW I've reported the post.

Ninfan is an expert witness on this subject

now now Junkyard. If Open Britain say something that is inaccurate, it means PJM is a liar. Can't you follow this simple logic? 😮

We..the ballot paper simply asked "should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

No mention on single market

Why would it? It’s pefectly clear what membership of the EU means and involves and what it doesn’t.

Does it mean continued regulatory convergence, or no regulatory divergence, or what exactly?

It’s pefectly clear what membership of the EU means and involves and what it doesn’t.

I respectfully, and with referencing your tendencies toward truths or falsehoods, disagree.

This statement of mine is supported by the postings of one THM who is quite clear that the EU is changing and we do not know what it will become.

I’m playing of course. What you meant was it’s clear what leaving the EU means.

I disagree with that too as you would expect.

It can mean many things - otherwise a bespoke deal would not be possible.

I’ve just been emailed by a moderator to say that aparrently calling someone a liar, even when they aren’t telling the truth, is a personal insult

“'Liar' No personal insults thanks”

So, in that case, I’ll politely revise my assessment of PJM1974 to “potentially inadvertent purveyor of misrepresentation and fake news”

Since he stated that

Here

We were explicitly told by many prominent politicians from the Leave camp that leaving the EU would not mean leaving the Single Market.

Despite the fact that that the citation he linked to as proof of his claim was thoroughly dissected and rebuffed as misrepresentation of the facts here:

I’m now going to remind you all that [b]the UK sends £350 million a week to the EU[/b], and if anyone says thats not true then I’ll act like a big wet girl and cry to the moderators about it.

Why would it? It’s pefectly clear what membership of the EU means and involves and what it doesn’t.

THM - on the surface of it, that is correct. But there are non-member states who enjoy access to the single market i.e. Switzerland, Norway. It's fair to say that it's a far more complex question than anyone realised, for my part I have grave concern that the vote to leave the EU was driven chiefly by immigration with scant regard being paid to the economic benefit.

Did you, as someone who voted Remain ever imagine that the next eighteen months would prove to be a difficult for central government to reach a consensus as they've proven to be? I know that I didn't. Did any of us consider Europol, Euratom for example?

Ninfan is right of course, but I remember noting at the time of Brillo's piece that his argument hinged on what was said by MPs and MEPs [i]during the referendum campaign[/i], but said nothing of what was said before and after.

Here's BoJo on 26/06/2016:

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will [b]continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. [/b]"

And we all know about Hannan. And Cameron.....

So ninfan is factually correct. However, prominent Leave MP/MEPs making these kind of pronouncements [i]at any time [/i]mean that the possibility of turning Brexit around (as unlikely as it is anyway) are reduced, as those who don't delve deeply think that's the way its going to be. So they continue to set the tone.

How surprising is it to note that a Labour-controlled Brexit just became not only possible but likely? Strange times eh?