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lol I assume he hasn't worked out people can multi-worry.
Well, as a non home owner but having an almost complete 20% deposit, if we're honest, that bubble bursting would be quite good for me. And I doubt I'll shed too many tears for the over-invested landlords who were able to buy their sixth property having their risks subsidised by my taxes through negative gearing.
Not really, day by day we are inching towards compromise. Both sides have said as much.
Barnier is talking about a "dead end" not compromise. There is no compromise possible on NI (it's a catch 22), the British refuse point blank to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK will be maintained and the financial negociations are so far apart a compromise is not even near. If "we are inching towards compromise" then there a kms still left to cover and there's no chance of getting there before the death of all parites concerned.
https://www.la-croix.com/Brexit-Barnier-espere-avancees-deux-mois-2017-10-12-1300883708
Very true, the impact on the UK's housing market of a recession would be troubling, guess that on is in a Top Secret document somewhere too. But I'm sure the poorest will be resolute when they work out it's all being done to teach them a good lesson.
Where else could he condescend folk, patronise them and be so rude to them but here?Why are you wasting your time on here,then THM ?
Zokes - I thought you lived in Aus? But the debt bubble is going to burst at some point.
Great comments TJ from a guy who loves to shout "nonsense" at some of the more sensible and informed posters here and then bully people into submission by posting stuff that is patently untrue. The laughs are genuine but you are missing the source.
And the truth - Barnier hinting at moving towards trade negotiations. Germans stalling, others wanting to proceed.
Wherelse can the bullies suppress debat and drive forumites away? There is probably only one leaver left who is prepared to post on here. But then suppression of debate and indoctrination with false facts is a well-abused tactic of certain groups thru history. No change there....
That those Germans who 6 months ago were going to force the rest of the EU into a U.K. friendly compromise?
The future is a strange place I think.
They know who will be picking up the tab IGM. They have always been driven by self interest - with refugees being one notable and commendable exception for which Merkel was widely derided - no wonder Schauble is already talking about letting the UK back in!!
How are you? You have been quite this week
I was out in Salt Lake City doing some stuff with our American cousins. Brutal trip as always. People hear about jetting off places and imagine a wonderful glamorous lifestyle. Airports, taxis and hotels are not glamorous.
I don’t doubt your logic on the Germans, though I have no view either way myself as all the Germans I’ve met are splendid people but governments sometimes aren’t. I was just reflecting on any number of Brexies telling us that we would get an excellent free trade deal with Europe because we buy German cars.
Also, nothing much has happened worth commenting on this last week.
Few interesting things that may or may not become worth reflecting on in a week or two.
Opinion polls at 47:41 remain are not as one offs interesting (ok it’s not quite one offs but...) however if it gets to say 50:40 and stays consistent around that level, then politically the Brexies (and those like the Tories they are relying on) have a problem.
Funny old game politics.
Inside source on German money demands. Auto industry public knowledge. Budget concerns simply obvious. The last thing the Germans want is to be the main guys on the hook for unfunded pensions.
Germans are acting in their self interest. And many here applaud that. We act in our self interests and the opposite. As you say funny old game politics
Talking of funny old politics poor old JMcD had a rough ride from Marr this morning. He makes some of the nutters look like heavyweights. Sad bloody bunch all round
igm - bar the fact the talks have pretty much collapsed, the lies of the 3 amigos are now pretty much completely exposed and the fact that a cross party consensus has emerged to stop a hard brexit that has meant the tories are so scared of losing votes they have had to delay the committee stages of the bill?
In other words the tory strategy has now collapsed
FAO any Brexiteers playing the "make Britain great again" card ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/14/defence-spending-mod-cuts-brexit
There was a strategy? 🙂
And the more honest assessment - even from the guardian
Here are the main points from the press conference with David Davis, the Brexit secretary, and Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator. Not for the first time, Barnier arrived with a headline-friendly phrase conveying doom. But he also hinted at the possibility of progress by the end of this year. That would be much later than the UK government originally wanted, and it would still leave precious little time to agree a transition deal before British businesses start to hit the panic button, but it does give Davis a sliver of good news to cling to
Talking of funny old politics poor old JMcD had a rough ride from Marr this morning.
Must have been watching different programmes. Marr asked him some obvious questions. McD gave some obvious answers. No drama.
THM - that makes Davis sound like a fish being brought in by an angler. (Oops, almost a pun.) Not great, however...
...Turning to TJ’s comment, I think the talks and the mood in parliament sounds about where I’d expect around now.
There is an inflection point coming, but which way it goes... well we’ll see I guess.
IGM - about what is expected? Perhaps but it makes awful news for the tory boys on here hence their continual attempts to divert, mock. scorn etc
I heard a programme on radio 4 on my to/back the supermarket:
We are exactly where we want to be re negotiations as the only traction we have left is cash. We walk away the EU has a large funding gap to bridge...
So basically we are playing a game of chicken (and who will blink first).
Waaay, go us...
It won't be the EU thats for sure. Exactly where we want to be? Only if you are a far right zealot
MH - no surprise there. Both sides are involved with rather unnecessary posturing. But as before that’s politicians for you.
Too lightweight to create drama. His answers were vacuous at best Dr
Still looks like the Eu will keep us dangling until dec or jan before sense prevails
IGM you are generous re the assessment of the talks ^. But it makes prople happy to make things up because the truth is rather dull. The ONE thing we know is that talks have not collapsed. We even know the timetable for the next rounds.
We are not where we want nor need to be MH. The starting point is the nature of future trading relationships between the two parties and what that means for people and businesss. The rest flows from that not the other way round
I am intrigued at what point negotiating a bespoke, sorry, a unique FTA became a hard Brexshit or is that just something else made up?
If our strategy was a hard brexit we wouldnt need to negotiate in the way we are.
TJ - I made my own mind up about how this process would go months ago. And the well the talk haven’t broken down yet was about where we were always going to be. (Barnier is doing an excellent jam tomorrow routine if THM’s quote is to be believed).
As for the cross party stuff, we’ll at some point the folk we employ as MPs were going to wake up and start doing their job. If they were just here to carry out the results of a referendum then we could get shot and cut straight to the civil servants (or bureaucrats if you’re a Brexy).
The thing to note of course (assuming you mean what you say) when you are carrying out the “will of the people” is that it has a nasty habit of changing over time - and certainly over the 3 years from the referendum to leaving (possibly plus whatever transition period).
Horribly awkward.
All that said, I’m loving the Express at the moment. Comedy ranting at its best.
We are not where we want nor need to be MH.<snip>
😯
STW's resident Reluctant Brexiteer in condescending and patronising response shocker.
Us poor scots obviously not smart enough to be able to work things out for oursleves (again)...
IGM
I think we may slightly be a cross purposes.
I did say "pretty much collapsed" which is how I see it. May in frantic phone calls, Davies making a meeting with some EU members in an attempt to split the 27, the EU side saying deadlock has been reached and some other brexit wallah ( can't be bothered checking for his name) saying to the EU - "come back and talk to us when you are serious"
The tories haven't accepted that the talks have broken down publicly but its clear they are at an impasses and clutching at straws
"Chris Grayling: farmers can grow more food if there is no Brexit deal.
Homegrown produce can prevent rise in food prices if Britain leaves EU with no deal, claims transport secretary"
😯
Dear God, we are all soo screwed.
On Sunday, the former Brexit minister David Jones said Britain should be prepared to suspend negotiations at this week’s European council meeting in Brussels until the EU was prepared to negotiate further on the financial settlement and begin talks on future trade terms.“Until such time as you talk to us we will assume you are not really serious and we will of course have to prepare for life outside the EU in which we will be trading with you on World Trade Organization terms,” Jones told BBC Radio 4’s The World This Weekend.
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Us poor scots obviously not smart enough to be able to work things out for oursleves
Wow you seem to have some complex about being Scottish there. Odd when you consider how sensible your countrymen and countrywoman were in seeing through the BS and choosing to be part of such a successful union in the first of our two recent referendums. In contrast the rUk have got them in a right pickle. The Scots have shown themselves to be far more critically aware and sensible 2x now. As you would expect.
But if you are surprised about the comments on the radio you are probably missing the whole point of what has gone on over the past 2-3 weeks in particular.
Why do comments about brinkmanship/game of chicken need a “waay, go us”?
The tories haven't accepted that the talks have broken down
Why would they? The talks are on going, with a timetable, and there is even a hint of the timing when trade will finally arrive on the agenda. Why would they or anyone need lie about basic details?
Zokes - I thought you lived in Aus? But the debt bubble is going to burst at some point.
I do, but as I said to Mike, I'm fortunate not to be in a vulnerable position when it comes to debt, so about the worst that could happen is the landlady has to sell up and we get the opportunity to buy a much more reasonably priced house off her.
And if it all really goes Pete, the deposit we've nearly saved will last us more than a year without income. Think of me as a social liberal but a fiscal conservative 😀
I am intrigued at what point negotiating a bespoke, sorry, a unique FTA became a hard Brexshit or is that just something else made up?
True, bespoke and unique mean absolutely nothing as any deal will be that. Point is we are not negotiating one of those yet. 7 months in are we are still not sorting out the basics (that should be easy).
Statistics tell us that support for brexit will drop over time, the elderly who shuffle off more frequently were the biggest supporters.
As for why people accept the eu/Germany doing stuff in their best interests and criticise the UK for it, quite simple the bigger party can. It's what was expected, it's what was predicted and its the obvious outcome. The UK has very little to bargain with. Also from a more international standpoint why would the country making the conscious choice to leave dictate the terms of doing so? Why should Ireland fix the border issues? Etc etc etc
"Chris Grayling: farmers can grow more food if there is no Brexit deal.
Homegrown produce can prevent rise in food prices if Britain leaves EU with no deal, claims transport secretary"
Stock up on tinned food and guns.
Back up there we see why Chris Grayling is Transport Secretary. Farming clearly not his area of expertise. Mind you, that seems to be how how ministerial appointments work.
John Finnemore putting Chris Grayling's ideas, understanding and abilities in context from his time as SoS for Justice. Somehow Graying managed the seemingly impossible trick of making his successor, Michael Gove, seem almost palatable......
Back up there we see why Chris Grayling is Transport Secretary. Farming clearly not his area of expertise.
I think it's pretty clear that Grayling has a skill set so narrow as to be imperceptible
tjagain - Member
IGMI think we may slightly be a cross purposes.
We may be, but I suspect not. Pause for a second. What part of your description did you not foresee 9 months ago?
To be fair, I accept one might see the talks as having broken down, but my suspicion is it’s more of a Mexican standoff that will eventually pass.
What happens after that is the interesting bit - and that might depend on who blinks.
igm - true I guess
On Chris Grayling, why does his name sound like an undersized cup of tea?
What happens after that is the interesting bit - and that might depend on who blinks.
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure the EU can even be bothered to look, never mind stare so far down its nose as to find the UK peering up with a pleading look on its face.
Back up there we see why Chris Grayling is Transport Secretary. Farming clearly not his area of expertise. Mind you, that seems to be how how ministerial appointments work.
Do you think Chris "Smirking" Grayling knows more about transport than he does about farming?
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure the EU can even be bothered to look
Th second part of that phrase does not follow the first part 😉
Playing the man again? I'm shocked.
there is no way the man who constantly defends Jamby from ad homs [ whereby ad homs means posting facts] would stoop to the extent he would do the very thing he is chastising others for
THM is many things but surely he is not a hypocrite
I'm glad Chris Grayling is confident we can, if necessary, painlessly restructure our economy and labour market to get over the minor bump in the road that is our food supply.
Grayling is probably the current Tory politician who irritates me the most. At least with Boris and Gove you can see the mechanics of some kind of devious self-promotion grinding away. But whenever you see Grayling interviewed, he has the appearance of a landed fish, lying confused and gasping on the riverbank.
Utterly gormless, and yet hovering within grasping distance of the great offices of state.
There is really very little going on behind his befuddled expression.
Playing the man again? I'm shocked
Making things up again? I'm not shocked.
As anyone can see, I was commenting on a choice of phrase. Nothing to do with the poster at all.
You cannot reconcile, the idea of being honest with a statement and then say something that is patently not true.
Nice try though, you even got the water level to rise.