Forum menu
Also just voted twice (one for MrsMonkey, don't worry) and I was the fifth person in. Beats my record of seventh for the locals.
If we get a nutter in as leader of the tories I'd expect a few of the moderates to jump ship. No guarantee where they'd jump to though, ChUK might well be struggling after todays results, LD could be too far for them to jump so could we get another small centrr(ish) party springing up for them?
I'll be voting at around 19:00 so will see how many names are ticked off. Suspecting strong support for Brexit party where I live as there is no option for anything more racist.
What happens if his funds are deemed illegal by the EU people?
That will just show how the elites are trying to destroy him. Sadly people will fall for it.
Fast forward to boris being pm
You spelled Farage wrong
Tactical voting for Labour
I don't understand this, Labour's position isn't exactly clear. Assuming you're anti-Brexit then wouldn't a tactical vote go to a party that has clear support for another referendum?
If people only voted either Brexit party or a pro-referendum party at least we'd see the split, voting Labour is just muddying the waters. Sure a Labour MEP might make more sense if we never actually leave but that's a bit of a gamble at this point.
I don’t understand this, Labour’s position isn’t exactly clear.
Maybe John McDonnell can spell it out for you:
philxx1975
Fast forward to boris being pm
You spelled Farage wrong
Farage said he prefers to moan from the sidelines than take on the job of trying to sort things out, so presumably it’s not him.
Unless of course you suspect Farage of being a liar. 🧐
I don’t understand this, Labour’s position isn’t exactly clear.
"We are not a pro-remain party"
Barry Gardiner - Shadow Secretary of State for International Trade
Thats pretty clear to me. And todays results will show that message will have been received loud and clear by many, many people like me who simply can no longer vote for the pro-Brexit labour party
The Greens and Lib Dems are going to happily hoover up all the millions of remain-leaning voters who will today stick two fingers up to Corbyn and his 'constructive ambiguity'
That’s me voted. First in the door with not even another person seen on their way there.
Me too, so I was given the honour of confirming that the ballot box was empty before they sealed it. Although it was still empty when I left as I had attended to hand in my postal vote which I hadn’t got round to posting in time.
Saw this. All true? I’m sure Farage will sue if not - it was publicly posted and judging by his milkshake response he likes to go running to the courts.
Nigel Farage:
Threatened that 6 million Turkish people would invade and take all of our benefits/jobs if we don't leave Europe, even though Turkey isn't an EU member.
Blamed bad traffic on Polish people.
Stood in front of a mock-up of a Nazi era propaganda poster showing thousands of brown refugees walking somewhere (not here) in lieu of Jewish people whilst campaigning for Brexit.
Sang Hitler youth songs at secondary school.
Marched with the BNP as a teen.
Invited Enoch Powell to speak at one of his rallies many years ago and got declined.
Adds to the gun violence video.
Beware who you vote for (even if it is a personal friend in your case Mefty)
Unless of course you suspect Farage of being a liar.
Well I would never assume that would be true.
😜
Labour are not a remain party for anyone tempted to vote for them - it's literally written on their website! https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/#first
Here is a screenshot I just took!
[img] 
[/img]
Amazing all these people suddenly realising what labour party policy is. You obviously weren't paying attention at the 2017 election. Given how labour is seen as complicit in the failure to deliver brexit I'm amazed their poll ratings are where they are. The unprecendented rise of the brexit party and collapse of the tories shows what happens when you both ignore democratic votes and fail to honour primary election manifesto policies. Labour's position is probably the only thing stopping Farage having 40% or more of the vote.
At the next general election the protesting remainers will have an interesting choice, swallow their pride and vote labour, or enable a boris/Farage government.
Has anyone received a voting card? I’m pretty sure we haven’t.At the local elections we were one of the wards trialling bringing ID to the polling station so I think I’ll just take my (EU) passport along.
Just turn up Bob.
My local place just asks for a name and address. It surprises me how easy it would be to visit many polling stations, having picked a random person from the electoral role.......
The unprecendented rise of the brexit party and collapse of the tories shows what happens when you both ignore democratic votes and fail to honour primary election manifesto policies.
If you promote a "sunlit uplands" or "no considerable downsides" policy, that doesn't deliver (whether we are EU members or not) you will lose support. See also a "jobs first" or "all the benefits of the Single Market" policy.
If you ride the populist bandwagon of Brexit making people's lives better, then you will be seen to have betrayed them if you fail to deliver a Brexit that makes people's lives better. That counts just as much for delivering Brexit as blocking it, I'm afraid. And it applies to any form of Brexit as well.
Fuzzy
If voting labour tactically prevents brexit getting a seat then that's a success
Tactical voting is about voting for the party best placed to oust the party you like least
Just cast my vote for the Euro-Elections.
Glad I'm still a European.
😍
I'm sat in an office of 12 people right now, only 3 know there are elections today, only me and 1 other know what they're for and who they might vote for. I find it very odd and more than a touch worrying. I suspect a few more will now vote, but I also think they'll vote along traditional lines.
We, as a politically enlightened bunch, appear very much in the minority of voters right now.
Another way of looking at voting is to say no non-local election has ever been won by one vote so you will never change the result. However you are making a statement and adding your voice to the party that best represents your views and with policies you'd like to see applied.
We have a two round system in this part of the world so I generally vote with my heart in the first round and then as TJ puts it "the party best placed to oust the party you like least" in the second round unless by some happy chance my favoured party is still in the running.
In this one I'm torn between conviction with Europe Ecologie les Verts and pragmatism with EM.
Thats pretty clear to me
and yet there are plenty of quotes from other, more senior, labour party sources saying otherwise.
Your fixation on him is rather funny.
As a more general comment best not to say how you have voted until after the polls close. Its potentially an offence.
I’m sat in an office of 12 people right now, only 3 know there are elections today, only me and 1 other know what they’re for and who they might vote for. I find it very odd
However outside your office the important people aged 50 to retirement are voting for good ol Nigel because he represents their views from years gone by.
Why not have a little vote in your office and see who you can identify as a brexiteer wins
I voted for the strongest Remain party in my region: Lib Dem.
I’m 50 this year and there’s no way in hell I'm voting for that frog-faced ****!
and yet there are plenty of quotes from other, more senior, labour party sources saying otherwise.
The likes of Tom Watson and Kier Starmer can say whatever they like.It'll make no difference to party policy. We all know that, despite clearly laughable protestations to the opposite, about restoring party democracy', Corbyn is only listening to Seamus Milne, Len McClusky and the Brexiteer echo chamber he surrounds himself with, in the bunker. They all share his 1970's knee-jerk anti-EU sentiment, and they're the ones dictating policy.
You can try and convince yourself that that isn't the case, but all that matters is who's box you put your cross in, at the end of the day.
I'm sure todays results will show that millions of life-long labour voters will be abandoning the party to vote for a party with a more enlightened world-view ie: the Lib Dems, Greens or the other lot.
Ironically, the position Labour has taken isn't brexitty enough for the 'no deal' anti-EU hardliners they constantly pander too in their 'Northern Heartlands', who are probably going to vote for Farage anyway
So its a lose/lose
Difficult to imagine how they could have got it more wrong really, isn't it?
@dissonance - “As a more general comment best not to say how you have voted until after the polls close. Its potentially an offence.”
No, it’s not. A person is at liberty to state how they voted at any time and through any medium, as long as they are outside of the polling station.
The likes of Tom Watson and Kier Starmer can say whatever they like.It’ll make no difference to party policy.
Pretty sure Starmer and Watson are closer to the issues than you binners 🙂
@bodgy - Guardian and other papers are erring on the side of their lawyers and banning any mention due to the law being significantly vague it could be used.
Election Maps UK (@ElectionMapsUK) Tweeted:
European Election Voting Intention IF Labour 'Became Pro Remain and Promised an in/out 2nd Referendum':
LAB: 36% (+12)
BXP: 30% (-2)
CON: 11% (=)
LDM: 9% (-6)
NAT: 4% (=)
CHUK: 3% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (+1)
GRN: 2% (-4)
Via @ComRes, 17 May.
Changes w/ Regular poll. https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1130900865995485184?s=17
I think the electoral authorities will probably have bigger fish to fry than a bunch of whiney middle-class cockbags spouting crap about who they voted for on t'internet
ie: who's picking up Nige's dry cleaning bills
We all know that
No we really dont. I know I dont have access to the sources available to make that judgement and as for you. Whilst I cant say for sure I know you keep making predictions and keep getting them wrong.
Therefore I have to conclude that, in fact, you have no real knowledge but are effectively a mirror image of many brexiteers. Emotionally attached to a particular viewpoint and therefore desperately clinging to any evidence supporting it whilst ignoring any evidence to the contrary.
Difficult to imagine how they could have got it more wrong really, isn’t it?
They have made the mistake of treating people like adults rather than idiots.
The unprecendented rise of the brexit party and collapse of the tories shows what happens when you both ignore democratic votes and fail to honour primary election manifesto policies.
The unprecendented rise of the brexit party and collapse of the tories shows what happens when you encourage easily-manipulated racists.
As a more general comment best not to say how you have voted until after the polls close. Its potentially an offence.
We haven't changed anyone's mind here in almost 1,700 pages. I doubt very much that anyone's going to vote differently on the back of a pastry-based squabble between a crayon botherer and a quadropedalled Scotsman.
They have made the mistake of treating people like adults rather than idiots.
....and hows that worked out for them?
I'd conclude the total opposite, personally. Telling two opposing groups of people what you think they want to hear, while telling the other group the polar opposite, in the hope that they both vote for you, is the very definition of treating people like idiots, surely?
Constructive ambiguity? I think the country will be delivering its verdict on that nonsense today. Again...
Weird that the people who I know who would never vote for Jeremy Corbyn because he said we should have talks with the IRA are perfectly happy to vote for the Brexit party and Claire Fox https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-48112981
labour had their chance, they blew it
constructive ambiguity helped them at first but the time to come off the fence was at least 6-9 months ago, certainly by the time Mays efforts had obviously failed, which was swiftly followed by Dyson, Nissan, JLR etc started announcing job cuts/ plant moves
From then on as the 'party of the workers', theyve had no excuses
I suppose that no one who votes for the Brexit party can complain about Corbyn being anti-Semitic or pro IRA again!
I can't see that stopping them.
Ironically, the position Labour has taken isn’t brexitty enough for the ‘no deal’ anti-EU hardliners they constantly pander too in their ‘Northern Heartlands’, who are probably going to vote for Farage anyway
That worked out well for for the stout Northern workforce of S****horpe, who voted overwhelmingly for Brexit despite being told it was bad for their future. Well, chin up lads - worse things happened during the war, right?
Looks like May her kicked the can down the road yet again. The Withdrawal bill, mean to be published yesterday, then tomorrow, has been hoofed down the road until after the summer recess
Looks like the Maybot is still clinging on like the most determined of chug-nuts and has no intention of resigning. I can't be the only one who's finding this hilarious. The Brexiteers are clearly apoplectic at their own impotence in the face of her intransigence. Watching the news last night with Leadson resigning and IDS going puce, there seemed more than a hint that she was actively enjoying this. Driving them insane in preventing them replacing her with Boris and knowing there's absolutely nothing they can do about it until December
Surely this would be the opportune moment for Corbyn to call for a vote of no confidence?
At the next general election the
protesting remainersLabour leadership will have an interesting choice, swallow their pride andvote labourcome out as Pro remain and Pro PV, or enable a boris/Farage government.
FIFY
I can’t be the only one who’s finding this hilarious.
It's hilarious until I spare a thought for the consequences.
Looks like May her kicked the can down the road yet again. The Withdrawal bill, mean to be published yesterday, then tomorrow, has been hoofed down the road until after the summer recess
Looks like the Maybot is still clinging on like the most determined of chug-nuts and has no intention of resigning. I can’t be the only one who’s finding this hilarious. The Brexiteers are clearly apoplectic at their own impotence in the face of her intransigence. Watching the news last night with Leadson resigning and IDS going puce, there seemed more than a hint that she was actively enjoying this. Driving them insane in preventing them replacing her with Boris and knowing there’s absolutely nothing they can do about it until December
Surely this would be the opportune moment for Corbyn to call for a vote of no confidence?
Cabinet want the ‘22' to do her in, the ‘22' want Cabinet to. Both sides want to avoid the optics of a pack of men picking on a woman.
Corbyn tried that previously in January.
What is the point? I mean, what is the friggin' point? The vote will be the same whenever she brings it back, so what is gained by delaying, except that she stays in her job a bit longer? All this talk about her "sense of duty", but it's clear she has no thought for anything but herself.
Amazing all these people suddenly realising what labour party policy is.
The problem is whilst it's clear in their manifesto the version of Brexit Labour want is something that the EU won't ever agree to (and they either know it or are more deluded than I think). So is voting for Labour really voting for Brexit if they can't actually deliver Brexit either?
As for voting participation, roll-on electronic voting I say, at least the Russian's can directly vote for me then rather than just trying to influence it.
to call for a vote of no confidence
He'll wait to after the Euro vote surely? Then claim the government is a farce etc as evidenced by the voting public..
We, as a politically enlightened bunch, appear very much in the minority of voters right now.
That is not new and is mainly why I am against democracy as it is currently. I wouldn't let someone who has no interest in cars, doesn't understand the first thing about them and never driven a car before choose my car for me.
That is not new and is mainly why I am against democracy as it is currently. I wouldn’t let someone who has no interest in cars, doesn’t understand the first thing about them and never driven a car before choose my car for me.
This. Some kind of benevolent technocracy with a constitution that protects minority rights and enshrines that the economy shoukd work for the benefit of the majority. Experts on different topics get picked from a pool by a random number generator and have to vote on policy decisions.
He’ll wait to after the Euro vote surely? Then claim the government is a farce etc as evidenced by the voting public..
Difficult to claim the moral high ground when you've just been electorally wiped out yourself. If the polls are anywhere near right then he's not going to be in a position to be demanding anything.
In fact, there must be plenty of Labour MPs (a massive majority) thinking that they'd like to do with their 'leader' what the Tory's want to do to theirs ie: fire them into the sun.
It'd be interesting to see how a Labour leadership fight would pan out with a credible candidate, on the back of disastrous local then EU election results. Surely all but the most hopelessly deluded can now see Magic Grandad for what he is. An electoral liability who is never going to be PM. He's surely now lost the youth vote he was so dependent on, given his stance on Brexit
The Labour Party forums on social media is quite a lively place right now, we're treated to astroturfing at half hourly intervals about how Labour is the party of Europe. I'm delighted to report that members are replying with variations of "**** off".
JC should have called a VoC yesterday, TMs future will be decided either tomorrow or monday; as soon as there is a date for the end of her leadership, the conservates wom't need to vote against her.
That is not new and is mainly why I am against democracy as it is currently. I wouldn’t let someone who has no interest in cars, doesn’t understand the first thing about them and never driven a car before choose my car for me.
Oh give over. Democracy is very far from perfect but every alternative in history that has been tried where a significant minority (or even a majority) of the people are disenfranchised has shown that those very same people are exploited, impoverished and victimised. This view is nothing more than elitest, authoritarian snobbery of the highest order. The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests. If you don't lilke the results then try harder to change their minds.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
The evidence clearly shows otherwise...
Went and voted at lunch.
Apparently it had been quiet all day. Not helped by the fact it covers a uni area as well and most of them have left now.
However not sure how useful it will be as a barometer of political conditions.
Experts on different topics get picked from a pool by a random number generator and have to vote on policy decisions.
And how will you choose who goes into the pool?
Good analogy kerley.
We live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
The other part of the problem is a lot of UK MPs don't seem to realise that either, or maybe they do and are just hedging thier bets to keep their seats and benefits. Not productive in the long run.
Interestingly farrage apparently said at a rally in the last day or so that the brexit party would demand to be part of the negociations if they win big at the euros..
Again the brexit party is not in government and has no MPs, so has no right at all to be party to any withdrawal negotiations.
That said, he won't spin it like that and his extreme right fan base will call it undermining democracy based on the outcome of the euro elections.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
On a personal level possibly, not considering the wider impacts to thier local communities and economy.
Just look at the lies spouted by farage over fishing rights that were sucked up by fishing towns.
The UK government at the time sold the UK’s fishing rights to private companies who then licenced or re-soled them to foreign companies, bad cash grabbing move but legitimate.
They were legally sold and would have to be bought back at great cost.
The UK is not getting its fishing rights back, face it.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
Rather than having to rely on my own fears, prejudices and ignorance, I would prefer a sufficently disterested expert (or experts) to do that for me!
re-soled
Chapeau!
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
What on earth gave you that idea?
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
The people are fully entitled of deciding what is in their own best interests, their capability is rather questionable.
This is a bloody disgrace.
EU citizens in UK complain of being denied right to vote
We really have become a tinpot little banana republic, haven't we?
Chapeau!
Unintended auto-correction pun, but I'll take it 😉
@Zippykona there are issues for UK nationals outside the UK. It took me 3 attempts and a complaint to get my registration for the postal vote accepted and a colleague at work has had his registration rejected and appeal ignored until it was too late to be included (he did finally have a nice mail this week saying it was all setup for the next election though!).
there are issues for UK nationals outside the UK
The last minute nature of the elections really will not have helped things. Whilst some did start spending early others would have waited until the last minute in the hope they would save the money.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
But deciding what is in the country's best interests though, not so much.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
Was it deliberate that you didn't include the word "rationally"?
Edit: As some of my idle reading suggests that we often make ludicrous decisions based on everything but rational thinking.
Good work by someone in Manchester 😃
https://twitter.com/northernsoulmcr/status/1131517779536953345?s=21
Surely this would be the opportune moment for Corbyn to call for a vote of no confidence?
Yes. So he won't. He's got time. 70's pretty young by Politbureau standards.
Help me clarify this point.
Does Lib Dem offer No Deal as a choice?
I know they offer to revoke A50.
🤔
dazh
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
I agree, but it essential that what they are told is the truth, and the whole truth.
The Brexit fiasco has really shown up the damage that has been done to democracy by media control being in the hands of a few large, and mainly foreign, operators.
It needs to be broken up and localised, and severe, as in eye popping, penalties imposed for untruths on both the media and politicians.
Help me clarify this point.
Does Lib Dem offer No Deal as a choice?
I know they offer to revoke A50.
The policy is very much remain in the EU.
The preferred vehicle for that is a referendum, a legal one this time.
I don't think they'd rule out a complete unilateral revocation either considering the diplomatic mess we are in.
To answer the question directly, the answer is no. A no deal scenario is the worst possible outcome.
Non-sequitur in 3...2...1...
To answer the question directly, the answer is no.
Interesting that because I am just double checking if I have listened correctly to the Farage and Cable debate on youtbue. During one of their exchange When pressed Cable actually said loudly No Deal would be offered. i.e. Revoked A50, A Deal and No Deal ... (correction as I just found the youtbue clip again and Cable actually said it loudly but it is about 2nd confirmatory referendum).
If I got it wrong then that's just me.
Will try to listen/watch the youtbue clip again if I have time.
Well at least tonight's new series of Mock The Week should find something to discuss.
The people are perfectly capable of deciding what is in their own best interests.
Not sure if trolling.
But, no, no they are not. "The people" are not rational, or informed, or even in possession of the truth.
Non-sequitur in 3…2…1
May's deal is dead, the only choice now, assuming we don't have a general election in the interim, is no deal or revoke.
That's not Liberal demacrat policy, that's just Vincent responding to what might happen in possible scenarios given his party aren't in government.
Non-sequitur indeed. PJM totally called you on that one 😉
No deal is not a choice. It's what happens if we run out of choices.
Anyone who tells you any different is either lying or a buffoon.