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English doen't allow me to differentiate between the collective you and invidual you. German has Du, Sie and Ihr.
Scots has you, youse and one - one is rarely used as it’s a bit posh
Why would people be against the government negotiating a FTA deal to ensure our access to the single market? Among odd behaviour, that would be very odd indeed
QT is on tonight, the audience as usual will be lining up to say
'look how many German cars are on our roads---- TNUMTWNT !!!'
IGM - polls for what they are worth indicate otherwise
Help me out, the polls I’ve seen from most of the broadsheets suggest virtually no one things there's going to be a good deal and more people think leaving is a bad idea than good (though the second one is closer and has some volatility)
Got a good link to current poll of polls that disagrees with me - I have been wrong before.
To your question, because no one believes that with their current approach they’ll get one worth having.
(And if we get one we’ll have to comply with a sack load of EU regulations and directives with no say I how they are constructed)
A nice cosy couch is what you seem to need Ed. I hope you feel better soon.
Why would people be against the government negotiating a FTA deal to ensure our access to the single market?
Because it is certain to be shitter than what we currently have. If the Govt confiscated my house I wouldn't be obsequiously sucking up to them in the hope that they allow me a cardboard box to live in.
Because it is certain to be shitter than what we currently have. If the Govt confiscated my house I wouldn't be obsequiously sucking up to them in the hope that they allow me a cardboard box to live in.
do you even read the tabloids brah?
THM
A poll of polls site
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/uk-poll-results/
Read what you like into it. I think I’ll stick to my statement, you may wish to review yours.
A nice cosy couch is what you seem to need Ed. I hope you feel better soon.
That's very kind, the couch is sumptuous leather with a fancy recline mechanism. Not sure how you knew I'm nursing a cold but I appreciate the good wishes all the same.
Get well soon
Captain of course it is worse than what we have. That’s why most of us here voted remain. The leavers have already been bullied off the forum
But we lost and so we are leaving. Personally I hope that they HM Gov is able to negotiate a FTA with a suitable transition period. That is what they are currently doing so fingers crossed. They are negotiating with people who don’t want to negotiate and also need to ensure that we are worse off but that their money is protected. Not easy.
“Serously, what have you (lot) contributed in recent years:
A sub prime crisis
Speculative attacks on Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain and even the UK going back a bit further
Tax evasion on a huge scale
Asset stripping of viable industries and businesses
predatory takeovers
speculative bubbles
the formation of cartels and monopolistic positions
government spending baling out incompetent finance houses and banks”
And a big slice of govt’s tax take!
Which leavers have been bullied off the forum THM?
All of them - hence a remainer like me becomes the target 😀
And from another thread
midlifecrashes - Member
All this abuse of chewkw is blatant internet bullying and some of you should have a look at yourselves. I like his alternative views he brings, but if I didn't, I wouldn't be throwing this abuse at him
It'll all be over by Christmas!
Read what you like into it. I think I’ll stick to my statement, you may wish to review yours.
Whilst the polls suggest people are unhappy with the Brexit process, you are making the assumption that this leads to people changing their voting intention were there to be another referendum. However, when you look at the polls on that question (the site you linked has them) there hasn't actually been very much movement, which suggests it is not a valid assumption.
As far as Northern Ireland is concerned, it is of course a potentially difficult issue, however the extent of the issue is partially defined by where we get to on trade. It seems utterly bizarre to try and solve the problem before you know the extent of it.
I'm well aware that STW is a predominantly British based forum and as such whatever happens in Ireland might as well be on the moon...
FWIW two of my drinking buddies are "n'orn irish" and both voted Leave. Before the vote I asked them about the potential issues with the Irish border and neither of them thought it would be a major issue.
But A50 is what it is - not much in itself, about 250 words IIRC and pretty bland stuff. Para 2 is important though
I'll provide it since no one else has:
Article 501. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it. A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
([url= https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/228848/7310.pdf#page=40 ]Source: HM Gov[/url])
This may also help:
https://www.politico.eu/article/article-50-brexit-europe-annotated-with-comments-from-its-author-lord-kerr-theresa-may/
Guys, honestly. Install the blocking script.
Not having to read THM's smug, sanctimonious, condescending drivel makes for a far more pleasurable forum experience.
As far as Northern Ireland is concerned, it is of course a potentially difficult issue, however the extent of the issue is partially defined by where we get to on trade. It seems utterly bizarre to try and solve the problem before you know the extent of it
Unless of course you are using this as a deliberate tactic to delay negotiations. Then it makes perfect sense
Mefty - there’s a small but decisive shift.
You need to be careful with the dates, but basically prior to June this year folk were sticking to the leave decision but since then leave have never been ahead.
Still close of course
PS - if advanced years blur the vision, then switching the don’t knows off may help. (I know your about 5-10 years older than me and my vision is now pants)
You're falling into the medai trap and beliveing the anti-Eu propaganda, THM. All those lies about bendy bananas and such have got to you. The EU wants to know what's happening to the EU border before trade talks start (I for one think that's a very good idea) and you in bad faith say "deliberate tactic to delay negotiations".
You are a remainer (I believe you when you say this after recent confirmations) who hates the EU.
As far as Northern Ireland is concerned, it is of course a potentially difficult issue, however the extent of the issue is partially defined by where we get to on trade. It seems utterly bizarre to try and solve the problem before you know the extent of it
part of the problem is that the gov is totaly split on what they want out of trade
as posted by PJM1974 on other thread...
influential Tory European Research Group, chair by Suella Fernandes (& chum of patel) repeats the german car tnumtwnt rationale for no deal in an interview on conhome...
https://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2017/07/interview-the-double-hatted-suella-fernandes-a-member-of-the-government-and-a-pro-brexit-group-leader.html
german cars & tnumtwnt- the exact same line that you here from an angry brexie on QT each week
The EU only want sufficent progress, there can be none until we can decide what wed like- FTA or not
we are our own worst enemy
As far as Northern Ireland is concerned, it is of course a potentially difficult issue, however the extent of the issue is partially defined by where we get to on trade.
How so mefty?
As I understand it the crux of the issue is around FoM vs border security. Even if we negotiate an open FTA with the EU, those problems will still exist.
GrahamS - Member
I'm well aware that STW is a predominantly British based forum and as such whatever happens in Ireland might as well be on the moon...FWIW two of my drinking buddies are "n'orn irish" and both voted Leave. Before the vote I asked them about the potential issues with the Irish border and neither of them thought it would be a major issue.
Look at the way NI voted. IIRC every county or constituency which shares a border with the Republic voted remain. In short, people who knew their day to day lives could be effected voted remain.
The areas which voted leave are the ones furthest away from any borders, the ones who's lives will have the least impact on a practical day to day level. There are entire towns, villages and communities in NI who's entire culture and identity is defined by how British they are, or probably more precisely how un-Irish they are.
Thanks to Russian bribes, the DUP decided to back the leave campaign and portrayed it as a way to make NI more British, and no doubt this appealed to obstinate contrarians.
When has the UK argued for no deal?
Stop listening to the nutters and their spokesmen and look at what is actually happening
We are negotiating a FTA.
We are negotiating a FTA.
Link please
When has the UK argued for no deal?
Isn't there a Select Committee listening to evidence about whether No Deal is a good or bad thing?
When has the UK argued for no deal?Stop listening to the nutters and their spokesmen and look at what is actually happening
We are negotiating a FTA.
every day we dont agree the exit bill is a day nearer to no deal?
It is indeed. So we need to get going. Unfortunately one side wants to delay this as much as possible.
Ed please put a smiley after joke questions as it might be misunderstood as a serious question
The leavers have already been bullied off the forum
No, they repeatedly posted nonsense and were repeatedly called out for it. They're quite entitled to their opinions, they're just not entitled for those opinions to be taken as fact.
And a big slice of govt’s tax take!
Nowhere near as much as it should be, and you damn well know that.
No, they repeatedly posted nonsense and were repeatedly called out for it.
No much worse. And look at the BS the bullies post on a daily basis and then complain when they get called out for it. Bullying and hypocrisy combined.
How so mefty?
The two big issues are trade and FOM. Trade is dependent upon the FTA, FOM could be relatively easily solved by having a special regime for movement between Ireland and NI. Providing there are sensible restrictions, it will only apply to a relatively small population.
Bullying and hypocrisy combined.
Well, you'd know a fair bit about both of those things
Pot kettle black
Nowhere near as much as it should be, and you damn well know that.
I gosh-darned well don’t!
Still a lot more than if the industry wasn’t here, of course! And if it was much more, would they be? Dilemma!
FOM could be relatively easily solved
But if that part is easy to solve then why is it such a big obstacle that is blocking the later talks?
it will only apply to a relatively small population.
An estimated 30,000 people cross that border every day for their work.
http://www.factcheckni.org/facts/do-30000-people-cross-ireland-northern-ireland-border-daily/
Mefty - there’s a small but decisive shift.
To close to call in my view so not decisive.
£70bn in tax revenues that the EU govs want to get their hands on
30,000 is a small population in the context of the UK and even smaller in the context of the EU. Giving them special treatment shouldn't put much strain on either entity.
Still a lot more than if the industry wasn’t here, of course! And if it was much more, would they be? Dilemma!
No dilema for the EU, get rid of the UK and getting tax in gets easier for Germany and France in particular.
teamhurtmore - Member
It is indeed. So we need to get going. Unfortunately one side wants to delay this as much as possible.
thatd be the side that comit to the exit bill then?
maybe Mays waiting until shes trong & stable enough to take the domestic flak of admitting itll cost 60bn.... any minute now
Stop listening to the nutters and their spokesmen
Who's that then, theresa may and the tories? 😆
mefty - Member
30,000 is a small population in the context of the UK and even smaller in the context of the EU. Giving them special treatment shouldn't put much strain on either entity.
precedents though innit, next thing you know the catalans will want something similar....
mefty: I agree it is a small [i]relative[/i] population, but the question remains: if it is so easy to sort out then why is it also such a stumbling block?
If we have an open border between NI and the Republic then it is sorted, but then we have to have a harder border between NI and the rest of the UK.
Will we end up with a migrant/refugee camp at Larne equivalent to the one at Calais? Or folk trying to sneak boats across the 20km of sea from Torr to Mull of Kintyre?
mefty - Member30,000 is a small population in the context of the UK and even smaller in the context of the EU.
That 30,000 number is an estimate by the EU commission into of the number of NI workers going into the republic each. There's probably an equal number of people making the opposite journey and triple that number making the same journey for trade and daily tasks.
The office for national statistics estimates that there 118,000 vehicle border crossings a day and 110 million border crossings a year.
Where I live there are 330,000 cross border journeys a week.
Giving them special treatment shouldn't put much strain on either entity.
You can't "give them special treatment". People either have freedom of movement or they don't. And if they don't people will start killing. And if there's freedom of movement that means EU nationals who arrive in Dublin will be free to enter the UK.
Anyone done the cyprus border crossing?
its not exactly fun (actually the guards on the turkish side were a laugh)
mefty: I agree it is a small relative population, but the question remains: if it is so easy to sort out then why is it also such a stumbling block?
The EU's issue is "integrity of the single market and the customs union", so that is a trade issue hence why where we get to on trade is important. I think the people issue is much easier if you have a special regime that gives FOM to the NI and the Irish. Afterall we have been making a special case for the Irish ever since independence. apart from a hiatus during and after WWII.