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Mefty - agree with the staying in education statement.
Overall lies, damn lies and statistics is the moral I think.
Overall lies, damn lies and statistics is the moral I think.
I don't agree because what has happened is an inevitable consequence of being stuck in a currency union with a much a stronger economy, which does not transfer its surpluses. These wonderful thoughtful kind leaders think it worth potential sacrificing a generation for the survival of their political project - sounds pretty ideological to me.
it's not like we'd neglect vast swathes of our population and condemn them to living in an even more depressed state for the sake of some vanity project. oh.
Mefty - on that basis the leadership in this country are as bad as anywhere else based on the ratio - which may not be news but is nowt to do with the EU either way. In fact we were worse 10 years ago (relative to others - not in absolute terms).
Also I remember being at university in Italy and I was a couple of years younger than the Italians, so the youth (15-25) unemployment rate would naturally look higher in Italy because a larger percentage of that group would naturally be in education.
I don't agree because what has happened is an inevitable consequence of being stuck in a currency union with a much a stronger economy, which does not transfer its surpluses. These wonderful thoughtful kind leaders think it worth potential sacrificing a generation for the survival of their political project - sounds pretty ideological to me.
Careful there mefty - that is not the edukated view 😉
also don't discount different ways of counting unemployed ( dunno if its been mentioned) Unemployed in the official UK gov sense is " claiming jobseekers allowance" thus excluding those such as one half of a couple who would like to work but cant get a job or claim benefit, there are many folk still on various sick and disability benefits who would work if they could, students in summer holidays and others. I don't know the methodology in other countries but I believe they count more of these sorts of groups by an large and again IIRC the UKs methodology undercounts more than others.
PS - for any stat there is an equal and opposing stat (Newton’s 3rd law of statistics). The trick is understanding the basis and context of the stats. To understand those unemployment rates & ratios you need to understand the culture in the areas concerned. I have a little understanding of what 18 year olds do in Italy because I was one. Also in the UK. I’d be very slow to grab the rate as a true indicator - it will in Italy at least be closer to the ratio.
The real crime is that in the UK, and possibly other places, the unemployment of the youth, by rate or ratio is 2 or 3 times that if the general population.
Also Shakespeare’s comment on stats is relevant - it even has a European trade connection 😉
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
These wonderful thoughtful kind leaders think it worth potential sacrificing a generation for the survival of their political project - sounds pretty ideological to me.
The irony of this on the brexit thread.
I don't agree because what has happened is an inevitable consequence of being stuck in a currency union with a much a stronger economy, which does not transfer its surpluses.
You mean like the UK, and its treatment of the regions?
You're wrong TurnerGuy I think the core values of the EU are fundamentally the right thing to do and carping on about the sanctity of the "nation state" is pathetic. It's time to grow up.
The EU is neo-liberal and seems very skewed towards globalisation, the benefit of corporations, and the exploitation of a cheap workforce.
Just look at the contents of TTIP for one thing - OK it isn't going to get through, but the fact that they drafted it with that content and in secrecy, and then increased the secrecy with Greenpeace leaked it, sums it up for me.
As for the bill, cannot you see the EU is in the far stronger position so they just have to sit on their hands and wait, they don't need to engage?
Bills can normally be itemized, you wouldn't pay a resturant bill if they just plucked a number out of the air.
It is just pathetically incompetent.
Turnerguy - as has been shown repeatedly the EU is more democratic than the UK.
my vote is lost within so many and so diluted with the citizens of Malta having multiple times my voting power that it effectively isn't. Again, has Corbyn been so wrong all these years?
Perhaps if you'd paid attention at primary school you'd know that.
Take a long look at yourself...
ah you're back. well done!
you said:
What's also pathetic is all you remainers semm to care about is whether it is hitting you financially and being able to move around freely, not any political principles
you're either demonstrably wrong on that (read back ...), or you think everyone who responded is lying.
which is it?
simple question.
@TurnerGuy, you had a good number of responses to this, are you ready to concede you are mistaken?
I take it that's a joke ?
Where are the nurses going to come from? this is a real issue
where did they come from before, I wonder?
I met someone who worked in the NHS that reckoned the quality of staff went down once it had been diluted by EU staff compared to the previous sources of staff...
And is is not racist to discriminated against those from outside the EU? At least brexit will put everything on a level playing field for all immigration. What is so special about people from the EU?
No its blindingly obvious folk care for a myriad of reasons not least because they have just stated them.
Perhaps if you'd paid attention at primary school you'd know that.
Take a long look at yourself...
I think you could have only made that more ironic if you had offered to meet him on the playground for a fight
Only in the "sense" its racist to give someone from scotland more freedom than someone from Peru. What is so special about Scotland. Why can someone from Yorkshire move to Kent? is that not racist as well?is is not racist to discriminated against those from outside the EU?
I do like the I want to stop all immigrants coming here so I am fairer and less racist line of argument
Its a great insight into the average Brexiies voters critical faculties
Just look at the contents of TTIP for one thing - OK it isn't going to get through,
dont worry the tories will be signing us up to something similar once free of the 'shackles' of the EU
result!
dont worry the tories will be signing us up to something similar once free of the 'shackles' of the EUresult!
the thing is if the tories overstep the mark too much they will just get voted out, the EU is so entrenched that that would be virtually impossible.
I take it that's a joke ?
on us I suspect.
Troll of the day, well done.
-double post-
It's not over just yet
[url= https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/a50-chall-her-e50/?utm_reference=3c09b057d48d899e4ef1eaef0bb6f708&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=post_pledge_popup&utm_campaign=a50-chall-her-e50&utm_source=backer_social ]Article 50 Challenge[/url]
TurnerGuy - MemberAnd is is not racist to discriminated against those from outside the EU?
Correct.
it's a particularly pathetic argument this, one beloved of UKIP though and I can see why it gets traction. But it amounts to "some people get a better deal than others. We will ensure that everyone gets an equally bad deal". EU freedom of movement was not costing anyone from the ROW anything in terms of movement or opportunity. Taking it away will not improve it for anyone else.
it's a particularly pathetic argument this
in your opinion, I've seen people from outside the EU use it as well.
And?
It's not over just yet
Article 50 Challenge
Parliament voted for it.
from the link
Immediately after the Supreme Court ruled that no decision had been made – the government took the “decision” as read. Speaking about the rushed Brexit Bill, David Davis could not have been clearer that it was nothing to do with Leave or Remain. He said, that it was: "not a Bill about whether the UK should leave the European Union or, indeed, about how it should do so; it is simply about Parliament empowering the Government to implement a decision already made—a point of no return already passed.”On this issue, Professor Grayling says: “We feel that the difference between the asking Parliament to make the actual decision and asking Parliament for permission to notify a decision already made is not technical, but fundamental”
The case is based on triggering A50 being "unconstitutional".
I would think, since Parliament voted for it, that's not going to fly. Seems a tree that will bear no fruit to me.
The referendum happened and Article 50 happened. I'd love it to be stopped, and I don't think that's impossible, but I can't see this being the way.
I'd be happy if you and they are right though.
TTIP is an excellent example of why having the UK within the EU is good for British citizens.
Westminster supported TTIP even after the EU sidelined it.
Happy trolling
In fact we were worse 10 years ago
So why have we improved relatively? Might it possibly because we are not so constrained in our economic policy?
would naturally look higher in Italy because a larger percentage of that group would naturally be in education.
I did a broadbrush analysis of the total of people in tertiary education over the population as a whole, we are at a similiar percentage to Germany and France (between 3.58% and 3.65%), Spain is a bit higher (4,23%) and Italy (3.01%) is an equivalent amount lower. Obviously you would need to look at demographics to get a more accurate picture.
So why have we improved relatively?
Is it because of the Eu or do they just get the blame for bad things and we take the credit for good things?
Just look at the contents of TTIP for one thing - OK it isn't going to get through, but the fact that they drafted it with that content
Not this again.
I can't understand why you would cite the content of TTIP, a deal that the UK gov was massively in favour of but the EU refused to sign, as an example of how terrible the EU is.
Because reason has left the building.
I can't understand why you would cite the content of TTIP, a deal that the UK gov was massively in favour of but the EU refused to sign, as an example of how terrible the EU is.
Some members of the EU refused, but it was the EU itself that came up with it:
Yet when I asked the trade commissioner how she could continue her persistent promotion of the deal in the face of such massive public opposition, her response came back icy cold: “I do not take my mandate from the European people.”So who does Cecilia Malmström take her mandate from? Officially, EU commissioners are supposed to follow the elected governments of Europe. Yet the European Commission is carrying on the TTIP negotiations behind closed doors without the proper involvement European governments, let alone MPs or members of the public. British civil servants have admitted to us that they have been kept in the dark throughout the TTIP talks, and that this makes their job impossible.
In reality, as a new report from War on Want has just revealed, Malmström receives her orders directly from the corporate lobbyists that swarm around Brussels. The European Commission makes no secret of the fact that it takes its steer from industry lobbies such as BusinessEurope and the European Services Forum, much as a secretary takes down dictation. It's no wonder that the TTIP negotiations are set to serve corporate interests rather than public needs.
Is it because of the Eu or do they just get the blame for bad things and we take the credit for good things?
As it is a comparison with other EU countries, it is probably smart to look for a differentiating factor rather than a common one.
it was the EU itself that came up with it
That's not the way negotiations work. The US made proposals and the EU offered counterproposals.
The most controversial stuff regarding ISDS, and changes to environmental, consumer protection and public health standards came from the US proposals and were [i]opposed[/i] by the EU.
If it was up to the UK alone we'd have signed it already.
If it was up to the UK alone we'd have signed it already.
This.
Its pretty dumb for somebody to be using this argument against the EU, when the UK wanted to sign up to it.
To quote Germany's Economy Minister, [url= https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-usa-ttip-germany/germanys-economy-minister-u-s-eu-free-trade-talks-have-failed-idUSKCN1130FB ]Sigmar Gabriel back in August 2016[/url]:
[i]"The negotiations with the USA have de facto failed because we Europeans did not want to subject ourselves to American demands,"[/i]
Its rather unedifying watching him try I feel embarrassed for him.
I've spent the week sampling our European Union via an Erasmus project.
Firstly it reminded me of what we stand to lose in terms of friendship, collaboration, learning, trade and opportunities. Massive. This project is worth £80k to my organisation, and we have another two just starting. The outcomes and knowledge we have shared this week will help my employer really take the lead nationally in a specific area, worth even more in trade for future years and benefit to young children across the UK - to the benefit of all UK society.
It also reminded me of the EU bureaucracy. Some of our partners had brought cash to pay for thier costs of the week long event, as they claim costs to EU individually rather than a block grant. That said, there's a really, really good reason why they ask have thier own travel and costs allowance to attend training - it's just odd knowing EU are happy for cash to be used for a total bill in the thousands.
Overall, this week has highlighted the benefit of the EU membership to me. Can we please change our mind?
Anyway, next meeting is Estonia and I'm looking forward to trying to hire a bike and head into the forest on the spare day I have over there...
As it is a comparison with other EU countries, it is probably smart to look for a differentiating factor rather than a common one.
You were arguing it was the EUs fault re unemployment and not nation states and Kimbers and others challenged you on this
Now you seem to be accepting its nothing to do with the EU but the fault of nation states - which was the point of my statement.
The referendum happened and Article 50 happened.
sshh, there are some sensitive folk around
Best not to mention the direct link between € and unemployment esp on a Friday evening
You were arguing it was the EUs fault re unemployment and not nation states and Kimbers and others challenged you on this
Now you seem to be accepting its nothing to do with the EU but the fault of nation states - which was the point of my statement.
Neither, actually, my argument is that it is down to the Euro, which doesn't apply to certain EU states and is therefore a differentiating factor.
Kimbers just went off on a sidetrack backed by misleading data - plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Oh eck * we are in trouble now
(Amusingly autocorrects to ECJ 😉 )
Oh eck * we are in trouble now
Not really I'm off to the pub in a minute.