[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Not in this case sadly

Fox is however saying - correctly for a change - that this should be resolved after nature of trade deal is agreed.

You can apply your minds - tiny or otherwise - where you wish. Thought is free unless you choose to suppress it 😉

Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment....,

Ireland will veto anything that involves a hard border. Is that good or bad?

You've got it all wrong. Liam Fox has said we will veto a soft border if we don't get the trade deal we want. What actual planet are these idiots on? The hubris and arrogance is astonishing. And they have the cheek to moan about the EU holding our fair island to ransom.

teamhurtmore - Member

Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment....,

I've not read anything to suggest that the political imbroglio relating to an enquiry into an Garda whistleblower has any link to the line on Brexit, perhaps you could link to this theory?
Or do you mean the UK brexit buffoons need a scapegoat in the form of the RoI for their inability to obtain a deal?

Fox is however saying - correctly for a change - that this should be resolved after nature of trade deal is agreed.

why trade deal first ?

Have a border between NI and the UK mainland manned by EU customs and I think trade negotiations can start. If that is not he case I think no deal is better than a bad deal for the EU and Ireland so no trade negotiations should proceed until the UK signs up to that.

Because everything follows from that. Not the other way round.

Once we know the terms under which we will maintain ACCESS TO the single market the rest can be discussed. Silly to agree other stuff if we don’t know this first.

Worth a read (probably not worth a read for Quitlings, especially the ones that one day process not to have a clue about Irish politics and and on another, nose-tappingly suggest that there are ulterior motives at play for their position on Brexit 🙄 ). Fintan O’Toole writes for The irish Times, but had this opinion piece on The Guardian’s website.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/26/hard-won-kinship-between-britain-and-ireland-brexit-idiocy ]The hard-won kinship between Britain and Ireland is threatened by Brexit idiocy.[/url]

And on the day that this appeared in The Telegraph.
[url= https://s7.postimg.org/okobjbevv/951500_BE-_B68_F-448_F-97_B6-9_D6_DD7_FBF75_A.jp g" target="_blank">https://s7.postimg.org/okobjbevv/951500_BE-_B68_F-448_F-97_B6-9_D6_DD7_FBF75_A.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

For those thinking I might be outraged, I’m not. A little *sigh*, offended, yes. A bit “Oh FFS, is this the new focus for Brexiteers’ and Quitlings’ blame-everybody-else-but-ourselves-for-our-own-incompetence?” Yep, for sure.

Of course, the fact that the cartoon needs explaining shows how shit it is.

Once we know the terms under which we will maintain ACCESS TO the single market the rest can be discussed. Silly to agree other stuff if we don’t know this first.

Only if you think playing fast and loose with peace and stability in NI is acceptable - presumably you do. You do believe in the existence of dinosaurs?

You do believe in the existence of dinosaurs?

Well, I suppose a crocodile is one of nearest things we have to a living dinosaur - and we know that the leader of the bunch of crackpots currently propping up the Tories certainly believes in them. 🙂

[quote=teamhurtmore ]Because everything follows from that. Not the other way round.
Once we know the terms under which we will maintain ACCESS TO the single market the rest can be discussed. Silly to agree other stuff if we don’t know this first.

The problem is those whose market we want to free trade with dont agree and they are making the rules

What you or Fox says is irrelevant to them you can play their game or not but you cannot make up the rules of the game. We need to learn this very very quickly

deadlydarcy - Member
...especially the ones that one day process not to have a clue about Irish politics and and on another, nose-tappingly suggest that there are ulterior motives at play for their position on Brexit ).

To be fair the nose tapping suggestion does indicate that he doesn't have a clue about Irish politics.

Quality sneering 😉

Back your previous comment up then 😉

Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment....

Is this a reference to the DUP propping up our government?

So the conclusion to all this NI stuff is?
Fox an Davis don't communicate?
Fox doesn't understand that the UK agreed to sort out the NI border first?
Fox is trying to take the talks down?

Other thoughts welcome there but it's a bit late to start complaining about the rules of the game. If only everybody else realised how (self) important the UK is then maybe they would just role over and give us everything we want.

Fox is either
1) after WTO and wants any form of negotiation to stop hence his position
2) thick as two short planks and does not understand the process
3) Both 1 and 2

Don't forget Fox has previous on wanton to serve the UK on a platter to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlantic_Bridge

reluctantlondoner - Member
Some magnificent whataboutery here https://eand.co/the-rise-and-fall-of-nations-6ff1d9a6b044 to combat THM's whataboutery yesterday with regards to Sweden's housing bubble.

It's a good piece from American economist Umair Haque - he's always worth reading.

That link is a short but a damned good read.

We are doing exactly as the guy says. Sacrificing the poor and the old to the out dated God of Austerity and what we think is good economics... All she while spiralling downward as a society.

Sorry, the link encompasses more than Brexit but it really chimed with me.

Thanks for posting it reluctantlondoner.

Back onto Brexit proper, from that Guardian article:

They (Brexiteers) have known since 29 April, when the European commission issued its negotiating guidelines, that credible proposals on the Irish border were a basic condition that had to be satisfied before trade talks could start. This could not have been more explicit.

Are our politicians really just that stupid??

They have know for for MONTHS that the border issue had to be sorted and now, when it isn't, it's Ireland's fault, or the EU's fault!

Brexit is a bad enough idea in itself without these morons trying to "negotiate" it.

Excerpt poops for the small detail on austerity that is at the core of the mistaken article.

The author - either deliberately or not - ignores the fact that fiscal policy in the EU has been more contractionary than in the UK and that this EU imposed genuine austerity - not our fake version - on countries in the middle of genuine recessions. The worst possible idea that condemned those countries to unnecessary social and economic hardship (sacrificing the old and the poor) in the name of The Project. That’s before we talk about the abuse of democracy

Are so called economists really that stupid (to publish such embarrassing clap trap)?

EU imposed genuine austerity -

In fact it was the banks that were at the start of the problem, including no doubt yours, THM. Those countires couldn't service their debt because [u]bank[/u] interst rates went sky high. The EU could have solved this with Eurobnds and central bank lending at very low rates before the situation got to where it did but didn't. The conditions that were applied ammounted to austerity which wasn't constructive but the origin of the problem was the banks due to the chaos caused by sub prime (a crisis entirely created by the bank) and good old profiterring with interest rates. The banks traded bonds in a race to see who could make the most money without being left with a worthless asset. Some were and then the EU stepped in to help th eidiots out by buying wothless debt of the stupid banks.

Your industry is collectively responsible for the crisis and austerity in many countries and you have the cheek to blame the EU.

As well as crying "austerity" you also criticise "monetary easing" which is the opposite. Hypocrisy.

not our fake version

Meanwhile in the real world....

this EU imposed genuine austerity - not our fake version - on countries in the middle of genuine recessions. The worst possible idea that condemned those countries to unnecessary social and economic hardship

And yet it is to that EU that we gave all the trump cards in our negotiation, on the basis that they will agree with us that "trade comes first" and come to the optimum compromise. On the contrary, in many places the EU considers that "politics comes first" - in the case of the NI border, at least, rightfully so - so our hopes are likely to be dashed.

Ed - you might want to understand why Eurobonds didn’t happen (and who blocked them) the difference between bank financing and bond financing and most importantly the difference between monetary and fiscal policy. Then your posts might start to make a bit more sense and you would understand how silly your “hypocrisy” accusation is. Not that I expect you to bother with either facts or accuracy mind. Amusing tirade nonetheless

Dr you are correct the EU places politics over economics which is why they fail to deliver. Economics always wins in the end. Just a matter of timing

Brexit is the ne plus ultra of putting politics before economics.

Vraiment

the difference between bank financing and bond financing

Often one and the same thing. Central banks issue bonds and the money raised is lent to banks.

Nope

A new level of stupidity from you, THM. Anyone on this forum can Google that an see that "nope" is false as in incorrect as a provocative ignoring of the facts.

Freddy and Fannie were exclusively financed by the Fed. The BOE is a major lender to British banks:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/markets/Pages/FLS/default.aspx

imposed genuine austerity - not our fake version - on countries in the middle of genuine recessions.

As each day passes you become more like jamby using arguments you dont actually agree with just to attack the EU 🙄 When have you ever argued for big govt, increased debt and Keynesian spending rather than balancing the books, reducing the deficit and smaller govt?

PS any date on when the EZ collapses or when you stop predicting it?

Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment....,

No chance, I suppose, that you'd clarify what you meant by this thm?

any date on when the EZ collapses

Already happened JY.

*taps nose*

teamhurtmore - Member
Dr you are correct the EU places politics over economics which is why they fail to deliver. Economics always wins in the end. Just a matter of timing

For sure, that's why the guns were (sort of ) put away in the north, lower interest rates and fluctuations in economic activity.

Free Trade brought peace to Northern Ireland.

Bespoke Access to the market south of the border will ensure peace continues. 🙂

kilo - Member
teamhurtmore - Member
Dr you are correct the EU places politics over economics which is why they fail to deliver. Economics always wins in the end. Just a matter of timing
For sure, that's why the guns were (sort of ) put away in the north, lower interest rates and fluctuations in economic activity.

😆

Edukator please stop. Based on what you are posting TMH has been very polite to you. You seem to know a little but you do not have even a layman’s understanding of the topic.

YGM

Cmon Jambas where would we be without Ed’s comedy. This thread verges on serious occasionally and that’s not always a good thing

A new level of stupidity from you, THM.

Why thank you. I try so hard to fit in. You do set the bar so low that it’s hard at times.

Anyone on this forum can Google that an see that "nope" is false as in incorrect as a provocative ignoring of the facts.

They can google and make their own minds up. You were wrong again but google will show that to all. But given your track record I doubt people would bother to check. That is a given.

Freddy and Fannie were exclusively financed by the Fed. The BOE is a major lender to British banks:

QED 😯

Can someone buy me a premier subscription for Christmas please?

Jamba's back! The two banking trolls posting things they know to be false to wind up the "laymen" they look down on except this laymay got excellent economics grades at university and ran a real business in the real world well enough to give up work at 42.

THM was extremely impolite rubbishing a factually correct statement with "nope". I consdidered milder responses but decided that I would be happy to defend my post at the top of this page if I recieved a message from the moderation team.

You misrepresented the truth through the first few hundred pages of theis thread Jamba, I linked repsectable articles to demonstrate what you wrote was misleading and a misrepresentation of the truth on many occasions. THM is now rubbishing my statements on how banks borrow from central banks. He is plain wrong and yet posts a provocative "nope". He is also winding up Darcy on the Irish issue, and the forum in general by sniping rather than contributing.

Read back through the last 20 pages and try to find an example of where THM has made positive use of the forum to contribute in apositive way to the debate bringing reliable information to the table.

Both yourself Jamba, and THM make negative use of this forum and dressing up your abuse with frilly Ps and Qs doesn't make it any less offensive.

*reports own post. Edit - I can't report my own post so I'll report THM's "nope".

Time to increase our understanding please you two (Jamaba&THM)… please describe how central banks work as regards lending money to banks… or explain how/why they do not, if that is the case (which it isn't, in my very limited layman's understanding).

[i][ welcome back to this thread Jamba… everyone else - let's keep this civil and polite at all times, please ][/i]

dressing up your abuse with frilly Ps

Although I suspect it does mean they're less likey to get banhammered, it's probably a price worth paying to their handlers 😉

THM and Jamba once again miss the point about what's going on. You guys can lecture all you want about bank financing, balancing the books, make believe austerity etc but people don't GAS. All they know - and they do know - is that they are getting poorer whilst a tiny minority at the top gets richer. The more you guys tell the proles what isn't possible, the more angry and more radical they become. What happens when the great unthinking public finally realises that brexit was a sham sold to them to distract from the real problem? Corbyn and McDonnell could be the least of your worries.

For sure, that's why the guns were (sort of ) put away in the north, lower interest rates and fluctuations in economic activity.

You missed the point - dead people don't matter where MONEY is concerned!

Bravissimo - I've got you a power kite and one of those ceramic poppies 😀