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yep **** your political allegiances at this point, in the local and EU elections do not vote for any pro brexit candidate, but at this point we need a big turnout in these elections
Yup.
Precisely Mike.
This all goes back to Gordon Brown making a grovelling apology for bigotgate.
Both parties have normalised and made the views of people like that old lady acceptable by pandering to their lunatic fringes.
Macron has the right idea, rubber bullets and tear gas for the dissenters - **** the extremes at all cost.
Yep and thank god for Corbyn making a break from Labour pandering to people like that ladies views. I remember Tom Watson and Yvette Cooper saying mealy mouthed words about immigration "something has to be done" etc in the Ed Milliabnd election campaign and now here we are.
Still most of the blame is with the RW press' lies and the Tories with their dishonest "immigration in the 10s of thousands" pledge. Anna Soubry no doubt used that pledge to help get her elected in her leave voting seat FFS.
I am not sure it is a particularly good thing having people feeling completely disenfranchised from the political system.
Yeah, fair one - long-term I agree, short-term I'm happy to use their disenfranchisement to put a brake on this runaway circus and let's all revisit it with calmer heads.
Macron has the right idea, rubber bullets and tear gas for the dissenters – **** the extremes at all cost.
No he does not, it's a french tactic and what is expected but it's the worst possible way to deal with people - stop being the angry little man hating everybody and work out what the problems are and ffs to quote Thatcher don't bring problems bring solutions.
At no point do I want to see tear gas, rubber bullets and riot police on the streets, it means we have failed.
There are many self interests at work trying to tear apart what we are at the moment, they all have motives and all want division and violence to prove their point. We need to rise above that.
Anna Soubry no doubt used that pledge to help get her elected in her leave voting seat FFS.
Even when a Tory minister, Soubry openly said the migration targets were wrong. As a back bencher before she was last re-elected she praised and supported FoM, and spoke against the migration targets.
Now, having either given up on or been pushed out of that party, she is still fighting to keep FoM… whereas Corbyn and those loyal to him say FoM must end.
Who's fighting for your workers rights? And I mean your rights to work all over the continent.
I thought this interesting:
This was a gathering organised by the Tory think tank Onward - which presented research concluding that age is the new dividing line in British politics and the Conservatives are appealing to fewer and fewer younger people.
Onward's report said 83% of Conservative voters are now over the age of 45 and just 4% are under the age of 24 years old.
"The 'tipping point age' - the median age at which a voter is more likely to be Conservative than Labour - is now 51 years old, up from 47 at the 2017 general election.
"Before the 2017 campaign, the tipping point was 34 years old," it adds.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47872637
Insult everyone then telling them they’re wrong is a renowned tactic for winning landslide victories
I see. Is that why you've spent so much time insulting Corbyn and anyone who doesn't think he's the antichrist?
can't be bothered
Nor am I using Tory as an insult for New Labour and Lib Dem supporters like TJ.
Outright lie. I have never said that,
Can't be bothered to defend Corbyn insisting that FoM must end? Because any "soft Brexit" still hinges on that.
ERG members really going for it today, thumping their chests and threatening to wreck the EU from the inside,
It's almost like we have some sort of influence within the EU rather than them telling us what to do, isn't it.
As a back bencher before she was last re-elected she praised and supported FoM, and spoke against the migration targets
Of all the shitty and nasty thing she has voted for and supported, and opened her mouth at - it's dismaying how you are hand picking anything that will support your argument.
She's a through and through neo-lib free marketeer that would walk across the poor to get to a microphone.
Who’s fighting for your workers rights? And I mean your rights to work all over the continent.
Not really the same workers rights are they. I am a lot more concerned about workers rights for those working in the UK than the right of someone to work in another country.
People will still be able to work in other countries, they will just need suitable job, paperwork etc,. and the numbers of those who would fail to be able to work in other countries is insignificant when compared to any degradation of workers rights in the UK.
Kelvin - thats right because the claim is complete nonsense from the Corbyn haters. the position has evloved and changed.
Not really the same workers rights are they.
Just because you (or indeed most people) have not had to, or chosen to, make use of your rights, does not mean they are not important… as I hope you never have to find out first hand. Auf wiedersehen, pet.
the claim is complete nonsense from the Corbyn haters
"Complete nonsense" is it? Right… so FoM is back on the mythical "table" now is it? Not heard a squeak about that myself… please point me at something to that effect, because it would be a very positive move, in my opinion.
Still hasn't happened yet, I'm beginning to think May is perfect for the job, anyone competent would have sent someone capable to negotiate or done the negotiating themselves and it would all be been done and dusted by now. The longer this all rattles on the softer it's getting and - it still hasn't happened yet.
The main thing I have to fear is my own president or one of the other 27 losing patience.
Still most of the blame is with the RW press’ lies and the Tories with their dishonest “immigration in the 10s of thousands” pledge. Anna Soubry no doubt used that pledge to help get her elected in her leave voting seat FFS.
My emphasis, btw.
That’s the problem we have, right there.
You’ve alleged something plausible to support your case. But you haven’t even bothered to find out if it’s true. At least you admit to that, but you still use something you’ve simply made up to support your case.
People then go on to assume it’s true. Please. Stop it!
Hang on in the last 2 elections she got elected with manifesto pledges of "get immigration in the 10s of thousands" &"respect the brexit vote" its because she knows its wrong that its bad! I have no doubt people voted for her/the conservatives in her constituency because of these pledges.
@ctk up until a few months back we all knew manifesto pledges were fantastic works of fiction and a vague direction to follow. As voters we get to pick the one that most closely aligns with our thoughts.
If we do split the major parties it might help people pick a bit better.
People will still be able to work in other countries, they will just need suitable job, paperwork etc
I don't think you really understand the issue.
SOME people will still be able to work abroad. But that will be the privileged, those whose parents have paid for them to study there, or who have been lucky enough to get a high value specialist job etc etc. It not be available to everyone. Just as it is now for those wishing to go to say the USA. Working abroad will only be easy to those with privilege. This is a bad thing.
The issue with 'getting a suitable job' is that the employer will have to demonstrate that there is no native person who can do the job. Which for most jobs is not possible.
It is also gives the employer massive power over the employee.
No he does not, it’s a french tactic and what is expected but it’s the worst possible way to deal with people – stop being the angry little man hating everybody and work out what the problems are and ffs to quote Thatcher don’t bring problems bring solutions.
Disagree. Europe learnt the hard way that the centre needs to stay united against its common enemies and not engage with political outliers by appeasing and legitimising them
Macron knew that public opinion is fickle and fleeting, by not giving in he knew that public opinion would turn against the gilets gaunes. It did and he appears to have emerged the victor.
big backers apparently with the independents that could make things very interesting.
I've sort of joined the Indies (or Change - UK as they'll probably be known), I'm on a mail list or something anyway and they've asked for donations.
Their application to form a party is still pending, and they've got some backers in the form of former Labour backers, but I'm not sure they've got the infrastructure or people to mount a campaign on a national level.
They're not the same organisation as 'United for Change' (I think anyway) which was a Party that Simon Franks (loveFilm founder) is planning to set-up post-Brexit. Apparently he's got a £50m war-chest to do so, which is a pile of cash - a lot more than either the Tories or Labour would spend in an election year and way, way more than say UKIP.
I'm sure if the Libs and the Indies merged (let's be honest the Lib Dem brand is on it's arse anyway) with backing from Simon Franks they could make a huge difference to UK Politics, but I don't see it, even 'good' Politicians always always want to be in charge, it'll probably end up 3 parties all fighting over the same voters.
This is a bad thing
I can't agree more.
I'm so bored of the 'but you'll just need some paperwork' argument. 17 years ago I had no job, not a lot of money, and was relying on the kindness of family for a place to stay. I answered a job advert and within a week, was in France working. Long story short, had the time of my life, met my partner. It wouldn't of happened if I needed x amount of money or a degree (which I don't have). In fact, it probably wouldn't of happened if there was a delay to get the paperwork done - I needed a job quickly and would have been back in the grind doing something I didn't want to do.
People literally die for a taste of this kind of freedom. It is priceless and you shouldn't wish it away.
Likewise, twice in my life I've needed a job, and I was able to simply apply for EU jobs, get them and move. It took no longer than getting a job in the UK. The jobs were software developer roles so ten a penny. Both were not only vital financially but gave me great experiences I never would have had. These are the experiences that May is banging on about denying us from now on.
In the first job, which was in Finland, the boss deliberately recruited from across Europe because it was a company with pan-European clients and he wanted where possible natives to deal with their biggest clients from those countries. So we both benefitted.
It is also gives the employer massive power over the employee.
It does, and the employee does not get any permanence, so if the employer needs to lay off then you are effectively deported which makes it rather precarious if you want to start a family etc.
People literally die for a taste of this kind of freedom. It is priceless and you shouldn’t wish it away.
& a few months ago it was announced it was ending like it was massive victory. That made my blood boil.
Pop Will Eat Itself drummer had pre emptive revenge for us all!!!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8827569/boris-johnson-beer-dipped-fuzz-townshend/
At no point do I want to see tear gas, rubber bullets and riot police on the streets, it means we have failed.
Sometimes trying to avoid failure doesn't mean compromise, it means appeasement. Some people or groups will never compromise, you only need to look at members of the ERG for that.
Corbyn. Agree with a lot of Labours policies, but really the current leader is the wrong leader, the RW press and the voting system in this country, plus a number of seats in the SNP's hands mean he won't be PM.
If some supporters of Corbyn take the view that a hard brexit is the only way to bring about a change because it will be disastrous, I urge buyer beware, the voter has a habit of voting for the tories even though they are fully aware that doing so is based upon the law of diminishing returns.
I lived 20 years in the UK and I have never earned the 30k which is now necessary. And never been out of work, own a house, married with 3 children.
On another note, can anyone who still think the UK gov will invest a lot of money in the north and Wales, care to have a look at location of those new centers for technology.......
I don’t think you really understand the issue.
I certainly do, it is just not an issue that really bothers me that much (when compared with actual workers rights in the UK) and to call it workers rights is BS.
If some supporters of Corbyn take the view that a hard brexit is the only way to bring about a change because it will be disastrous,
Which Corbyn supporters actually think that?
There is no workers right more fundamental than the right to work.
kerley
Member
If some supporters of Corbyn take the view that a hard brexit is the only way to bring about a change because it will be disastrous,
Which Corbyn supporters actually think that?
Some on the left think a clean break would allow them to be more radical. Not that we need a disaster but that a clean break would allow more radical policies. Utter bullshine of course.
plus a number of seats in the SNP’s hands mean he won’t be PM.
that bit is not true. SNP have made it clear they would do a S&C deal with labour but under no circumstances would they support the tories. so SNP holding a balance of power is no barrier to a labour government. Given that the SNP and labour policies are actually very similar with in some cases the SNP being more radical
I certainly do, it is just not an issue that really bothers me that much (when compared with actual workers rights in the UK) and to call it workers rights is BS.
& yet most of out actual workers rights in the UK have come from EU laws...
ie the 48 hour week
When we leave it to our government we get zero hour contracts.
I know who I trust more with my rights.
Which Corbyn supporters actually think that?
The imaginary ones who the obsessives have invented to convince themselves that they are right. FWIW I don’t know a single Corbyn supporter or left winger who supports Brexit or subscribes to this daft Lexit nonsense. There’s one bloke I know but he seems to hate Corbyn more than the obsessives on here on account of the fact that he’s a bourgeoise collaborator.
Some on the left think a clean break would allow them to be more radical. Not that we need a disaster but that a clean break would allow more radical policies.
Well it's true in theory but in reality the right wing of the country would never let that happen - and dominant as they currently are they would be more likely to take us the other way, of course.
I have no doubt people voted for her/the conservatives in her constituency because of these pledges.
In spite of this some MPs are known to vote against their party on some issues, which suggests a candidate doesn't necessarily support all their party's manifesto pledges.
Dazh
Graham Stringer
The imaginary ones who the obsessives have invented to convince themselves that they are right. FWIW I don’t know a single Corbyn supporter or left winger who supports Brexit or subscribes to this daft Lexit nonsense.
At first I couldn't believe you said that. But then I remembered your posts on here and it made sense.
TJ, the SNP may view it is possible to have a coalition with Labour in a potential future government, but the feeling is not mutual. A lot of this may stem from what I have said earlier about the RW press and their vote labour get SNP statements in the past which don't seem to go down very well in constituencies in England that Labour will need to also win to gain power.
Graham Stringer
The Mark Francois of the Labour Party. He’ll do anything to get on telly or his name in the paper. There are exceptions to every rule.
anagallis_arvensis
Member
Pop Will Eat Itself drummer had pre emptive revenge for us all!!!
Go Fuzz!
PWEI predicted this years ago
El-bent
TJ, the SNP may view it is possible to have a coalition with Labour in a potential future government, but the feeling is not mutual
Not what Corbyn says. To be fair he has absolutely no understanding of scottish politics- I mean, he even congratulated the scottish labour leadership after their insane campaign last time round put the Tories in power.
Go Fuzz!
PWEI predicted this years ago
Yep. They played that tune last on saturday night...sad that its more apt now 🙁
El-bent
TJ, the SNP may view it is possible to have a coalition with Labour in a potential future government, but the feeling is not mutual
SNP have publicly said many times they will NOT go into coalition with labour but would support a minority labour government via supply and confidence. there is zero chance of a coalition.
In those circumstances labour ( short of a majority but largest party)would have no choice unless close enough that a lib dems would do.
SNP are the third largest party at westminster . Likely to gain seats at the next westminster election as well would be my bet.
https://twitter.com/PrebenEUspox/status/1116036048960802817
So they got rid of her so they could pop the fottie on?
Looks like we will get the long extension we don't want, have our wings clipped and get put in a box, this is what control looks like
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1115997289187815426
Sounds on for this one, it's quite beautiful!!
William Hill still offering 10-1 for revoking A50 on/by 13th April.
Go on, you know you want to......
Can't see a revoke yet, long extension so the momentum to do something slows down further.
Yeah revoke relies on there being no extension so the No Deal vs Revoke question is asked with a countdown clock ticking - it's a very risky strategy
Speculation but
It looks like the March 2020 date for end of extension has been thrown out. EU leaders split between Dec 2019 or June 2019 for extension end date
Looks like the 27 really are running out of patience.
For a bit of light relief - this is the funniest thing I have read on brexit
EMERGENCY actions are being put into place to ensure the safety of Scotland and Northern Ireland by adopting them into the EU following the increasingly erratic and potentially dangerous actions by members of their Great British family.
Whereas Wales and England, the older siblings of Scotland And Northern Ireland, both voted to leave the EU and are perfectly happy to do so, the EU is making moves to rescue the ‘poor weans’ in the UK who voted to remain.
With England and Wales violently lurching towards a catastrophic no-deal exit, the EU has ‘made up a bed’ for the Scots and the Nordies and are hoping that in time they will come to think of their new continental brothers and sisters as ‘a real family’.
“We’re expecting some friction when Scotland has to share a room with Germany, but as the years roll on we hope they’ll bond over their mutual love for weird sausages and hating the English,” said Michel Barnier, taking Scotland and NI into care.
“We did everything we could to keep the UK together as a family, but sometimes you just have to make hard decisions in the interest of the kids. It’s disruptive now, but if we left things the way they were then you’d have two whole countries who want to be part of the EU, being victimised and bullied and, well… who knows what might have happened – it’s better this way.
“The UK can have some visitation down the line, if they’ve proved they can be trusted and they haven’t died from their own self-destructive behaviour”.
The Republic Of Ireland had applied for legal guardianship of Northern Ireland, but Mr. Barnier stated that he wasn’t sure they were ‘ready for that level of responsibility just yet’.
Waterfordwispersnews.com
I've been asked to do a couple of songs at a do at the end of June, I have a sneaking suspicion that this choice isn't entirely innocent:
I though May's jacket was a very nice colour tonight, most flattering
Edukator - some more suggestions
Heart
https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=fM44F-M78Vs
Fleetwood Mac
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ul-cZyuYq4
Green Day
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CnQ8N1KacJc
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1116076804945657856
A read from inside the Council room – several leaders have spoken, vast majority in favour of a long extension, with some favouring December and some March of next year. Dutch PM Mark Rutte spoke first. Macron has not spoken yet.
Lots of possibilites, igm, I just play what I'm asked to. I've yet to discuss the detail but my intention is to mix the French lyrics by Fairport Convention with Dylan's lyrics using Dylan's guitar part because the Fairport version sounds sad and it's a festive occasion.
Edit: That Greenday suggestion is excellent, I've just learned to play it while listening - 20 seconds for the strumming sequence and half the song for all the chords. 🙂 There's usually a guitar slung around my neck when I'm on here.
Meanwhile in a country which uses referendums quite a lot.
Swiss court orders historic referendum re-run
Because the voters were misinformed.
Revocation of A50 is one of the few remaining valid options.
It's no more or less risky than any other.
I think if it comes to a crunch of no deal vs revoke, revoke will win.
As Mike said though, it's risky as no deal is technically still a option.
Less risky to grind it out more with an interim extension, the UK is in check, but it's not quite check mate yet. Just play it out a bit longer.
Revocation of A50 is one of the few remaining valid options.
It’s no more or less risky than any other.
Again context is king, if no extension if a available we end up no deal or revoke. There is no time for other options in that situation.
We look to be heading for a long extension to grind it down
Watching Kate Hoey on Newsnight was entertaining. She’s as rabid a Brexiteer as IDS or Rees Mogg.
We keep hearing from the noisy Brexiteers that MPs should represent their constituents and support what they voted for, but her constituents voted 77% remain, in which case, according to her own leaver ethos (and the ERG who she expressed support for), she should be deselected or resign?
Tellingly she also said Corbyn would never support staying in the customs union or the single market.
No shit, Sherlock?
New Brexit day 31st October.
Going to be a great Halloween...
New Brexit day 31st October.
Going to be a great Halloween
Did they give a year?
Not really sure if this makes Brexit more or less likely to happen. I think probably a fair bit less overall as the long extension will knock the momentum out of the process
^^ No,I don't think anyone can be certain of the year or century yet.😁
Typical... what a great way to spoil my birthday... ba*****s
My money is on Groundhog Day, and the Maybot repeating today’s activities at the eleventh hour again in October as we’re basically exactly where we are now
It’s like purgatory
One Tory just said: "Remain has won"
If that happened, I think I'd run out of words. Stunned simply would not cover it.
If I genuinely had to put my own money on it... and I might (anyone know the odds, I'm not a gambling man?) I'd say we are looking at a second referendum now. Every day that goes by makes it look more inevitable.
Edukator - this one fits
We've already said goodnight, If you wanna go then you had better go now!
Tellingly she also said Corbyn would never support staying in the customs union or the single market.
Apart from the facts of course - Corbyn has been pushing hard for that since ages ago
Still - HOey is somewhat deluded. another in the wrong party
I don't think that's fair tbh. She could be seen as a kind of alternative Corbyn, ploughing her own furrow but still mostly along with the spirit of the party. I think delusional is a good way to describe her attitude to brexit, and her hypocrisy is hard to take ("you should represent your constituency if they're brexiteers but not if they're remainers" and "it's terrible that cyclists run red lights, PS please ignore that time I got arrested for running a red light") but that doesn't mean she's in the wrong party- I think she's just in the fine tradition of Labour randos.
The new date makes a "people's vote" very difficult...to persaude enough MPs to support it and then pass the necessary legislation.
Any gammon explosions yet?
Educator, got to be a Clash vs e17 mashup on the stay/go theme.
The new date makes a “people’s vote” very difficult…to persaude enough MPs to support it and then pass the necessary legislation.
Why is that then? Makes it as easy as before just that it becomes a condition of any version of leave we accept to run it past the people. The only thing that will change the balance significantly at this point is a GE
HOey shuld be in UKIP - and should have been thrown out of the labour party. Moving steadily to the right over her time in parliament. Hers is not a left wing objection to the EU - its a xenophobic one.
Agree about Hoey on newsnight openly praising the ERG like that was telling.
She should just join ukip & be done.
Corbyn should have been booted years back too for disloyalty, good to see you are still keeper of the true party lists tj.
Parties just need bums on seats most of the time so long as they fall in line when required.
This is a point where you could look to the US primary idea and a much bigger engagement with the local area if they had a wider preselection stage there is a chance the mps who don't fit would be gone. But that requires a lot more engagement from people at a local level.
Anyway at this stage local and eu elections are the next battlefield to influence Westminster