Forum menu
People like mrmo talking the country down and stubbornly looking facts in the face are ruining Brexit.
People like mrmo talking the country down and stubbornly looking facts in the face are ruining Brexit.
I humbly beg your mercy for my traitorous thoughts, double plus good.
3 hail Borris and pray to Govey
Gover demands self-flagellation , nothing else will satisfy him & Sarah Vine
To get everything up and running for March 2019, it simply isn't going to happen.
I've got a friend who is quite senior in a major government dept that is going to be hugely impacted by Brexit.
They have recruited and are continuing to recruit more staff to develop the IT systems etc to try to replicate the present integrated EU systems. this is obviously going to cost billions. However, due to the present political limbo, rudderless drifting and total lack of direction or leadership, they're all sat around twiddling their thumbs as they've absolutely no idea what it is they're actually meant to be doing
Still.... I'm sure it'll all be fine.....
meanwhile in the Department for a Full Understanding of Continuing Kicking Off with the EU
[img] 
[/img]
So as expected Merkel throws May a bone in the form of some kind words ( My guess is thats what May pleaded for in the phone call to Merkel) but if you look deeper nothing has changed. Still no progress on the 3 key issues especially the NI border which attracted some very harsh words from the republic.
this will allow the right wing press to lead tomorrow with " Breakthru" and" victory is close" tomorrow but the reality is the only thing that is closer is the cliff edge
they're giving her a little puff to help her appear a little less weak at home. instability in the UK benefits nobody and I suspect they'd still have us stay.
Looks like Jezza has got an "intervention" underway with Barnier....
More empty words from May and still no progress.
Merkel, Macron and Tusk being nothing more than polite; 'amused tolerance' will give way to publicly expressed frustration from national leaders.
What a mess.
The 2 year "transition/implementation" - if I was a business looking to relocate out of the UK I'd want that as it means I can do it orderly not in a flap.
It'll be dressed up as a victory for May but it's an EU win.
She'll have to bend over on the bill first though. Likely she will.
We're shafted.
I'm 50, established and lucky enough to live in a nice part of the country too, I can ride it out, but for the young going through college now this is a disaster. Legs cut from beneath the economy simultaneously with their rights to freely live and work in the world's biggest FTA being removed, and they didn't even get to vote on it. Perfect storm.
They should be furious.
Furious doesn't even begin to describe my 13 year old daughters attitude to it. She feels like the boomers have sold the young down the river
She said that retired people shouldn't have been allowed to vote, as they won't be around to live with the long term economic damage this whole debacle will cause, and the voting age should have been lowered to 16.
I agree with her completely
Having said that, so do my 70 year old mum and dad, who are also appalled by the selfish short-sightedness of their peers
This decision should have been in the hands of the economically active who are going to have to pick up the (huge) tab for the whole sorry mess
My 11 year old was in tears as he’s already decided he wants to work in France.
If it doesn’t include freedom of movement of labour we should send our government back to renegotiate.
i'm not sure that only allowing people who have a job to vote is the answer, however much we want the right result.
there are a lot of disaffected in this country. many of them voted the way they did to register their protest at the shitness of it all. can't blame them TBH.
it's a good job no one thinks we're a laughing stock yet .... oops, cat has now left the bag, jumped on the Eurostar and got the f*** out of it.
Being unhappy about the status quo is fine but voting for this as a method of addressing this is daft,there are a lot of disaffected in this country. many of them voted the way they did to register their protest at the shitness of it all. can't blame them TBH.
It was not a protest vote about the establishment in the UK and how they look after the 1% it was a vote that gave them more power to do this by voting for the type of people/agenda who only care about the 1 % so I personally I can blame them and those who manipulated them
Its not a coincidence that the main proponents are right wing free marketer de- regulation types [ fewer rights for workers more freedom for business] is it? think the likes of Redwood. fox, farage or Gove will help redress this is stupid.
Comfort you 11 yr old - a brick wall is not coming done. Parents are there to provide perspective and experience 😉
Excellent (IMHO) article in yesterday’s FT from DeAnne Julius on the reasons why a no deal Brexit would suit the EU
Comfort you 11 yr old - a brick wall is not coming done.
You'll have to back that up. The wall might have doors in it, but to whom are those doors going to be open? Very important point. We won't have the *right* to work aboad; we'll just have to get lucky and if we do, we'll only be there on condition.
there are a lot of disaffected in this country. many of them voted the way they did to register their protest at the shitness of it all. can't blame them TBH.
why not?
nothing I ever did damaged those people.
Back it up he just went for an easy troll of criticising people as parents and a simplistic Faux truth he can defend in further trolls
Everyone knows we have gone from a right to a possibility - though we can only guess at what this means for the future.
Why feed him? Why expect anything except further trolling patronising - though he might just answer, with the politeness he demands in others but rarely delivers on himself, now to prove me wrong 😉
Sounds like treasury still thinks no deal Brexit will us is over
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/921068161692205057
(Assuming this is me report not the pre-registration one?)
Bloody remoaners!
[quote=mattjg ]
why not?
nothing I ever did damaged those people.
if you have nothing, what have you got to lose by voting for something different.
the people who care about brexit are the people in the middle who have the most to lose.
i include myself in that.
I have worked in seven countries in my life - only two are in the EU (UK and France). Little hurdles are not brick walls
I am just employing and Italian and a ****stani. Yes the latter was a bit of a balls ache with the visa and cost me a month but it’s still happening
No need to exaggerate the threats
if you have nothing, what have you got to lose by voting for something different.
they've got plenty to lose, my friend from Brazil would gladly enlighten them on "it can't get any worse than this".
and they've also denied their kids opportunities as they have ours.
I sometimes hire contract programmers online. they earn a good multiple of the minimum wage. the barrier to entry is low to get a tryout - good communications skills, the nouse to be a self starter and train yourself a bit, access to a cheapish computer. anyone that paid attention at school can do it.
I don't get any applications from the "depressed" parts of the UK. Where's all the desperation for work?
I both accept what THM says but know it’s going to be harder. And as THM has said we, don’t know how it’s going to end.
And for the record seeing as how THM’s comment was in response to mine, I didn’t feel it to be an unreasonable comment, just one that I only partially agree with.
So back to the present.
Looking like a choice between no deal or what we have now perhaps? What do you think?
For me, not definite yet, but it seems to be heading over in those directions.
A negotiated settlement looking less likely daily and Britain looking more divided than ever.
No need to exaggerate the threats
No need to oversimplify them either. Right now anyone from the UK can wander into any EU country and stay there for as long as they like, doing as they please. After we leave, they won't be able to.
Possible access by some to visas with some conditions does not negate this. Stop being so blasé about this.
Looking like a choice between no deal or what we have now perhaps? What do you think?
I've always assumed toys out of pram and no deal was the plan our side.
But I think the EU will engineer a minimal deal and a transition period. They'll do just enough that May can claim a success.
It's in the EU's interest - they know that deal or no deal, the best of the UK - brains, businesses, investments, are leaving. An ordered transition and gentle let down for the UK (the death of a 1000 cuts) is much better for the EU than a chaotic departure and crash, which damages EU countries too.
The eventual outcome is the same, but a slower smoother transition is less disruptive for the EU.
If I was EU, that's what I'd do. String the UK along.
If I was head of a bank or multi-national with assets in the UK and looking to move, that's what I'd want.
Don’t worry IGM - the water level is rising up north. Easy to ignore
they know that deal or no deal, the best of the UK - brains, businesses, investments, are leaving.
Well, they're leaving the UK for the EU or elsewhere, that much appears certain.
I have worked in seven countries in my life - only two are in the EU (UK and France). Little hurdles are not brick walls
You are not average, THM. You are in a privileged position.
I am just employing and Italian and a ****stani.
You are employing A SPECIFIC ****stani. Not ANY ****stani. That is ALL the difference, and that's my point. To make it work you need the right circumstances. It's not open to ANY Pakstani, is it?
Well, they're leaving the UK for the EU or elsewhere, that much appears certain.
Yes they will geographically diversify. One of the lessons of Brexit is not to have a large part of assets exposed to the vagaries of a single electorate or political system.
I don't get this argueing over the bill business - both sides putting up random numbers.
We have an idea of our commitments and they have an idea of our commitments (and if we/they don't then that's another level of incompetance).
Two people get into a room with those numbers and contest the others position, retire and consider and seek instruction, and then negotiate again. And keep going.
It's pretty simple.
The EU saying the number should be more like X is just as messed up as our suggesting a lower number.
It's pathetic.
What's also pathetic is all you remainers semm to care about is whether it is hitting you financially and being able to move around freely, not any political principles, like we don't really want to be part of some large, undemocratic (see Corbyns arguments...) Federal institution, and we also don't like free movement as it is as it just seems to be a way to ensure there is always a cheap workforce available (also see Corbyns arguments...).
You are not average, THM. You are in a privileged position.
You very kind but wrong. I am an average person and went through the same channels as everyone else
France was easy, for sure, except for tax issues.
My kids expect to work overseas at some point - with my encouragement - and there is no reason why they shouldn’t
You're wrong TurnerGuy I think the core values of the EU are fundamentally the right thing to do and carping on about the sanctity of the "nation state" is pathetic. It's time to grow up.
As for the bill, cannot you see the EU is in the far stronger position so they just have to sit on their hands and wait, they don't need to engage?
When you give a dog a biscuit you wait for it to come to you.
The EU saying the number should be more like X is just as messed up as our suggesting a lower number.It's pathetic.
nah our government knows very well that it has to be higher
but Brexit, as sold, makes it very hard to explain this to the public without making a lot of Brexiters look like liars
Turnerguy - as has been shown repeatedly the EU is more democratic than the UK.
You're wrong I think the core values of the EU are fundamentally the right thing to do and carping on about the sanctity of the "nation state" is pathetic. It's time to grow up.
agreed
we don't really want to be part of some large, undemocratic (see Corbyns arguments...) Federal institution
Everything's relative. I don't know if you noticed, but our government interpreted 'Taking Back Control' as an opportunity to grant themselves the power to change our laws without parliamentary oversight, using medieval 'Henry the Eighth' powers. And, of course, there will now be no other authority to which you can appeal.
So lets just consider that when we're talking about undemocratic institutions. Previously you were a citizen. You have now become a subject. If they have their way, we'll probably all end up as serfs. Appropriate given the medieval laws they've used to achieve this
You do know it started with being concerned for their kids movement - or more accurately them[ the kids] being concerned by it- so its not about themselves.
As for democratic was we have an unelected head of state, a second chamber no one voted for and a "govt" ignoring parliament[ and being scared to put the bill fwd and ignoring votes] I think the democratic argument is a hard one to make. The EU is not without its failings but our democratic failings are far far greater.
What i dont understand is why the right wing agree with the free movement of money/goods/service but not people- it really shows what you value most. When they then lecture me on how i care more about money I just have to laugh at their pathetic argument.
What's also pathetic is all you remainers semm to care about is whether it is hitting you financially and being able to move around freely, not any political principles, like we don't really want to be part of some large, undemocratic (see Corbyns arguments...) Federal institution, and we also don't like free movement as it is as it just seems to be a way to ensure there is always a cheap workforce available (also see Corbyns arguments...).
You should read some of the 1012 other pages, there are many reasons I'd prefer to remain. I'll grant you than one of them is because I don't want to be poorer, in a poorer country, because a large number of idiots were whipped into a frenzy over muslamic ray guns, but that's a long way from being my key reason for wanting the country to bale out of Brexit.
carping on about the sanctity of the "nation state" is pathetic. It's time to grow up.
This.
And Turnerguy, do some reading up on democracy, then reconcile that with the UK's political system. I'm sure you'll find that first past the post, an unelected upper house, and a ****ing hereditary monarch don't feature too highly. Perhaps if you'd paid attention at primary school you'd know that.
You do know it started with being concerned for their kids movement - or more accurately them[ the kids] being concerned by it- so its not about themselves.
Yeah, my father also hinks cuclists should be remibed from the roads 'for their own safety'
Nothing to do with the right wong press. Nope.
Turnerguy, very simple, there are international rules, what we can sell, what we can buy, where we can fly, etc etc etc.
The world has moved on from nation states to one where everything is interconnected. Only the biggest and most powerful countries can set the agenda anymore, and that is not the UK.
You can either make the rules, and the only way for the UK is to be part of something bigger, or you can accept the rules.