we (well the oldies that voted for it) were told what we were getting in the EU
someone might be along to blow smoke up meftys arse and tell him what a clever sneer it was
I can assure you, my arse is a smoke free zone, don't want to put off those people in need of kissing it.
DD as much as I enjoy the nuances of your "sneering" - more a delicate flick of the testicle than a ful set of studs down the shin - I fear the new subtlety may be lost on your target audience. But funny nonetheless. Thank you.
Kimbers - yes
Joe - not sure what you suggestion involves. Don't forget that our representatives have already voted on our behalf to leave the EU at the end of the negotiation period - they triggered A50. So we have had a referendum and a government vote already done and dusted and moving in one direction. We know that they will get a final vote too.
But the farce of the whole thing is that any subsequent vote can only be on the deal that the EU finally offers. There is nothing else to vote on. It would be silly to have a vote on something that we may like or may not like - that's irrelevant. The final vote will be on the deal that is on the table. And then, it will be a simply choice - a binomial one - accept or move on without a deal. What else do your envisage? Whether it is a referendum or a gov vote the basic issues don't change.
So the focus now should be on strengthening our negotiation position to ensure that the deal is as good as it gets. The rest is simply noise and largely irrelevant. Other than selling newspapers and media space.
Mefty 😉
There won't be - I don't think - the option of sorry, EU, we have now decided 51:49 that the deal isn't going to work now that we have the details so can you just hang on a minute?!?!If we reject the deal at 23:59, we default to no deal and WTO.
We don't start the whole process again, at least not how I understand it.
Well it’s one of the options. One of the options various Europeans keep mentioning.
So I wouldn’t discount it yet kid.
Ok grandpa 😉
Don’t. Just did an hour on the rolling dry ski slope at Xscape. First time on skis in 20 years and I feel knackered.
Anyway I know you’ve just thrown me that hope so you can dash it again, but what did your reports say for that option?
And how about the variation of that option where we stay in but lose the rebate?
I ski a lot but only four times on dreaded dry slopes - three broken thumbs in four visits 😉
Snowboarder converting (a little) to skiing. Boys both ski and my wife just got ski boots to go with her snowboard boots.
Snowboarder converting (a little) to skiing.
Traitor! Enemy of the People! Put his head on a spike 😉
No, no. I am a true believer in snowboarding*, I’m just infiltrating the enemy camp.
*particularly when it’s fresh and deep
2 votes. whether in parliament or another ref, i'm not too fussed tbh, I would put it back to the people, but a free vote in parliament should suffice.And then, it will be a simply choice - a binomial one - accept or move on without a deal. What else do your envisage?
Vote 1. Do you accept this deal, yes or no?
If no, Vote 2. Should we renegotiate or abandon discussions and remain? ( this should probably be put to the people).
how far the negotiation have gone is irrelevant to the democratic principle.
Anything else is anti democratic imo.
if we leave with out this, the illusion of democracy is over imo.
If no, Vote 2. Should we renegotiate or abandon discussions and remain?
?
Just remain
what's the question?teamhurtmore - Member
If no, Vote 2. Should we renegotiate or abandon discussions and remain?
?
[b]?[/b]
[i][I have nothing to add, but thought I'd join in the game of throwing question marks around to make it look like I have something to contribute, but deliberately holding back, hoping that you'll beg me to impart my wisdom.][/i]
?
[i][ insert meaningless winky smiley - let's keep this obtuse ][/i]
?
I just had to look up what phytosanitary controls were.
¿?
The EU-Canada deal slashes tariffs but trade in food is restricted by quotas and phytosanitary controls. There is also no additional access to the single market for financial services based in Canada.One senior EU official said that the British cabinet was still in “cuckoo land” if it believed that the EU would offer anything more.
I guess you are going with the debated ? re whether A50 is binding from our side or not?
I am not convinced that we have an option, but accept that both Barnier and Junker have indicated that there is some room for manoeuvre but just checked with our legal expert who claims it's not clear cut legally.
I assume that we have a lawyer in our midst so will defer to his, her, zees judgement
We don't have an option purely cause may and davis aren't considering it. Hence, democratic fudge.
but just checked with our legal expert who claims it's not clear cut legally.
If the concerned parties (UK gov and EU27) say it can be retracted though, is it even a legal matter, as theres no dissagreement?
I'd guess a document would need to be signed by all agreeing but that would just be a formallity.
I'd guess a document would need to be signed by all agreeing but that would just be a formallity.
Not if it constitutes a treaty change, you then have to worry about all the constitutional paraphernalia that goes with that in the EU27 - automatic referendums?
Well, 'till the new bill is passed, and then a UK subject could challenge the moving, or cancelling, of our exit date in the UK courts. Maybe. Who really knows how that would pan out.
[b]¿[/b]
Hence all the "huffing and puffing" surrounding the amendment writing a date and time on the bill, completely seperate from the existing and more flexible EU A50 process.
The other conundrum that people also aren't considering is, say the Uk parliament approves the deal. Then the EU parliament then rejects it.
What happens there, out on yer ear, extended negotion or an offer to stay in?
Out on yer ear … or delay and amend the deal… again… flexibility needed that our government wants done away with.
The most fun will be when the wallonians(*) reject it, or fail to reach any sort of final decision, by the due date.
*insert other random minor parliamentary body to taste
Not if it constitutes a treaty change
But it doesn't. Just unanimity in the council. That is, agreement from all the national governments. Even that might be a tough call though, if we act up even more in the next year or so.
Not if it constitutes a treaty change, you then have to worry about all the constitutional paraphernalia that goes with that in the EU27 - automatic referendums?
Just a clarification of a clause so if both sides agree it should be interpreted in a particular way then no change is necessary.
It may not even need a formal document above and beyond the UK formally retracting A50 and the EU saying received understood and agreed.
But it doesn't. Just unanimity in the council.
For an extension that would be fine - but I am not sure we are talking about an extension.
*insert other random minor parliamentary body to taste
Scotland?
[i][ does a runner … ][/i]
Just a clarification of a clause so if both sides agree it should be interpreted in a particular way then no change is necessary.
But it is not a clarification if it changes its meaning, so what it means at present is what matters.
And another shot below the water line. As I have been saying all along there is zero chance of a bespoke deal
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/16/leaked-eu-paper-dents-mays-hopes-for-bespoke-brexit-trade-deal
All along the tories / pro leavers on here have been parrotting this rubbish about a bespoke deal. You know - cake and eat it. Its been obvious right from the beginning that this was never going to happen. They have to take something off the shelf. Mays stupid redlines have made a Norway or Switzerland type deal or remaining in efta impossible.
The chances of any sort of deal are now remote tho finally looks like some movement from Mays team on money - but still nothing on citizens that would be remotely acceptable to the EU and of course nothing on NI
Any deal that breaches the good friday agreement will be vetoed by Ireland. Any deal that does not breach it has been ruled out by May and the three numpties
Therefore the chances of any deal are slim to none
The boss of Goldman Sachs has suggested a second EU referendum to confirm there is a consensus in the UK on the “monumental and irreversible” Brexit decision.
Lloyd Blankfein, in his latest intervention via Twitter on Brexit, said there was “lots of handwringing” from chief executives about Brexit and the “tough and risky road ahead”.
“Reluctant to say, but many wish for a confirming vote on a decision so monumental and irreversible. So much at stake, why not make sure consensus still there?”
We shall see. Given that none of the current options satisfy either sides needs its obvious that a new approach is needed. And guess what? The first signs - financial services - already appearing....others will follow.
The EU are past masters at (1) bullying first, (2) compromising in the end unless you are a small periphery nation, then they shit on you from a great height.
tjagain - MemberAny deal that breaches the good friday agreement will be vetoed by Ireland. Any deal that does not breach it has been ruled out by May and the three numpties
Therefore the chances of any deal are slim to none
As a practical aside I've recently noticed that on two local border crossings (one major one) the former HMRC customs sites have been sold and private houses built in their place.
Wonder what happens to the people who's houses will need to be leveled.
but just checked with our legal expert who claims it's not clear cut legally.
But how can this be? You were absolutely unequivocal about this the other day when you lost your rag.
The EU are past masters at (1) bullying first, (2) compromising in the end [u]unless you are a small periphery nation[/u], then they shit on you from a great height.
Well, that's us stuffed then
Why the hell would the EU cut a sweet deal to the UK for leaving? There's there's no ethical or indeed logical motivation for them to do so. They are responsible for the interests of 27, we are only one.
Apparently that's what the the noble brexiters are expecting.. There's a serious logic failure here.
There's a serious logic failure here.
Not exactly going to blame themselves
😆Well, that's us stuffed then
True but some folk still think we are the power house we once were.
David the massive cock Davies calls for cooperation in the name of mutual prosperity.
German journalist: “...why are you leaving?”
😆
You couldn’t make this shit up.
