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Buffoons can also be liars
May’s deal is dead, the only choice now, assuming we don’t have a general election in the interim, is no deal or revoke.
Yes, there will be GE next year I hope.
That’s not Liberal demacrat policy, that’s just Vincent responding to what might happen in possible scenarios given his party aren’t in government.
Okay, that's fine as I was just trying confirm what been said because of all those different youtbue clips posted.
p/s: that's the first EVER youtbue clip I watched between Farage and Cable debate as ... 😅 A first for me.
No deal is not a choice. It’s what happens if we run out of choices.
Actually, let me elaborate on this "no deal" myth with a little example.
Currently, we are allowed to fly our planes in other countries' airspace by dint of being party to the Open Skies agreement. We have this in place via the EU as a member country. If we "just leave" without a deal, we lose this membership. Ergo, all non-domestic flights would be grounded with immediate effect.
Now, one could argue that this won't happen ("I'm sure it'll all be OK" and all that) and in all honesty it is probably a highly unlikely scenario, we'd surely negotiate some sort of agreements with other countries to replace it. But another word for "agreement" is... wait, I had it a minute ago... four letters, begins with a D...?
No deal = no planes. Planes = some form of deal.
You can't have "no deal apart from the bits we do want to keep" because that's simply a nonsense, it then becomes a deal by definition. And no amount of (excuse me) flights of fancy and wishful thinking changes this, the gammons can cry "they wouldn't let that happen to us" but this is International law and it is very much exactly what will happen regardless of how nice we hope anyone else might want to be towards us or any other form of Unicorn Thinking.
And that's just one facet of this divorce off the top of my head, there's hundreds if not thousands more.
Lots of people think they want "no deal" but very very few of them really, actually do, they simply don't (and won't) have the faintest grasp of what "no deal" would actually entail. They think it'll just hit the big red reset button and we'll wake up in the sunny uplands of 1974, but this couldn't be further from reality.
As I said,
Anyone who tells you any different is either lying or a buffoon.
Or both
Well, I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. (-:
OK, bear with me one second,
We go no deal and what happens on day one? Do we try and get a deal with the EU or is the intention to never trade with the EU again?
If the latter we screwed, the former, well the deal is there on the table anyone really think the deal will be different, tomorrow or next year?
The only change that can alter the deal is Irish reunification.
Well this is the thing.. No deal really means the break up of the UK.
Scottish independence will be next.
Is this really the rabbit hole we want to go into? This is ultimately what brexit means. It's not a British exit. Just an English one.
What is the point? I mean, what is the friggin’ point? The vote will be the same whenever she brings it back, so what is gained by delaying, except that she stays in her job a bit longer?
its the sense of duty is my guess. the maybot understands "no deal" would be an utter disaster and her successor will likely take the country down that road. She knows that there is no better deal available that is at all acceptable brexshitters and / or that the EU will stomach. So stuck she has to plough on - in her mind at least.
Having said that I think she only has days left
the deal is there on the table anyone really think the deal will be different, tomorrow or next year?
I do.
It won't be anywhere near as good as May's proposed deal, and that in itself is already worse than the deal we currently have.
If only there was some other way...
You only think she’s got days left? I doubt it. Her only ability is self-preservation. And in case you haven’t noticed, she’s bloody good at it. She’s been written off for 12 months now. She’ll have to be dragged out of Downing Street, kicking and screaming.
She’s seen off every attempt to get rid of her. And officially they can’t get rid of her until December.
I’m quite enjoying how much she’s pissing all the lunatics off 😂
They might actually have to abduct her
Just been to vote (lib Dems) and was pleased so many younger people were there, I was expecting loads of old farage supporters. My 18 yr old son said most of his mates have voted as well.
Passed the polling station on the East side of Derwent reservoir this afternoon. Wonder how many people use that one.
May’s deal is dead, the only choice now, assuming we don’t have a general election in the interim, is no deal or revoke.
Yup. A fourth reading would be farcical. A GE is unlikely, given that the Conservatives would almost certainly lose.
That’s not Liberal demacrat policy, that’s just Vincent responding to what might happen in possible scenarios given his party aren’t in government.
Non-sequitur indeed. PJM totally called you on that one
There is a clear pattern to the poster in question’s behaviour. No-one who pays the slightest bit of attention to the manifesto could make such a preposterous assertion, forcing me to conclude that it’s done on purpose.
I’m quite enjoying how much she’s pissing all the lunatics off 😂
They might actually have to abduct her
🙂
The Brexit fiasco has really shown up the damage that has been done to democracy by media control being in the hands of a few large, and mainly foreign, operators.
Nail on on the head. So the solution is to regulate the media and break the vice like grip that a few billionaires have on it, rather than disenfranchising the people who are adversely influenced by it.
Now remind me, which parties have campaigned for exactly that and taken a stand against this malign influence?
We've voted.
The Brexit fiasco has really shown up the damage that has been done to democracy by media control being in the hands of a few large, and mainly foreign, operators.
Nail on on the head. So the solution is to regulate the media and break the vice like grip that a few billionaires have on it, rather than disenfranchising the people who are adversely influenced by it.
It's not just TV and newspaper's biased reporting that's to blame. There's a huge influence from the internet with Facebook constantly feeding users more of the same with their algorithms in the effort to try and keep people on the site/app and websites like this where we generally congregate with people of a similar mind. I've just been over to Pistonheads and that's like the polar opposite of this place but very similar in that one side has been crowded out by other. I hardly ever use the forum over there and now I know why, it's not a particularly nice place. Go figure.
It's very easy when you're surrounded by people all saying the same thing to get caught up in it and these online communities either organic or artificial are polarizing and radicalizing the country in ways that the World's religions can only dream of.
scotroutes
Member
Buffoons can also be liars
Is it me, or has BoJo's taste in tie colour changed a lot recently. I thought he chose a lot more of the darker, plainer colours in past times.
David Mellor just been interviewed on BBC breakfast.
He announced he voted for Brexit "to be a nuisance" but now it was obvious that the brexiteers were lying.
Genuinely lost for words. These people deserve to rot in jail.
The self-serving mop has clearly had a new team on board for a while who are media coaching him
The main thing that they seem to have said to him is 'stop talking'
Looks like we're set for no deal now that once again the country is at the mercy of the Tory parties internal squabbles.
It looks like we're going to end up with a rabid brexiteer as PM, playing to a gallery of racist, blue-rinse old giffers, who are going to march the countries economy off a cliff to satisfy their small-minded, xenophobic, backward-gazing nationalism of less than 100,000 lunatics
Radio 4 has just come up with a great description of the leadership election: "its like Game of Thrones reimagined as the Benny Hill Show"
Whereas my prediction is that there is never going to be a no deal although I agree that the country will certainly go the wrong way for 10 years (another 10 years) until people wake up.
And in case you haven’t noticed, she’s bloody good at it. She’s been written off for 36 months now. She’ll have to be dragged out of Downing Street, kicking and screaming.
She’s seen off every attempt to get rid of her. And officially they can’t get rid of her until December.
I’m quite enjoying how much she’s pissing all the lunatics off 😂
They might actually have to abduct her
🥳🥳🥳👋
That’s almost what I was going to post, however I did change one teeny point..
Oh, and she also likes to travel to that there Europe and spend all our hard earned taxpayers money on 7* hotels and 44page expenses claim forms..
Lets not forget that the Tory’s are all technically fraudulent liars... why only the other week another Tory MP got sent to prison for fraudulent expenses claims...
🥳🤣
Well I voted last night, as did my Wife, got into work this morning and casually asked my colleagues if they had voted, depressing replies:
person 1 - early 30s: "nah, they're all a bunch of 'see you next tuesdays' so what's the point
person 2 - late 50s: "no, we're leaving so no point" (he voted leave 'to shake things up' in the ref)
person 3 - mid 30s: "yes of course!" (didn't say which way but I think he'll have gone Lib Dem)
person 4 - mid 30s: "nope, euros so no point"
person 5 - early 30s: "yup, for Farage!" (I think he meant he voted for the Brexit party, not Farage directly, but I'm not sure he knows the difference)
So from my tiny sample of youngish to middle-aged IT guys from Devon, voter apathy wins above everything else 🙁
BoJo being prime minister has got a sense of absolute inevitability now.
I was going to suggest it feels a bit like standing on the Titanic knowing there is no way you can avoid the iceberg you are now approaching, whether you steer away or not.
But actually its more like banging on a locked cockpit door, screaming as the pilot flies us into a mountain
My team at work due to the nature of our work is comprised of 16 different nationalities from Europe, there was a lot of annoyed people this morning as the French, German and Polish girls i spoke to were all refused a vote at the polling stations, despite having been resident here for a long time.
The German girl was rudely told perhaps she had time to get a flight home to vote there where she should, she has lived here 9 years and paid tax here every day she's been here and has an English husband!
Scud, if that was by the electoral officials, she should complain. Loudly and much. That's disgraceful.
And in case you haven’t noticed, she’s bloody good at it. She’s been written off for 36 months now. She’ll have to be dragged out of Downing Street, kicking and screaming.
She’s seen off every attempt to get rid of her. And officially they can’t get rid of her until December.
I’m quite enjoying how much she’s pissing all the lunatics off 😂
They might actually have to abduct her
You have to admire her
So we're out of the frying pan. Where to now?
Nowhere good, that's for sure. I
Another odd speech. She's doing that weird thing she does where she bangs on about her commitment to combatting inequality, fighting injustice and increasing social mobility. All things that have got immeasurably worse on her watch
She's clearly absolutely delusional
his morning as the French, German and Polish girls i spoke to were all refused a vote at the polling stations, despite having been resident here for a long time.
Your colleagues were perfectly entitled to vote, but......
As an EU citizen resident in the UK (except those with British, Irish, Maltese or Cypriot citizenship) wishing to vote in the European elections in the UK you obviously need to register to vote, as explained above.
But once you have done that you also need to fill in an additional form called the European Parliament voter registration form.
They obviously didn't fill in the required registration form. It's a shame but no ones fault but their own 🙁
tjagain
M
Having said that I think she only has days left
🙂
Another odd speech. She’s doing that weird thing she does where she bangs on about her commitment to combatting inequality, fighting injustice and increasing social mobility. All things that have got immeasurably worse on her watch
Mental isn't it. Completely divorced from reality
Keep up @taxi25, the blame does not live with those cheated of their vote.
https://twitter.com/electoralcommuk/status/1131559651840004096?s=21
The Conservative Party is in thrall to its local party associations, who've by all accounts been infiltrated by disaffected UKIPers hence the deselections of highly regarded MPs like Dominic Grieve et al. Unfortunately, local party associations increasing belligerence means that MPs and ministers are forced to acquiesce to the whims of what would appear to be a party membership of fewer than 100,000 people who've become wholly disconnected to wider society. With a baying mob demanding Brexit but without any clear understanding of what this actually entails, we're seeing MPs like Andrea Jenkyns bollocking on about the WTO without any ability to answer basic questions like "how many nations trade with the EU on WTO only rules?". It's no wonder that the Conservatives' vote share has collapsed, I do not believe that Boris has either the intellect, the capacity for strategic thinking or the empathy required to ensure that the party broadens it's core memebership base.
Thing is, the next leader will rock up at Brussels demanding an audience with the EU's negotiating team and will quickly learn that they cannot dictate terms - Johnson is reckless enough to put us through a No Deal, however it will be massively damaging to a lot of people's livelihoods and will ensure that the party itself will be punished severely at the polls - remember what falling out of the ERM did for the party five years later when voters who'd been through years of negative equity ensured that the Conservative Party had no majority in parliament for the next twenty years?
– remember what falling out of the ERM did for the party five years later when voters who’d been through years of negative equity ensured that the Conservative Party had no majority in parliament for the next twenty years?
The only silver lining of this sh*t show will be the destruction of the tory party.
Johnson is reckless enough to put us through a No Deal
I'm not so sure. He might think now that no deal is an option. But just like Gove, once the civil servants sit him down and soberly explain the consequences to him he will (I hope) change his mind. If there's one thing about Boris, it's that he's vain enough to not want to be forever labelled as the PM who destroyed his own country.
I take some heart that IF we end up with Boris as PM he hasn't got the numbers to push through no deal, he still needs to pass it through the Commons.
It's a huge risk, but a PM trying to push no-deal will make no-brexit more likely.
It's time Labour MPs stood up, put their house in order and offered an opposition. It's no good to win a slim lead in the polls just because the Tories are such unmitigated shit, there's a complete open goal available to open a 20 point lead.
If there’s one thing about Boris, it’s that he’s vain enough to not want to be forever labelled as the PM who destroyed his own country.
His hero Churchill helped break up the UK in the early 1920's when he deployed the black and tans. Boris will do what he thinks is best for his reputation but quite what that is???????
Keep up @taxi25, the blame does not live with those cheated of their vote.
They still had time to register, in fact thousands did.
he hasn’t got the numbers to push through no deal,
How many times does this have to be explained ???
At least once more, apparently.
But just like Gove, once the civil servants sit him down and soberly explain the consequences to him he will (I hope) change his mind.
Unlikely. During his spell at the Foreign Office he reportedly sat at his desk, inserted his fingers in his ears and hummed God Save the Queen each and every time a civil servant tried to explain to him the complexities of Brexit and the likely social and economic damage.
The only thing that Boris was on top of during his tenure at the FO was usually someone else's wife.
I have acquaintances who worked at the FO who've their own Boris related anecdotes - he's reckless, has no care for detail, lacks empathy and apparently is a singularly charmless individual once you get to know him. He needs close and careful management and has a Trumpian disdain for experts. It pains me to say this, but the party needs a Gove, not a Johnson if it is to avoid being subsumed into the Faragist carnival populist movement that will ultimately either lead us straight into authoritarianism or decades of social unrest.
Oh look a Brexiter blaming someone else for UK gov failures once again. They are getting good at it.
a Brexiter blaming someone else for UK gov failures once again. They are getting good at it
This is exactly how a "stab in the back" mentality takes hold.
How many times does this have to be explained ???
Yes it's the default on 31/10 but we've seen that the (current) HoC will not sit idly by and let it happen. The only way that'll change is either a GE or the new leader doing a fantastic job of convincing MPs that No Deal is the best option available to the UK at the moment. We won't get a GE while the resurgent Farage is fresh in Tory minds, and I'm not sure how you can put enough lipstick on the pig of no deal to make MPs support it. So IMO no deal isn't looking much more likely than it did last week.
But if we've seen anything over the last couple of years, it's that this whole Brexit process has a habit of developing in unexpected ways.
The current HoC has sat idly by for 3 years now !! They had many opportunities to end the charade one way or another and failed at every turn. All Boris (or whoever) has to do is continue stalling, preventing debate, abusing our outmoded parliamentary procedure, and his job is done. Simples.
apparently is a singularly charmless individual once you get to know him
His own aide said of him
"everyone loves Boris, apart from those who know him"
I expect the upcoming leadership election will be a game of 'my Brexit is harder than yours' as they all queue up to out-Farage farage, while anyone sane looks on in horror
This should be played on a loop on all major TV channels:
@taxi25 that was the problem, all the EU nationals i work with that applied for the forms to be able to vote did not receive them in time, seems to be a large internal cock-up by the Electoral Commission
a large internal cock-up by the Electoral Commission
Funny how all the cock-ups - disenfranchising EU voters, Windrush, deporting or imprisoning foreign students - seem to impact the same group of people. Coincidence?
Yup. We're talking about people who've lived here, paid taxes here and who have integrated into British life incredibly successfully having had their entitlement to vote withdrawn without warning. It's not right, nor is it acceptable.
It's been said (here) that Boris has no chance of being put forward because almost everyone in government hates him.
I've just had the horrible thought that given the current political landscape and brexity leadership essentially being a poisoned chalice, I wouldn't put it past the shower of shitweasels to nominate him out of sheer spite just for the opportunity to watch him burn.
Watch Boris burn? can i bring marshmallows instead of the usual STW biscuits?
Woohooo! PM May is going!
Another Weak PM bites the dust!
Did not see the other thread ...
It’s been said (here) that Boris has no chance
Well apart from the fact he's the number one choice among the Cons.
Have you noticed that things said *here* on a political theme are a little bit, what's the word... studenty?
Its started already
All the senior Tories seem to be saying that whoever is elected must go off to Brussels and tell Johnny Foreigner what's what. Looks like a cake-and-eat-it, unicorn-based Brexit is very much back on the agenda.
Its like the last 3 years never happened for these clowns
God help us!
Have you noticed that things said *here* on a political theme are a little bit, what’s the word… studenty?
Ha. Not much different than whats been coming out of the mouths of brexiter politicians and their supporters.
Well apart from the fact he’s the number one choice among the Cons.
They can put a mouse as PM to Brexit (NO deal) and the mouse will go down in history as the greatest PM ever ... well after the previous greatest British PMs.
Go against the Referendum as a PM then s/he should be fired. Simples.
all the EU nationals i work with that applied for the forms to be able to vote did not receive them in time
Or, even worse IMO, they received letters saying that they did not need to do anything else... only to be told, too late, that they in fact did.
It's a cock up that they knew about in advance but did nothing to stop. Utterly shameful.
Then for the Electoral Commission to say that unless you can prove the result would have been different otherwise, you can't even do anything about it! It's absolutely rotten to the core.
Or, even worse IMO, they received letters saying that they did not need to do anything else… only to be told, too late, that they in fact did.
I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but does anyone find this "mistake" awfully convenient?
Has a figure been attached yet to exactly how many EU nationals were eligible to vote and couldn't?
Yay democracy.
Well apart from the fact he’s the number one choice among the Cons
Have you not noticed that the often thought front runner rarely gets the job?
but does anyone find this “mistake” awfully convenient?
Yup.
It's an indication of just how far down the pan we've gone.
Yep colleague in work who's from Italy sent her form off in time but was told at polling station it hadnt been received, her husband's Irish & he had no probs.
Lived, here & worked in a cancer research lab & paid taxes for 8 years.
I suspect incompetence rather than conspiracy tho.
So who's the next PM that's gonna be chewed up & spat our by the insanity that is Brexit?
Putin must be laughing his socks off right now!
Anyone know how to apply for an Irish passport/duel citizenship and what's involved?
My late grandad on my mother's side was Irish, so I belive I'm eligible.. I'm not sure if he became British though...
I suspect incompetence rather than conspiracy tho.
I would err in that direction. My wife (Belgian lived in UK since 60's) sent hers off and got polling card about a week ago. Fairly tight getting it a week ahead so a lot of opportunity for people not to get their in time.
Putin must be laughing his socks off right now!
He'll hardly be alone there. At the moment we're the international equivalent of this...
And electing a preening, self-serving buffoon like Boris Johnson has a certain horrible inevitability to it
And electing a preening, self-serving buffoon like Boris Johnson has a certain horrible inevitability to it
As I have seen him described just now - "The thinking man's idiot and the idiot's thinking man".
Spot on.
Bit of PG Wodehouse artifice, a smattering of utterly pointless latin and a xenophobic 'gaffe' and a lot of the 'great' british public will fall for it.....
If anyone is looking for some light in the darkness.
I'm reading that Voter turn-out was higher than average in Remain areas, where as in Leaver areas it was lower.
The Labour voting, Leaving areas saw the biggest drop in turn-out.
Source, Robert Peston on Twitter
Thank you P-Jay, I sincerely hope that you are correct. If you are, I owe you a pint.
@grimep what do think a new pro-Brexit PM will achieve that TM couldn’t?
Higher-than-expected turnout in Cornwall for Euro elections – 41.4%, with a total 175,475 votes cast yesterday.
Good turn out in Cornwall apparently.
It also appears that one of the EU nationals, who filled in all the paperwork correctly, but was denied the chance to vote was the Europe Director of Amnesty International!
I refer STW to the Laurel and Hardy picture above.
Laughing stock, I'm afraid. Maybe we deserve Blo-Hard.
So Boris has stated that the UK will leave in October, deal or not.
I think he is hoping he doesn't make it to the membership vote, that the mp's see him off in the early rounds. He knows he can't deliver, he needs someone else to eat the shit sandwich before he takes over, a patsy he can blame it on.
Seem a few commentators on Twitter are saying that if Labour come out badly from yesterday vote, Corbyn won't see Xmas as leader. I don't know about that, he'll have to resign mind you, his followers have got Labour tied up.
his followers have got Labour tied up.
This is rather overstated, he has lost most of those that carried him to power over his brexit non-stance.
So Boris has stated that the UK will leave in October, deal or not.
Indeed. And so it begins.
As I said earlier, be careful what you wish for. Gods help us all.
So JRM is backing BoJo, make of that what you will. To me it indicates the fix is already in, Boris lands the job and Moggy and his ERG chums will be taking turns operating their new puppet.
Everyone strap in, it's going to be a rough ride.
@grimep what do think a new pro-Brexit PM will achieve that TM couldn’t?
You don't expect an answer do you? Just get over it, you lost - No deal will be great etc,.