Forum menu
That is more than sufficient, there is no other issue that I can think of that has that "traction
Meh, every manifesto has a pledge to fix the housing crisis, save the NHS and reform education.
Maybot had dropped most of her manifesto pledges b4 she got to the election last time!
The real driving force has been the press, pushing their EU myths for decades....
Consevatives had a manifesto pledge to hold a EU referendum in 2015, the LibDems did in 2010, and Labour has one with regarded to the EU constitution in 2005. Then there is UKIP winning the most seats in the European Parliament elections. That is more than sufficient, there is no other issue that I can think of that has that "traction".
Seriously? Since when have manifestos been an accurate reflection of public opinion? How many of them proposed cutting MP wages?
The real driving force has been the press, pushing their EU myths for decades.
Yes - Murdoch and the Barclay brothers hate the EU and have waged a 20 year relentless propaganda campaign against it. that is the only driving force for leavng the EU
It gets better, so now the fact that governments promise something (leaving aside the result) doesn't matter.
This story has some fantastic twists...
Since when have manifestos been an accurate reflection of public opinion?
The fact it is included in a manifesto evidences that there is a significant body of opinion, the referendum is then used to gauge public opinion. Whilst some people get grumpy about MPs salaries, there is little evidence of a widespread campaign, personally I think they are not overpaid.
The fact it is included in a manifesto evidences that there is a significant body of opinion
It absolutely does not.
Underpaid. Hence the quality we have
It gets better, so now the fact that governments promise something (leaving aside the result) doesn't matter.
How, as a matter of interest, have you reached that conclusion?
It absolutely does not.
Send my regards to the fairies at the bottom of your garden.
Going to have to agree with Mefty there.
You don’t put lies in a manifesto unless you think they’ll appeal to someone - quite a lot of someones.
Send my regards to the fairies at the bottom of your garden.
They're all on secondment working with the rest of the fae folk on the Tories NI border 😉
comedy gold in the delusions of the righties here.
You don’t put lies in a manifesto unless you think they’ll appeal to someone - quite a lot of someones.
At the risk of sounding cynical you put things in that will appear to certain sets without alienating others. Preferably things that you can justify not delivering on and that people who oppose it don't imagine ever coming to pass so can be safely ignored unless there is political capital to be made from it.
A manifesto is what politicians want you to believe they want to do. Suggesting that a manifesto reflects majority public desires is....... hilarious.
. Suggesting that a manifesto reflects majority public desires is....... hilarious.
Well that's all good because no one has.
Well that's all good because no one has.
You kind of did.
[img] 
[/img]
Still all going swimmingly?
A powerful cross-party group of MPs is drawing up plans that would make it impossible for Theresa May to allow Britain to crash out of the EU without a deal in 2019. The move comes amid new warnings that a “cliff-edge” Brexit would be catastrophic for the economy.
Adam Marshall, the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said the business community “wants a transition agreed in principle and trade talks under way by the end of 2017. If there is not that clarity we will start to see the activation of contingency plans and likely significant impact on business investment.”
Yesterday, in a sign of growing desperation, it emerged that the Brexit secretary, David Davis, will travel to Brussels on Monday for unscheduled talks after the EU ruled that insufficient progress had been made for the two sides to begin future trade talks with Britain.
And the delusions of the levers made clear.
Around the same time,( 16 months ago) international trade secretary Liam Fox predicted that a free-trade deal with the EU, giving us continued access to EU markets after Brexit, “should be one of the easiest in human history”. His fellow Tory, the hardline Eurosceptic John Redwood, also saw no problems in realising this great reconfiguration of British interests around the world. “Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation,” he declared.
THM and his mates need feeding up from the look of this.
[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4445/37673890962_c4fc7db8b5_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4445/37673890962_c4fc7db8b5_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Zp7xfb ]DMIsKW0W4AAxmp3[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/151687774@N05/ ]james anderson[/url], on Flickr
Sorry for making this about Scotland when the wider economy is a concern, but this should be of concern to us all:
[url= http://www.thenational.scot/news/15596318.Tories_urged_to_publish_UK_s_secret_report_on_extent_of_Brexit_damage_to_Scotland/?ref=rl&lp=4 ]Tories urged to publish UK's secret report on extent of Brexit damage to Scotland[/url]
The article says:
“David Davis’s Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) yesterday said they couldn’t even confirm or deny such a paper existed, because it could impact “the national and regional economies by precipitating preemptive and reactionary assumptions from stakeholders in the respective regions”.
But Davis’ comments don’t stand scrutiny. If we assume that the position of the government is pro-Brexit, then logically, any report that shows that Brexit will have a positive effect would be publicised as it would strengthen the negotiating hand. Ergo, we can assume that the report does not show benefit for the North.
Makes sense?
Also:
“Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, has already confirmed the existence of the analysis during a committee hearing on Wednesday.” Perhaps one of the reasons he’s being got rid of- too honest.
Plenty of nourishment thanks - especially with the amusing amuse-bouches ^
Meanwhile business/private sector simply continues to get on with things. The politicians can posture as much as they like, they merely react. In contrast, business gets on with life proactively.
We are, others should do the same.
cody - all too true. Its obvious that they don't want to publish this stuff because it contradicts what they have been saying
“David Davis’s Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) yesterday said they couldn’t even confirm or deny such a paper existed, because it could impact “the national and regional economies by precipitating preemptive and reactionary assumptions from stakeholders in the respective regions”.
What a wonderful way of confirming that the report contains some unpalatable predictions about just how screwed those regional economies would be.
Still, don't tell the kids where they'll be living after the divorce, they're better off not knowing how little they're getting for Christmas. 🙂
Adam Marshall, the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said the business community “wants a transition agreed in principle and trade talks under way by the end of 2017. If there is not that clarity we will start to see the activation of contingency plans and likely significant impact on business investment.”
Meanwhile business/private sector simply continues to get on with things
Indeed. Plans to move out of the UK, and to rationalise staff numbers are forging ahead with great gusto.
Perhaps we are misreading THM's advice, we should be setting up businesses to offer Brexit planning services, you know organise lots of meetings, talk a lot and write some reports that will be out of date by the time they are printed 😉
Anyway with the DUP now putting pressure on to sack Hammond we can see that this is a tiny bunch of people pushing their agenda.
Mike - really? The DUP will not stand for a hard exit as that means a hard border for eire / NI and Hammond is the most likely to make it a soft exit. More shooting themselves in the foot.
[img] 
[/img]
As much as you can believe the Telegraph
it just gets more ridiculous. without Hammond the chances of a hard leave are higher!
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/what-connects-brexit-the-dup-dark-money-and-a-saudi-prince-1.3083586
They will do what their paymasters tell them to do....
it just gets more ridiculous
Let's face it, there's not been much intelligence exhibited in the rationale for Brexit as it is. I wouldn't have thought the DUP were a place to start looking for it.
teamhurtmoreMeanwhile business/private sector simply continues to get on with things. The politicians can posture as much as they like, they merely react. In contrast, business gets on with life proactively.
We are, others should do the same.
Is a fair point. I’ve been involved tangentially with Brexit preps for my place, albeit on a small scale, mostly working out where the costs of things we need to import and can never make in the UK are likely to go in the next few weeks/months. There’s been considerable volatility and suppliers are only happy to absorb changes so far, so we have to factor this in.
But adopting a pragmatic attitude to business and forecasting for future trading environments is only one small part of how Brexit affects us as a nation...what’s far, far more important is what- let’s call them ‘ordinary people’- need to do, or can actually do, to offset big unexpected change.
It’s simple, really- we have a system where politicians are elected to act in the best interests of the electorate in matters where an individual can’t directly effect an outcome. We influence them by informing them of our concerns and ask them to act on our behalf. We expect them to take a balanced view of the matter, and intercede for us.
Brexit should be one of those matters. But Brexit being what it is, it seems to me that there’s little that ordinary people can do to now to have their concerns addressed. If the contents of these reports are true, those who can’t handle the change will suffer. How can breadliners cope with a surge in retail pricing, for example?
As usual, those who can prepare and offset can and will do so, and those who can’t need help and interventions from their representatives. And they’re not getting that. They’re getting publicly-funded reports suppressed because they don’t fit the vision. It’s difficult to proactively plan for change when you need an elected representative to do that for you, and they in turn are attending to a different agenda.
How many of these so-called ordinary people decided that their interest were best served by not being members of the EU? Our representatives have a duty to respect their wishes and execture the mandate that they were given, In this case the ordinary people have asked them to withdraw our membership.
The government is currently seeking to negotiate a deal on their behalf. They are not despite all the froth seeking a hard brexit although quite rationally they accept that this is one of a series of potential outcomes that needs to be prepared for. Plus it has to be genuinely "threatened" in order to stop the EU play is their silly games.
So the ordinary folk are getting what they wanted. It was their choice. They can't complain.
The government is currently seeking to negotiate a deal on their behalf.
And if they fail to negotiate a deal what should be done? If the deal they negotiate will harm the UK what should they do? Shrug and go will of the people and all that or be a bit grown up and say if we continue along this path these will be the consequences.
How many of these so-called ordinary people decided that their interest were best served by not being members of the EU?
Just over 17 million. UK population just over 66 million. So just over a quarter.
Plus it has to be genuinely "threatened" in order to stop the EU play is their silly games.
I'm not quite sure the EU have finished laughing at our attempts to negotiate. Let alone stopped laughing long enough to contrive to play silly games. How's the red white and blue Brexit coming along? That sounded sooooooo sensible.
So the ordinary folk are getting what they wanted. It was their choice. They can't complain.
Ah, Tory compassion at its finest. And you wonder why anyone with an ounce of moral fibre loathes your sort.
We know thwe consequences broadly. Yes, they have a mandate to deliver. They need to do it to the best of their ability. It's not easy for sure but farting about and moaning endlessly does get anyone anywhere.
Why are you wasting your time on here,then THM ?
Charming Zokes but your attempt to design the issue along party political lines instead of accepting reality is the reason why [s]anyone capable of thinking got one moment, "loathes your sort" [/s] your opinions can be dismissed so readily.
Feel free to ignore what these people want and impose you minority views on them. You know best after all and bugger them and their wishes and interest. But shouldn't you be more worried about the bursting of the Aussie debt bubble?
(How many of use voted to remain BTW?)
It's Sunday and finished ride so needed some fun to read. Will so some more work later 😉
[img] 
[/img]
We know thwe consequences broadly. Yes, they have a mandate to deliver. They need to do it to the best of their ability.
Well good job the sent the A team, trying ones best is not good enough if it fails.
It's not easy for sure but farting about and moaning endlessly does get anyone anywhere.
The loudest moans are coming from the Pro Brexit Press about how terribly unfair it is the UK isn't getting what it wants. Day by day the dreams and claims before the referendum are evaporating.
Given the best anyone seems to manage is to say Bespoke Deal (c) and Best Interests (c) blah blah blah no you can't see the report it doesn't exist it's not looking like a good deal is anywhere near
Feel free to ignore what these people want and impose you minority views on them
I'll happily ignore the views of just over 25% of the population if it benefits the other 75%. Maths not your strongpoint, tmh?
Not really, day by day we are inching towards compromise. Both sides have said as much. The issue is the glacial pace.
thejesmonddingo - MemberWhy are you wasting your time on here,then THM ?
I don't think he understands that nowadays he is either blocked or have folk laughing at him. His attempts to patronise and sneer enough to antagonise folk is no longer working. Why he is allowed to stay on here I don't know
But shouldn't you be more worried about the bursting of the Aussie debt bubble?
Why?
lol I assume he hasn't worked out people can multi-worry.
Given the negotiations have inched onwards to still not have the 3 starting conditions met at this stage makes any hope of a decent outcome slim to say the least, it's not like there is a fixed deadline or anything to worry about.