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https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
Excellent piece on how to vote tactically to maximise the remain vote
Excellent piece on how to vote tactically to maximise the remain vote
Can't be that excellent if it suggests it's possible to vote to remain in the EU Elections given MEPs won't have any say in the UK parliamentary process. You may as well vote fo the party most advocating painting the moon pink.
Whilst I totally agree voting for someone with a vested interest in seeing us out of the EU to go to the EU it's daft, (and our history of doing so is a big contributor to why "the EU doesn't work") voting for someone who you might* otherwise completely disagree with because of their stance on something they can't change rather than someone you do largely agree with despite their stance on something they can't effect is just as foolish. (just in case they do get to take their seats and do something)
Add to that the take home from a trouncing by pro remain parties at the LEs is we need to get brexited quicker and I'm not sure what you think tactically voting for remainers is going to achieve besides a terrible and hastier brexit agreed by parties in fear of their own demise.
What is disappointing about that tactical voting website is it seems the maximum number of MPs from pro-EU parties likely to be elected using tactical voting is 16 out 70 total seats - only 6 more than with no tactical voting - and the Brexit party vote only reduces by 3.
Guess we'll have to wait until they publish results on 21st May when they will include "specific Labour related questions".
Add to that the take home from a trouncing by pro remain parties at the LEs is we need to get brexited quicker and I’m not sure what you think tactically voting for remainers is going to achieve besides a terrible and hastier brexit agreed by parties in fear of their own demise
At least I won't be told, over and over again, that I voted for a party who had pledged to respect the result of the referendum. F@@@. That.
Nice take on Magic Grandad and Labours launch today from John Crace
Who needs policies? Jeremy the bearded messiah is back
Labour had a very clear B-word plan. It was to keep things as ambiguous as possible. To sound as if it had something to offer both leavers and remainers, while actually being a Brexit party at heart. Here was the deal. Labour was committed to honouring the result of the referendum provided its as yet unspecified demands for a B-word deal were met. And if they weren’t, then Labour would demand a general election. And if that wasn’t possible, then he would consider the option – only the option, mind, so no promises – of a second referendum.
Add to that the take home from a trouncing by pro remain parties at the LEs is we need to get brexited quicker and I’m not sure what you think tactically voting for remainers is going to achieve besides a terrible and hastier brexit agreed by parties in fear of their own demise.
3 choices
Don't vote/spoil ballot paper...
Vote for pro-Brexit parties > empowering the current Westminster hard Brexiters and giving us more numpties in any future EU Parliament.
Vote for pro-Remain parties > empowering soft Leavers and Remainers in Westminster to continue putting the brakes on and giving us sensible representation in any future EU Parliament.
YMMV.
Add to that the take home from a trouncing by pro remain parties at the LEs is we need to get brexited quicker and I’m not sure what you think tactically voting for remainers is going to achieve besides a terrible and hastier brexit agreed by parties in fear of their own demise.
Ah, another way of saying that the way to ‘tactically’ thwart an alt-right policy is to vote for it, so that the alt-right then realise what lovely, reasonable people remainers really are and thereby curb their own worst instincts and prejudices?
Ermmmmmm........ no!
Ah, another way of saying that the way to ‘tactically’ thwart an alt-right policy is to vote for it
Not at all. The tactical way to do anything is fight battles you can win not ones you can't.
Voting for a pro remain party at the next General election, assuming its pre sod the 48%, despite their other policies (within reason) because they stand a chance of blocking our Revoking a50 with enough votes, perfectly sound. Voting for a party solely because its pro remain in an election that has absolutely zero bearing on our remaining in the EU, but actually does have a bunch of other things it can effect is daft.
The likelihood is most people here are not voting tory/brexit party/ukip any way but will vote SNP/libdem/green/Labour maybe even tory lite/change UK.
Not voting Labour because you don't agree with a major one of their policies (leave) is perfectly sensible. But for example, voting SNP North of the border even though you're a unionist because it "tactical voting for remain" is bat shit crazy, vote green or libdem or something you believe in. Even if every single MEP returned by the UK at the election is massively pro remain they have no say in that.
Vote for the policies, plural, you want, that they can implement and, I think here at least, you'll find you're voting for remainers any how, you'll just find that you agree with them about more than where you live and the fact that should still be a place in Europe.
reasonable people remainers really are and thereby curb their own worst instincts and prejudices?
They're going to ignore you any way, regardless of how you vote, because you're never going to vote for them.
How did 48% go for us?
How did the last ge go? (where categorically if people had voted for remain parties in significant numbers it might have had a positive effect)
The last le?
I'd never advocate voting for something you don't agree with, be that alt right, centre right a wee bit left or sickle and star fluttering in the wind over Parliament Square. That is very much my point, don't vote "against" something, vote for something, especially when you've a choice of multiple options who all represent the main thing you're for, pick the one which has a few more things going for it than 1.
****ing Farage is on QT yet again! Along with another gammon! FFS!!
****ing Farage is on QT yet again! Along with another gammon! FFS!!
Had to switch it off. Felt the bile rising.
I know someone who refuses to vote lib dems because of the coalition student fee issue.
On asking who they now vote for, the answer was they won't vote at all.
People. Sigh.
****ing Farage is on QT yet again! Along with another gammon! FFS!!
Is it worth watching or will I just throw a brick through my TV?
The most annoying thing is the far right extremists keep saying the BBC is biased toward anyone who's not insane..
I would love to hoof him in his racist slats. With bombers. It's hard going.
He’s a truly vile human being. An absolute shyster.
Amber Rudd is within punching distance of the obnoxious ****. That’d make a good QT
He is however right about one thing. The two parties are only serving themselves and a stitch up is imminent
Corbyn today made that quite obvious. It’s in the post
I dunno, if magic grandpa and Cruella de vil come to an agreement it will mean a truly vassal state. With a backstop.
That will just split 2 stupid parties into 4 sub parties in parliament... But that was always Comming.
You think they care?
Self-preservation of the ‘to me - to you’ system is all that matters to them right now. They’ll place that before everything
Vote for the policies, plural, you want, that they can implement…
…but actually does have a bunch of other things it can effect is daft.
Not if Brexit happens… then we have no MEPs. Voting for MEPs of parties that have a policy of getting rid of MEPs only makes sense if you also don't want MEPs.
Not if Brexit happens… then we have no MEPs.
That's a point actually.
If we vote in the EU elections and appoint MEPs, then we subsequently leave the EU after that, what happens? Do our MEPs then suddenly become not-MEPs? What fills the hole left if so?
Do our MEPs then suddenly become not-MEPs?
Yes. Although in theory we are still leaving before the new parliament starts so they will never actually be MEPs.
What fills the hole left if so?
The seats are due to be redistributed between the other countries. Since (I think) they all use list systems this could still go ahead. Dunno if it has been decided on though.
Add to that the take home from a trouncing by pro remain parties at the LEs is we need to get brexited quicker
That might be what they’re saying - as in the sound bite they’re pushing - but it’s not the way they’re acting.
But I agree with the post a few above (and as I’ve said before) if you can’t vote for someone, anyone, who you DO agree with then please still go and vote: spoil your ballot instead.
Significant numbers of spoiled ballots would gain attention.
Significant numbers of spoiled ballots would gain attention.
Do you genuinely believe that or just hope? Given [already] significant numbers of Lib-dem votes don't gain attention I can't see it happening.
I'm all for trying but the only way you're likely to get noticed is when they loose, and even if 99% spoilt their ballot they'd still win with 42% of 1%.
Edit: actually no a spoilt ballot can get noticed. Just draw an arrow and write brexit...
For the sake of my health I can't watch QT. Did the BBC field anyone that disagreed with their beloved Nigel?
I am heading into the Highlands for the weekend. I'll collect my winnings next week
Are we all still on for this not happening at all?
What do we think the mechanism for this not happening at all will be?
What kind of fallout are we all expecting when this doesn't happen?
Do we think the lack of fallout that occurs from this not happening will be lasting?
I think i might have hinted at the answer to my own question on the last one there.
Interestingly (and I have not research3d more deeply) Have I got News For You was pulled last night, allegedly because Heidi Allen was on and her appearance might impact the European elections.
As opposed to Farage being on QT...
Heidi getting ripped apart and depending on editing no chance to reply to any points made against her is different that Farage being on QT which is chaired, has right to reply etc,.
If that's the case, the message should have said that - the Beeb just said no competing politicians during an election period, and Farage definitely counts as one of those. He was vile on QT.
Heidi getting ripped apart and depending on editing no chance to reply to any points made against her is different that Farage being on QT which is chaired, has right to reply etc,.
Farage was HIGNFY in the month leading up to the last EU elections.
I see there's going to be a remain landslide in the EU elections...
The no change party really seem to have caught the public's imagination.
As opposed to Farage being on QT…
It's a roughly balanced panel with open debate. That's not the same as a comedy show.
The no change party really seem to have caught the public’s imagination
Was never going to happen.
Well at least you know who to vote for dazh.
I’ll be voting green actually. Always do in non-general elections.
It’s a roughly balanced panel with open debate
Yes the balance has been very rough ever since the referendum.
I see the brexit party are ahead in the polls.
no manifesto, registered company, farage
what a ****ing embarrasment it is to be english.
I see the brexit party are ahead in the polls.
Not a surprise as they have had wall-to-wall advertising on their own pet TV channel.
(Guess who's on Marr this morning ...)
How do we complain about Bbc bias?
The Queen.
One of the no-changers has just been on the radio and said that they were formed 'by high-flyers from the 3 main traditional parties'. I nearly spat my coffee out.
I'm not going to be home on the 23rd. But then I found my postal ballot! Yay!
The Brexit party deserve their success when the rest of British politics fails to find it's arse with both hands.
Yes the balance has been very rough ever since the referendum.
Nah. Both sides complain about balance. Tells me it's roughly correct.
The Brexit party deserve their success when the rest of British politics fails to find it’s arse with both hands.
Well, we've seen how Farage operates as an MEP… he is all campaign, no delivery. He wouldn't even attempt to find his arse if he had a role in Westminster politics. He's all blame, no content.
Yet 'establishment' politics fails to counter their ( his ) points over and over again, with any conviction.
I can't have been alone, hearing news of a light aircraft crash this morning, in hoping that he was on board..?
The Kingdom is looking more dis- than united. Apparently there was a big independence march in Cardiff the other day and there's muttering in NI.
…fails to counter their ( his ) points over and over again…
What "points" …?
While other MEPs work their arses off to help deliver improvements for their countries, he blathers on about hearing other languages on public transport? His bullshit is constantly "countered", but people want to believe his lies and his act, and you can't stop them.
rone
Subscriber
Nah. Both sides complain about balance. Tells me it’s roughly correct.
Really doesn't tell you anything of the sort. If there is bias, you can guarantee that the people it's against will complain. And this being modern politics, so will the other side, even if they know they're coming out of it better, because that's just how the game's played.
Really doesn’t tell you anything of the sort.
I disagree.
You go into the pistonheads politics thread and they're all shouting out the BBC for supporting the left.
And conversely come in here and the suggestion is that the BBC are letting the right get away with it.
Given it's hard to decifer anyway because it's open to interpretation I would say that bias doesn't tangibly exist as there are arguments for and against; compounded by time frames etc.
On top of that just about every report that has been commissioned has found that BBC has not broke its impartiality code (there is the odd article or programme that has gone over the threshold). The BBC has also had many complaints over the years about pro-EU bias in actuality - But then people come on here complaining about Farage, well that's because he's available to appear. Lots of senior politicians won't even appear on QT anymore either.
I'm sticking with the idea that the balance is roughly correct.
I’m sticking with the idea that the balance is roughly correct.
Agree. The problem with balance is that you have to find someone to balance things with which explains the amount of ****ers given air time.
He'll be on the naughty step with the PFJ
Oh... Uncle Jezza... if you message me we'll get your cream cake feast off to you. Curses!!!
He’ll be on the naughty step with the PFJ
The problem for Starmer and everyone else behind a 2nd referendum is that poll in the same article. The tories are being slaughtered for not delivering brexit. Much as I'd like to believe otherwise, I can't see any evidence in that poll, or from the local elections that indicates labour would be treated any differently if they also come out against their previous promises of honouring the 2016 referendum result.
Oh… Uncle Jezza… if you message me we’ll get your cream cake feast off to you. Curses!!!
At last - the Brexit Bonus! 🙂
labour would be treated any differently
What does the sand look like down there?
You think that most people inclined to vote Labour are pro-Brexit, just like most people inclined to vote Tory are? You can find no "evidence" to the contrary?
The Brexit party deserve their success when the rest of British politics fails to find it’s arse with both hands.
The mess caused in part by Farage who shat everywhere and then walked away from the mess? Only now to bimble back and declare he will fix everything?
Bearing in mind this is the bloke who despite pretending to care about the fishing industry couldnt be arsed turning up often to the committee to represent them.
He’ll be on the naughty step with the PFJ
So, ermmm, he has repeated his existing line which in the past has been punished how exactly?
Whats your latest genius prediction for this week?
This week, Comrade, I'm predicting the same as last week. only the timing has changed. But then you can't expect Jezza to do anything in a hurry.
I expect Kier Starmers statement is an act of desperation to try and stop said stitch up - with not a cat-in-hells chance of a confirmatory referendum - between Brexity Corbyn, Seamus and Len and Theresa
Any predictions yourself?
Is the revolution due this week?
Tom Watson on 4 this morning saying a PV is likely the only way to get an agreement through parliament
He's been saying that since he spoke at the march in London. It hasn't shifted the policy position of his party though, has it?
The labour party is now essentially two parties though, isn't it? Both saying different, contradictory things
Its like when an old 70's band has split up and there are now two of them arguing over getting to use the name, so that they can go on a tour of the pubs in Essex. Then one of them has to call themselves 'The REAL...' and the other one gets to use the name on the posters for next Fridays gig at the Black Horse
Basically, the Labour Party is now Showaddywaddy
You think that most people inclined to vote Labour are pro-Brexit
No I think that the labour vote is completely split. Any position they take will lose them huge numbers of votes. The evidence is also showing that the voters will punish any party which fails to honour their promise of implementing the referendum result. Hence why the tories are being punished even though they are pro-brexit. As I've said before many times, any party who goes against the referendum result will be slaughtered by the electorate, not because the electorate is massively pro-brexit, but because they think democratic votes should be carried through.
The longer this goes on, the less it's about europe, and more about how politicians don't listen to the people, reinforcing the drivers behind the original vote. That's why Farage is back on the scene. You think he's bothered about brexit? He sees an opportunity to gain power, and brexit is the vehicle not the destination. He's following the Trump playbook to the letter. Everyone assumes he or someone like him could never gain power, yet that's what we all thought about Trump. Whilst we all obsess about labour and the tories, leave or remain etc he's quietly building a support base which could take us in a terrifying direction.
The longer this goes on, the less it’s about europe, and more about how politicians don’t listen to the people, reinforcing the drivers behind the original vote. That’s why Farage is back on the scene. You think he’s bothered about brexit? He sees an opportunity to gain power, and brexit is the vehicle not the destination. He’s following the Trump playbook to the letter. Everyone assumes he or someone like him could never gain power, yet that’s what we all thought about Trump. Whilst we all obsess about labour and the tories, leave or remain etc he’s quietly building a support base which could take us in a terrifying direction.
100% this, which is not exactly the same as:
The evidence is also showing that the voters will punish any party which fails to honour their promise of implementing the referendum result.
Voters didn't say "we want to leave" (or why would they have voted LibDem/Green/etc ?) - they said "we are sick of this shit". If we let Farage/Bannon and co appear to be the solution, we are in for a bad time.
agreed, being afraid to take on proto-fascits like farage is why both Labur & Tories are being punished, appeasing them is just more of the same political cowardice
what is heping Farage is both parties trying to square the circle of a brexit that doesnt damage the country
The problem is that our 'political class' are indeed cowards but they're also opportunists. Instead of calling our the nonsensical cake-and-eat-it promises and outright lies of these populists, they saw a chance to borrow some of their playbook for electoral advantage
So we're in this mess in the first place because Dave thought he'd co-opt some UKIP votes to beat Milliband, with hardly a second thought as to what he'd have to do to deliver on those crude nationalist policies.
Then obviously Boris and Gove going virtually full BNP (or certainly allowing their outriders to do so) as they thought it would get them into numbers 10 an 11 respectively. Throw in to the mix Corbyns rant the day after the referendum demanding that article 50 be triggered immediately and what you've got are the most senior people in both main parties effectively endorsing the narrative that was laid down by Farage
And once hamstrung by that, they can't row back from it. hence, we are where we are
The problem is that our ‘political class’ are indeed cowards but they’re also opportunists.
The Selfservatives, as I saw them referred to recently.
A Tory MP (Nigel Evans) was just asked on Five Live what his party's manifesto was for the EU elections, he just laughed and said he had no idea. So in that respect they're the same as the Brexit party who are at least open about the fact they have no policies
A good article in the Irish Times on Farage's latest ego-trip
‘We do feel we’re being betrayed’: Older voters flock to Brexit Party
He's very clever in making it personal. He's telling people that Westminster MPs are sneering at them, calling them stupid, then ignoring and patronising them. And he's right. They are. So its an easy sell
He’s telling people that Westminster MPs are sneering at them, calling them stupid, then ignoring and patronising them. And he’s right.
It's not just MPs. Add to that everyone who's ever used the phrases like 'Gammon'.*
*I'm not excluding myself here BTW before anyone starts.
Add to that anyone who has ever used the phrase "Elites" then as well Dazh.
Where does 'shit-thick, racist cockwombles' fit in to the genre? I've definitely used that
Farrage is sneering just as much, if not more. The slimy little shit.
Can someone confirm the phrase they used please.
It does not count unless there is a confirmation. 😄
I've used phrases such as "****ing clagridden arseholes", "cretinous dickheads" , "ill informed racist cockwombles" , "piss-pot hitlers" amongst others, the one good thing to come out of the proto english nationalistic racist EU vote will be independence for us up here in Scotland
Going back in the post.
.
I may have to own up to calling some of them "small-minded racists", something which is totally out of character for me but, sadly, seems to be in line with the evidence presented by their actions and deeds. Oddly, I am not sure I have ever called them Gammons.
The evidence is also showing that the voters will punish any party which fails to honour their promise of implementing the referendum result.
https://twitter.com/benpbradshaw/status/1127944686616838145?s=21
I can’t see any evidence in that poll, or from the local elections that indicates labour would be treated any differently if they also come out against their previous promises of honouring the 2016 referendum result.
Have a deep dive of the poll data split by how people voted in 2017…
yep, all the polling seems to show that being pro-brexit is hammering labour
& the only ay to stop it would be a leadership change & hoofing the likes of gardiner to the backbenches or Labour will take a trouncing in this election as well as the next GE
Whopsie daisy.
I don’t actually know what labour should do i’ll be honest. I think they’re f***** either way now. At least before I was ‘only’ worried about the tories winning another election. Now I worry about a Farage/Boris tag-team. Does anyone actually think labour can win on a remain agenda? Knowing what I do about white northern council estates I don’t think they can. I hope I’m wrong.
I think you're wrong about a "stop Brexit" straight talking Labour electorally, but don't expect we'll get to find out.
I echo your other fear though… Farage, or someone else schooled by Bannon and others like him, could well be "in charge" within the next twenty years… the British exceptionalism of those that think that it can't happen here is worrying. It can.
That was the wrong link obviously, although Chris hughton’s unjust sacking by Brighton also annoys the hell out of me 😀
He’s telling people that Westminster MPs are sneering at them, calling them stupid, then ignoring and patronising them. And he’s right.
He’s partly right - there’s an awful lot more than that, though. The insults are well-earned.
On the very rare occasions that any Leavers have a pop on Facebook, giving it all their ‘Leave means Leave’ nonsense I just ask them if it ok if I forward their details onto the thousands of people who are going to lose their jobs, so they can explain in detail and in person why it was such a good idea. For the most part, that shuts their stupid, bigoted mouths.