[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Already there !!

my argument

Just as I leave, I should say it is hardly my argument, it is one widely made by far better educated people than me from all sides of the political spectrum and all sides of the Brexit debate.

Neither, actually, my argument is that it is down to the Euro, which doesn't apply to certain EU states and is therefore a differentiating factor.

Indeed - but someone on here was making out that the Euro was a reason we have to leave the EU!

Research paper by City University of London identified a network of 13,493 bots were used to tweet Pro Leave messages in the run up to the referendum.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/a-suspected-network-of-13000-twitter-bots-pumped-out-pro

Kimbers just went off on a sidetrack backed by misleading data

I take your point,

Its no wonder I am confused.

As for the Euro I only hope that there is a point in time when folk stop predicting its demise

ah yes , i remember the Pesetas and La lira being such strong currencies ( no need to devaluate them every other year) , and the low numbers of people unemployed in Spain and Italy .........

As for the Euro I only hope that there is a point in time when folk stop predicting its demise

Reminds me of the colleague in seasonal forecasting who predicted 9 of the last 3 El Ninos.

Kimbers just went off on a sidetrack backed by misleading data - plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

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Already there !!

Strange. When I am in the pub I tend to talk to my real friends, not my internet chums. Tell us where you’re at and someone might be able to swing over and cheer you up.

my vote is lost within so many and so diluted with the citizens of Malta having multiple times my voting power that it effectively isn't.

I'll try again, just in case you did actually attend any form of schooling. It's quite simple...

So, just how much weight does your vote carry in these three situations:

1) General election for House of Commons; you are a right wing voter in a constituency that has the following voting pattern: 24% greens, 25% libs, 25% labour, 26% UKIP (Tories chose not to stand and split the vote)

2) An election for the UK's upper house

3) An election for the UKs head of state

You still quite sure the EU is so anti democratic?

the data to which you said
[quote}I take your point,

The fact I quoted someone else's post would I hope be sufficient to make it clear to whom I was responding - IGM clearly understood - but I will try to be more diligent in my signposting.

24% greens, 25% libs, 25% labour, 26% UKIP (Tories chose not to stand and split the vote)

So a completely unrealistic constituency.

I'll try again, just in case you did actually attend any form of schooling. It's quite simple

yes please keep going, I barely got any CSEs so any help you can give will be gratefully ignored...

The fact I quoted someone else's post would I hope be sufficient to make it clear to whom I was responding

I barely got any CSEs

It shows...

gratefully ignored...

If you spent less time ignoring facts and more time paying attention to them, you might learn something 💡

So a completely unrealistic constituency.

Alright, let's do 33% Lab, 33% Plaid, 34% Tory.

I note that as usual, the main point is evading you. Through intent or ignorance I'm not sure...

If you spent less time ignoring facts and more time paying attention to them, you might learn something

You would be wiise to take heed of those words rather than throwing them in the wrong direction.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/a-suspected-network-of-13000-twitter-bots-pumped-out-pro?utm_term=.bbo8Omd2ra#.kt8jyePLX2

They're still there accounts with an attractive lady profile pic

All they do is retweet Express or RT articles...

Take a look at Patriot Brit (@PatrioticBrits): https://twitter.com/PatrioticBrits?s=09

If you spent less time ignoring facts and more time paying attention to them, you might learn something

I'm not ignoring facts, just you 🙂

You would be wiise to take heed of those words rather than throwing them in the wrong direction.

With the questions over bots, Banks finances, dodgy loans etc.

How much needs to happen before the votes validity is questioned?

Too much

The viote has happened

The grown ups got involved this week. Wel’ll pay a bit more and we will be talking trade by December

😯

It's amazing how someone can just spectacularly miss/ignore the point.

Repeatedly.

Cue some patronising and condescension.

We all know it takes effort on his part to do this.

The viote has happened

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/01/africa/kenya-election/index.html

Doesn't mean it can't be annulled if the evidence points to corruption, which is what is becoming clearer in the UK.

Honestly attempts to overthrow the result are a waste of time. Remember, it was only advisory and parliament voted for A50 anyway. We should stop brexit because it's a bloody stupid idea, not because of some technical loophole...

If the objective is to get another vote then one needs two things

1. Doubts about the "democaracy" of the first vote
2. Evidence the populus feels differently today than when they voted.

I am not saying it will work but that is what you need.

“Brexit’s idiotic. It’ll be like committing suicide by walking into a door over and over again for years, leavers are imbeciles.”

Malcolm Tucker..

mefty - Member

In fact we were worse 10 years ago

So why have we improved relatively? Might it possibly because we are not so constrained in our economic policy?

would naturally look higher in Italy because a larger percentage of that group would naturally be in education.

I did a broadbrush analysis of the total of people in tertiary education over the population as a whole, we are at a similiar percentage to Germany and France (between 3.58% and 3.65%), Spain is a bit higher (4,23%) and Italy (3.01%) is an equivalent amount lower. Obviously you would need to look at demographics to get a more accurate picture.

Ah, beware Mefty my young padawan. If the same percentage do tertiary, but tertiary starts a bit later, then the percentage in education in the 15-24 range (which appears to be the definition of youth - other definitions may be available) will be larger even though the overall tertiary is the same. And that would account for the relative differences in the unemployment rate and ratio.

In fact the numbers you flag up counter the earlier suggestion that more folk decide to stay in education to avoid unemployment - that would show up as a larger percentage of the total population and with the exception perhaps of Spain your numbers don’t show that. That I find more surprising as I would think a higher unemployment rate would encourage people to stay in education - but perhaps the “real” unemployment rates aren’t that different.

Lastly - why are we relatively better than ten years ago? Don’t know but given the Euro had been around for 12 years at that time, one would have expected any effects to already be in play even then.

I didn't realize you thought your experience of older students implied they started later, whilst that may have been the case when you came across it, my guess is that this was mainly down to National Service which is pretty rare these days (Germany still has it), but common in those days. My experience probably around the same time was many in Holland spent longer than necessary at university, hence I had a common experience so they would enter the world of work in their mid to late 20s. However, the system was changed drastically. So I am not convinced.

one would have expected any effects to already be in play even then.

Not at all, the strictures of the Euro would only come into play when the relevant country needed a different monetary policy, which would develop over time as economies diverge (or indeed converge) pretty silly to suggest otherwise.

[url= https://medium.com/@MrWeeble/who-actually-trades-solely-under-wto-rules-1b6127ce33c6 ]Which counties trade using "WTO rules" only?[/url]

Well I imagine with the increasing use of zero hours contracts we are well on the way to emulating the slavery figures of Mauretania but sadly we don't have the iron ore to export. Jam maybe.

Not at all, the strictures of the Euro would only come into play when the relevant country needed a different monetary policy, which would develop over time as economies diverge (or indeed converge) pretty silly to suggest otherwise.

Not suggesting otherwise st all. Just suggesting that effect would most likely already have been seen after 12 years - particularly as there is no equal and opposite effect in the way you define it.

The older students in Italy was because they started later - I think they left school later.

I think the brexies only like the jam export thing on the hopes they can bring gollywogs back!

In the meantime everyone's debating who leaked details of May's latest EU dinner.

The sad thing is no one is questioning the picture painted of May;
Weak and desperate, boxed in by her own party, or that the UK is reduced to begging for a trade deal.

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Dennis 😆 🙄

I'm not ignoring facts, just you

Yeah, my three year old daughter does that too when she's in the wrong

You would be wiise to take heed of those words rather than throwing them in the wrong direction.

Sorry, I should have directed them at you.

Well that first letter writer certainly has a good point. Clearly, the EU hasn't done a single good thing in its entire existence, as is easily confirmed by typing "what has the eu ever done for us" into your favourite search engine.

translation of the article

https://medium.com/@ninaschick/brexit-negotiations-not-without-pain-cb3705974bd6

doesnt sound that controversial, all pretty much obvious really (whether its genuine or not)

Sorry, I should have directed them at you.

Feel free, always happy to have a laugh. But you are way behind the tag team.

Well I imagine with the increasing use of zero hours contracts we are well on the way to emulating the slavery figures of Mauretania but sadly we don't have the iron ore to export.

Why all the attention on ZHCs when it represents <3% of UK workforce some/many of whom want the flexibility of ZHCs? Easy headlines?

why so dismissive of ~3 million people who don't know if they're going to get work from one day to the next?
perhaps you regard it as a lifestyle choice?

If people on ZHCs prefer that system, then no harm in offering them the option to regularise their hours...

interstingly the Bregretters that are being mentioned regards a 2nd referendum are from the lowest income brackets as the financial squeeze of the vote hurts, while middle class Levaers remain committed to the cause

I assume that those on ZHCs fall into the former category

I'm not. Simply avoiding framing conclusions about the uK employment market on the basis on one small segment of it. It's called perspective.

For some it is a lifestyle choice. For others it isn't. So even within the 3% you have some for whom ZHC is a choice they want to have.

The more I hear talk of a 2nd ref the less I like the idea. Maybe it would be "obvious" that the best choice is to stay in the EU, but it was obvious enough first time round too.

We've already lit the bridges now, might as well let them burn eh? 😉