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I made the mistake of reading some comments on FB earlier today. The level of ignorance and bigotry is both astounding and depressing.
The Graun has very accurately nailed a lot of the alt right shit that is going on on social media.
I had a joust with a couple of knuckledraggers, one was giving all the crap about being anti all established politics and imploring me to step back from my lefty media brainwashing.
A quick skim through both their timelines revealed loads of anti-Muslim sentiment and sharing of Hatey Plopkins verbal evacuations.
I shared back the Graun article on the alt-right likes of Yaxley-Lennon and strangely things went a bit quiet. I was on the verge of getting a carpet chewing Downfall style rant from one of them, but I think his mates told him not to blow the gaff.
These shitstains are out there.
They were berating a remoaner (sic) for daring to suggest that revoking A50 was the best thing for the county. Their argument centered arounf the "FACT" that we'd have to re-apply and lose our Veto, join Schengen, Accept the Euro, let Turkey join and for a European army. About the only thing they didn't mention was the RAF pilot's post that was discredited yonks ago.
doomanic
Member
I made the mistake of reading some comments on FB earlier today. The level of ignorance and bigotry is both astounding and depressing.
agree completely, proper WTF? stuff out there, amazing how after nearly 3 years some people have managed not to learn anything about the process
As for May running down the clock.... its been her strategey for months now, she simply has no other plan
My taxi driver to the airport last week brought up Brexit. He said he'd vote remain but now would vote leave "due to the way the EU had treated us".
During the conversation I raised the lie of the £350 million a week to the NHS. His response was "ok so the number was wrong but was it a lei?". Err yes...
Remain was all project fear but if we stayed in the EU we would have to join Euro and EU Army in 2 years.
We are doomed. They believe everything they read on Facebook but never once fact-check anything.
“due to the way the EU had treated us”.
The great myth, what it should be telling us is how very hard it will be to negotiate anything going forward and the negotiating power of the EU. You are with us or against us.
Next up a deal with the US
Some Labour MPs have moved on to the only answer left now…
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1099667093778296833?s=21
https://twitter.com/alexlmayer/status/1099692195328729089?s=21
…all the other options have been left on the table long enough to now be useless.
17 days to drive the country off a Cliff or slam the brakes on and save us all from disaster
I genuinely don't know what they're going to do.
But regardless of your brexit view, if you think the tories have handled this well, and you would still vote for them, you are so monumentally thick that you will get all you deserve in the forthcoming maelstrom
“due to the way the EU had treated us”
And that is an insulting and dangerous narrative that May has allowed to fester. Frankly the fact that the deal offered included passporting of financial services actually shows that the EU has been rather generous in their offer, Frankly if I was in the EU's position I would never have allowed that.
Unfortunately the leadership of both parties have allowed these continued insults to be constantly thrown at our closest allies, and have turned friends into enemies. Those that have been toted as friends by the erg nutters are going to rape the **** out of our country,
What happens if Mays majority resigns?
We need* a government to be in place on 29th March, no matter what happens… May can't be safely toppled now, even if she doesn't have a "majority" (you can argue that is already the case). Parliament can keep giving her instructions, she can keep ignoring it. Unless they vote to chuck her out, which they can't, because then we'd have no government at a time when we absolutely have to have one. That's our democracy. Flawed you say?
*If we need to stop/delay Brexit, that requires an executive to change the law and notify the EU. If we carry on and Leave without a deal, we need an executive to sign off on multiple measures and side deals with the EU to keep the UK functioning. If we are to Leave with a deal, we need an executive to implement changes to the law that our new temporary status as a non-member under the umbrella of the EU requires.
And that is an insulting and dangerous narrative that May has allowed to fester.
This is a mess the brexiteers created, all the EU have said is that we can't keep the benefits of membership after we leave (well some like passporting etc they have).
The brexiteers campaign was all about pretending there were no benefits to membership. Still now they cling on to that & would rather see a no deal Brexit than admit that they lied.
It's a story millions have bought into in the polarised debate.
It's why if we do crash out with a deal it will all be the 'EU's fault' when things go bad.
Wot I want to no is why are the WTO punishing us wiv these tarifs.
Oh gawd still at it!!
Wot I want to no is why are the WTO punishing us wiv these tarifs.
Unelected boorocrats, who voted for the head of the WTO? Out now! We were ruling the world before the WTO existed, so we don't need to follow their rules. Spitfires, passports...
agree completely, proper WTF? stuff out there, amazing how after nearly 3 years some people have managed not to learn anything about the process
The vast majority have no interest in thinking beyond the memes they see on Facebook on a daily basis. And they have no reason to - they're not politicians. You can argue that it is actually in their interest, but that's just the way it is.
Which is why the referendum should never have taken place. It should only have been carried out if the government had a plan, and the confidence that it could be executed in a way that would be beneficial.
What we actually had, was a vote surrounded by misinformation, posing a very complex question to a public who did not, and still do not, understand it. Taking all the responsibility away from those that do.
Even now, the public is blamed for it. It's all their doing. They voted for it, etc. Fact of the matter is, our government should never had such an option on the table that would lead to the political instability we have right now. Brexit isn't even the issue any more, it's very much about the handling of it.
But regardless of your brexit view, if you think the tories have handled this well, and you would still vote for them, you are so monumentally thick that you will get all you deserve in the forthcoming maelstrom
Many people will still vote Tory just to keep Corbyn out. I don't remember any other time in my life when people felt they had no party to vote for. And that they would vote for (arguably) the most disastrous party in living memory, purely because they fear the opposition may be worse.
Strange times.
Oh gawd still at it!!
I see the trolls pop back in regularly, still no positive news from Phil though
I see the trolls pop back in regularly, still no positive news from Phil though
Didn't get enough of a bite this time around, though.
Expect the phrase 'pant wetting' to make an appearance soon.
Tiresome stuff.
Now, where is the killfile, again?
Brexit isn’t even the issue any more, it’s very much about the handling of it.
There is something in that too - even a logically minded Leaver* ought to be appalled by the sight of massively important policy decisions being settled by a game of parliamentary chicken.
*Yes, I know........
We need* a government to be in place on 29th March, no matter what happens… May can’t be safely toppled now, even if she doesn’t have a “majority”
May can be given the heave-ho at any point. The remaining Cabinet members would simply appoint an acting PM. The government carries on until it loses a Motion of No Confidence (twice).
TBH, what would work better is the Queen stepping in, and telling that Parliamentary shower of arseholes that she'd take it from here, thanks.
Brexit: Theresa May under pressure to consider Brexit delay
It looks like the EU bureaucrats have just woken up to the reality.
Slay the EU beast (EU bureaucratic system) while it is on the run.
They actually said that a delay would be “the rational thing to do”, thus ensuring that that’s the very last thing that this bunch of headbangers will countenance doing
From Sky:
Speaking at a news conference at the end of the EU summit with Arab leaders, European Council president Donald Tusk is asked about the possibility of extending Article 50 and delaying Brexit.
He says: "Prime Minister May and I discussed yesterday a lot of issues including the legal and procedural context of a potential extension.
"It's, for me, absolutely clear that there's no majority in the House of Commons to approve a deal.
"We will face an alternative - a chaotic Brexit or an extension.
"The less time there is until 29 March the greater the likelihood of an extension.
"This is an objective fact, not our intention, not our plan but an objective fact.
"I believe in the situation we are in an extension would be a rational solution, but Prime Minister May believes she is still able to avoid this scenario.
"I can assure you, and I did it also yesterday in my meeting with Prime Minister May, that no matter which scenrio will be, the EU27 will show maximum understanding and goodwill."
It looks like the EU bureaucrats have just woken up to the reality.
Slay the EU beast (EU bureaucratic system) while it is on the run.
Verbal numberwang.
Trouble is tho May isn’t rationale and sees Brexit as her legacy and screw the rest of us.
It does seem that even if May asks for an extension, it will be 6-8 weeks, so nothing really changes and she will keep carping on about listening and co-operating while doing neither, and just bringing the same deal back again. The EU have a more realistic view of extending by a couple of years.
On the plus side May is saving TV news channels some money as they can just replay soundbites from months ago. So there's a positive money saving side to brexit, knew I'd find one eventually.
The EU have a more realistic view of extending by a couple of years.
Im not sure that the EU would want that, we'd probably end up with Tommy robinson as an MEP, theres enough kipper freeloaders in Brussles already, I can see us getting an extension up to the euro elections.
to mittigate the worst effects of no deal (from their point of view) would anyone in the EU trust May to get any deal through parliament now?
An extension would have to be tied to the realisation that the UK needs to change or flex on some things. If not it's pointless.
Oh gawd still at it!!
I know. Its nuts isnt it? When will the maybot realise she isnt getting anywhere?
we’d probably end up with Tommy robinson as an MEP, theres enough kipper freeloaders in Brussles already
They rarely bother turning up though and when they do just throw some insults as opposed to properly causing political chaos. So the tosser would just be a minor irritant.
Farage has one of the worst attendance records doesn’t he? When he does show up, he often just rants something unrelated to the debate, in order to have it shown by his Russian buddies on RT.
If ever you needed proof that he's in it for the money...
On the plus side May is saving TV news channels some money as they can just replay soundbites from months ago. So there’s a positive money saving side to brexit, knew I’d find one eventually.
Ha ha that's probably 800million quids worth ...she says the same shit over and over
I often find that the killfile improves my forum experience considerably.
In other news, the interim head of the Institute of Directors has apparently "lost all faith in the political process" regarding Brexit.
All this because a minority of Conservatives want to use Brexit as the instrument to abolish "red tape" - the things we have in place to ensure that employees are treated fairly, that pollution is minimised and that businesses who pollute are taxed accordingly.
Extension it is then. Only question is for how long.
Just what we need - more uncertainty.
They really are not fit to govern
Oh, looks like there could be another brexit bonus...
Government planning a "hardship fund" for no-deal Brexit
Is Corbyn finally going to cave into pressure? Or just mumble something trite
Is it busses?
In before binners....
As one reply to the tweet siad its the hope that kills you.
not understand
could be the second coming of Christ and it still wouldn't matter what announcement Corbyn makes he simply makes up the numbers
Oh, looks like there could be another brexit bonus…
Government planning a “hardship fund” for no-deal Brexit
Will it supplement my dole money or is it for those of us that can't get dole money.
Asylum...seeking is my next attempt reckon i could get that using political persecution by my government as my claim?
Has he bought a new hat?
One of his courgettes has won a prize?
Has Corbyn had a rebellious flashback and defected to the independent group?
Some government cabinet-member Brexiteer cockwomble (don’t ask me which one, they all sound the bloody same) was being interviewed by Emma Barnett this morning on Five Live
She asked him repeatedly about the hardship fund for people ‘immediately impoverished by the fallout from a no deal Brexit.
He did what they all do when confronted by reality - totally refused to answer and just blathered on about the sunny uplands once Mays Deal had been voted through
All vey reassuring
It's too late for a referendum, isn't it? Need to see the detail/plan asap… ie is the call for a referendum wedded to a call for a later Leave date? Fingers crossed. Yes, the hope hurts!
Many Labour MPs have moved on to calling for A50 notification to be recinded now… to properly stop the clock. I tend to agree. Another referendum is already, apparantly, "undemocratic"… but realistically something is required to include voters, and fend off ridiculous claims of MPs being traitors, for doing what needs doing. It's worth noting that LibDem conference also called for A50 to be rescinded, but the leadership/MPs have ignore that… so not just Labour members dragging their reluctant leadership along…
I think it was Will Hutton in the Grauniad who predicted ages ago that magic grandad would call for a second referendum once the point was safely passed where there was any time to actually have one.
To continue his theme of making it look like he’s doing something, when he’s just helping smooth the path for Brexit
He’s nothing if not predictable, as summed up today by Ben Jennings
Once again I must ask....
Can Corbyn deliver what he says?
I think his stance is a good place to work from. Just include freedom of movement and I'll be happy.
Just include freedom of movement and I’ll be happy.
Agreed. There are ways of creating a new relationship with the EU, outside it, that works for people and business, but they all require FoM to continue, even if slightly revised in implementation. It does mean "our" politicans having less say in how Europe works… but, unlike back in 2016, I'm no longer sure that's a bad thing.
Is this just positioning or can it actually make a difference?
Going on Magic Grandpa’s disgraceful conduct so far, am I very cynically inclined about this.
positioning
Timing… I feel it's too late to get a public vote, unless paired to a change in our exit date to something like 2021… …if the result is that we are still Leaving, we need time to prepare… why have an "implementation" period, when we could get ready to Leave while still full members. And no, we're not ready to Leave next month? So, let's see the details… how and when would we hold a public vote? Not 28th March, with possibly leaving the EU the next day, obviously.
…would call for a second referendum once the point was safely passed where there was any time to actually have one.
Damn, agreeing with Binners again. But hoping he is wrong, of course. He's not wrong though, is he…
The hope hurts!
2nd referendum? That ship sailed weeks ago
And Jezza is just as insistent on his red line of ending freedom of movement as May is, so all the rest is academic
More useless posturing to the terminally gullible
Kier Starmer must have the patience of a Saint not to have decked the beardy old sod by now
Kier Starmer must have the patience of a Saint not to have decked the beardy old sod by now
Or not actually hold the views he is credited with,
It is just depressing. Both May and Corbyn are totally transparent and too morally weak to make a stand yet they both play out their pathetic strategies. Pathetic strategies that anyone but the terminally hard of thinking can see through, as they expect the general public to be stupid enough to fall for them.
And we never disappoint as we live up (down) to their expectations. This is the common theme of the this whole sorry fiasco.
Do you think that when he gets home at night Kier pops on his little Lenin hat, a false beard and burns an EU flag...?
…would call for a second referendum once the point was safely passed where there was any time to actually have one.
It could however be part of a deal with the EU for a short extension with a vote of the Deal or remain being put to the people and implemented as soon as the votes are counted. The problem then is getting enough people to put may's deal on the ballot - no deal would have no chance of getting past the people.
What a surprise. The Labour Party delivers on it’s long stated policy, as they were always going to do, and still you lot are whining.
A very good, if suitably depressing, article by David Mitchell about the shameful state of both our main, equally self-serving political parties
Why binary politics leaves Britain all at sea
The Labour Party delivers
It hasn't delivered anything.
Rumour has it that Labour don't want "Remain" as an option on the ballot.
Yes ,just let me enjoy this brief moment of hope.
It will probably be dashed tomorrow but tonight just let me have a beer and a blissful sleep.
Too little, too late.
Far, far too little, much, much too late, and still totally grudging, noncommittal and totally half-arsed
Unlike the enthusiasm for calling for article 50 to be triggered, then rejecting remaining in the customs union and the single market. No messing around or lack of commitment there, eh?
He’s a fraud. But he looks like he’s found a receptive market of people who actively want to be conned
Tbh the EU has been saying for months that if we ask for an extension, which it looks increasingly like we will, it will have to come with a meaning chance of change of position (in other words, not another 6 months of deadlock) which given the recent polls, MP and councillor resignations, national credit rating warnings and a million other things, they’ll throw the dice for a second referendum.
My 2p is either we’ll get May’s deal or 2nd ref which will likely be a Mays deal v remain.
The Labour Party delivers
Delivery??
Not sure how the linky works for facebook but here is some of what your money is being spent on...
What a surprise. The Labour Party delivers on it’s long stated policy, as they were always going to do, and still you lot are whining.
That’s staggeringly one-eyed even by your standards, dazh.
How many pages are you going to spend tying yourself up in increasingly absurd knots this time?
Mays deal v remain.
Even a bad deal is better than no deal… so I'd be happy with that choice being given to "the people" at this point. It needs more than a short delay though… as we're not even prepared to Leave with the current Withdrawl Agreement yet, legally or as regards deals with nonEU countries that don't include us as a named country.
Just read the detail on the Guardian and all Beardy has done is restate that they will support calls for a second referendum if Mays Deal is voted down next month
Way to go Jezza! No rush.
It’s too late for a referendum, isn’t it?
Well the EU said they would extend for a good reason e.g. 2nd ref. And Corbs has been over to talk to the EU a few times so you'd assume that's what he was talking about.
Still a little bit of hurty hope left… fool that I am. Let's wait and see what the more trust worthy Labour MPs say after the meeting, before throwing hands up the air.
Well the EU said they would extend for a good reason
It's not the EU we're worried about! It's our representives. Getting a long enough delay approved by them, in a way that forces the government to act… that is the issue.
What a surprise. The Labour Party delivers on it’s long stated policy, as they were always going to do, and still you lot are whining.
to be fair to the whiners, this is what Corbyn has actually delivered so far, as regards a 2nd ref:
That’s why, in line with our conference policy, we are committed to also putting forward or supporting an amendment in favour of a public vote to prevent a damaging Tory Brexit being forced on the country.
So as far as the conference motion is concerned, it sounds like we have moved on from 'trying to get a general election' and now arrived at 'supporting all other options on the table'.
It's certainly a step in the right direction, especially as they're actually moving to block no deal, but given that on 2nd ref it is basically restating previous policy statements, I think it would be premature to get too excited...
Rumour has it that Labour don’t want “Remain” as an option on the ballot.
Must be true then
Thornberry unbelievably clear on Channel 4 news. Wow. She didn't even say "let me perfectly clear", because she actually was perfectly clear! Very clear on a Remain option, and campaigning for it. All could be stopped by May accepting "a" permanent customs union… but even that compromise is very unlikely, isn't it?
Not being funny but the world has seen behind the curtain in the land of Oz ...and started leaving will another referendum do any good or just slow the bleeding to death we started here.....end dramatic music
So, will he 3-line whip it or will it be another #labstain fiasco? Around 70 Labour MPs said to be against a 2nd referendum. Its almost like he's now promising one knowing it'll never happen. Or is that too machavellian?
Must be true then
Ah, you know better then? Do tell.
Or is that too machavellian?
That probably is his thinking (he managed to torpedo votes on extending the A50 period, after all). Other MPs genuinely want an EEA+CU deal and/or a referendum… and enough have probably scared the leadership that they'll leave the party that the front bench may well swing properly behind "something" less unicorny, to keep most of the parliamentary party together.
Assuming we get there - is there a majority in Parliament to sanction a 2nd ref? Lab + SNP + LD + others still a minority and some Labour MPs will vote against any whip - some Tories would vote against their whip - but would it be enough?
It would require MPs currently on the government payroll to vote for it. Looks very unlikely… but we don't really know what all those MPs are thinking, as they have to voice support for May. They could spin it as saving May's deal, by getting it through parliament tied to a referendum on it… some look like they might do that already… could more?
I wonder how many labour MPs just threatened to resign?
I’ll still only believe the Labour leadership has even the slightest commitment to following through on this when they actually do it!
Corbyn’s demeanour at the PLP meeting when reading out the statement, was described by one labour MP as “like a hostage reading out a ransom demand”
Let’s see if anything actually happens. I’ve absolutely zero confidence in this shower to change direction now
I am looking forward to watching some Brexiteers absolutely lose their shit now though 😂
It would surely depend on the options, of which I think there are 4.
May's Deal
No Deal
Red Unicorn Deal
Remain
Many MPs will vote it down if their preferred option isn't on it, some will vote it down if No Deal is on it and some will vote it down if Remain is on it.
Good friend of mine lost his job today, fairly big architects in Glasgow gone to the wall. Commercial developers sitting on contracts to 'wait and see'....
Sad, sad days.