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Ah, looks like he has since had to repeat many many times on twitter that it’s nothing to do with the Pi! Amateur level journalists must try harder.
Yeah. There's an update on the page explaining that now, that wasn't there when I originally read the article.
“There is going to come a time when my ability to support this government is going to run out,” he finishes.
Next PM?
“Threatening to leave is the behaviour of a three-year-old who says they will hold their breath if they do not get the toy they want,” he adds.
“There is going to come a time when my ability to support this government is going to run out,” he finishes.
I assume there was a point there? You seem to have missed one.....
Seemed to be a little bit of a contradiction. He's threatening to leave if he doesn't get what he wants.
Not really, he has supported the government for a long time while they throw tantrums and reject any method to get out of the situation they are in.
He is perfectly resonable saying that you can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results you are mad.
He’s threatening to leave if he doesn’t get what he wants.
No, he's stating that he'll have to. That's not using it as leverage, that's just showing his desperation at the situation.
** realises he's made the mistake of commenting on the Brexit thread and backs away **
No problem sharing your views, do you think he should keep doing what is delivering nothing?
A reminder that large multinationals will easily work around all this rubbish, and many already have their exit plans well underway… small British companies on the other hand are just waiting and hoping…
https://twitter.com/brucereuters/status/1096102431367274496?s=21
"An SNP amendment, which was also backed by the Liberal Democrats, calling for Britain's departure from the EU on 29 March to be delayed by three months, was defeated by 93 votes to 315, after most Labour MPs abstained." WT actual F?
I assume that Labour still feel the date can force something. Delay would be last option.
Defeat of government ammendment does sound like a lack of confidence from the erg at least, well until asked. I do get the feeling the tory remainers will break away and rebel first though.
WT actual F?
That's the thing… lots of "stop no deal Brexit" MPs vote against any measure that could help prevent it. And Labour whipped its MPs to abstain.
There is also talk of labour MP's resigning the party whip, I wonder if there is going to be a new pro Europe party forming from members of the current big 2, at least until we get out of this mess.
On 28th March Will Labour still be calling for that general election?
Still relevant but from last November
Another massive vote against the government.
What, I wonder, will it take to make May admit it's already gone nipples skyward? 😯
Parliament will vote against anything and everything … but for nothing. But then, that's the mandate of the Referendum…
"What do we want?"
"Not this!"
"When do we want it?"
"Have those traitors not got on and done it for us yet?!?"
What do we reckon ?
Maybots programming has secretly been by Johnson. & The whole of Brexit has been an elaborate ruse to get him elected PM?
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1096107756782792704?s=19
No problem sharing your views, do you think he should keep doing what is delivering nothing?
I'm not sure what I've written that makes you think that that's my opinion. Any opposition to this ridiculous situation is all good by me, but him stating that people who threaten to flounce are stupid, and then implying he'll flounce himself is a bit silly.
You and Molgrips don't seem to think that it is - I'm "backing away slowly" as that makes it a conversation that can only deteriorate into a Monty Python 5 minute argument.
EDIT: Awaits "No it isn't" response...
This, of course, is all academic as we're not going to be leaving on 29th March.
JP
You and Molgrips don’t seem to think that it is
Just voicing an opinion mate.
You and Molgrips don’t seem to think that it is
TBH I'm amazed that there haven't already been wholesale flounces on both sides. The only thing I think stopping this is that MPs realise that the two main parties splitting will simply invite more chaos and deflect attention from the nutters who rightly should own this mess.
Both May and Corbyn are walking tightropes. They can't get to the other side if their respective parties split. It will be interesting to hear in future when we look back just what they have been discussing behind closed doors in their meetings. Something tells me they will be cooperating with each other a lot more than seems the case as their interests are aligned.
** realises he’s made the mistake of commenting on the Brexit thread and backs away **
Too late now you’ve opened the box 🙂
Mrs S. says he's leaving it pretty late.
What do we reckon ?
A bit of an anti-climax. 😀
Nichola Sturgeon was bang on today saying “Labour is acting as the midwife for the Tory’s Brexit”
Anne Soubry was also right to call the labour front bench out as cowards for sitting back and letting the Tory’s get on with it. AND SHE’S A TORY FFS!!
I expect the Tory’s to be *s! It’s in their DNA. Its what they do. I do expect more of the Labour Party though. Much more!
Christ, have I been disappointed. And not in a ‘I’m not angry, I’m just disappointed’ way. I’m really *ing angry with the stupid, lying, spineless beardy *!
Seems Corbyn and his mob are more than happy to run the clock down with Theresa, indulge the ERG and crash out, totally *ing the very people they’re meant to represent.
I can’t help wondering where we’d be if the Tory party had actually been faced with an actual opposition instead of this bunch of Brexiteer cowards?! They haven’t even got the bollocks to come out and say what they are.
Seems Corbyn and his mob are more than happy to run the clock down with Theresa, indulge the ERG and crash out, totally ****ing the very people they’re meant to represent.
Sigh. See my post above. Corbyn's primary aim is to hold his party together. Yes, he's anti-EU, no one is denying that. Is he pro-brexit? He's declared he's pro-brexit because he's a democrat and respects the referendum result. Is he a pro-ERG hard brexiteer seeking no deal? He's as much one of those as he is a racist or soviet spy.
He's pursuing a soft(er) brexit because that holds the best chance of keeping his party together, preserving his electoral chances, and yes because it probably chimes with his only personal views. I know that doesn't fit with your hope that brexit should be cancelled. It doesn't with mine either, but he has undeniable reasons for taking this stance. This pro-ERG stuff is simply bonkers conspiracy theory stuff.
It's just bollocks. Wake up and see what's staring you in the face. People are so desperate to believe in the man.
the stupid, lying, spineless beardy ****!
Not sure spineless is the right word. I mean you disagree on the EU, fine, but spineless just because he's not standing up for what *you* want...?
He’s declared he’s pro-brexit because he’s a democrat and respects the referendum result.
If he's a democrat why isn't he following his own party's conference decisions?
Wake up FFS Daz!
Corbyn is pursuing a unicorn Brexit - in total opposition to the membership who’s interests he claims (now ridiculously) to represent) - because anyone with anything between their ears knows there’s only one end to that... a No Deal Brexit
It’s what he wants! It’s what he’s always wanted! He’s too much of a fraud to come out and say that though.
History will judge him as the lefts equivalent to Boris Johnson. A spineless opportunist who was just in it for himself
I mean you disagree on the EU, fine, but spineless just because he’s not standing up for what *you* want…?
So which is it?
Is he holding true to his long standing anti-Eu position, against the majority of his MPs and members? The man who put principle ahead of the wishes of his party?
Or the relectant Brexit enabler, trapped by the will of others into perusing a policy he doesn't want?
Wake up FFS Daz!
Corbyn is pursuing a unicorn Brexit – in total opposition to the membership who’s interests he claims (now ridiculously) to represent)
along with a couple of hundred Labour MP's who seem to be happy to follow on because they are not sure what to do next....
It’s what he wants! It’s what he’s always wanted!
I'm not denying that. It's clear he's anti-EU, that much is obvious. Is he a no-deal pro-ERG nutter? Sorry I just don't believe that. What you describe as a unicorn brexit others might describe as the only brexit that holds any hope of bringing people back together and protecting working people. Yes it's difficult, but the alternatives are no deal or no brexit. I'd love it to be the latter, but that's also unicorn thinking isn't it? A customs union and regulatory alignment seems to me the best of a bad bunch, and the only feasible option that the EU have indicated they will accept, and that's exactly what Corbyn/Labour are pressing for.
Still pressing for an end to FoM though.
That's the key to any "soft"
Brexit… the rest is just hot air.
He’s declared he’s pro-brexit because he’s a democrat and respects the referendum result
Why doesn't he respect the election result and become a Tory? Would he if they won a majority at the next election?
Anne Soubry was also right to call the labour front bench out as cowards for sitting back and letting the Tory’s get on with it. AND SHE’S A TORY FFS!!
Your point caller? Beyond her deflecting from the failure of her party to stand up to their own extremists? Well done for falling for it though.
A spineless opportunist who was just in it for himself
You can disagree with him all you want but that's just silly.
Lets once again examine labour's options:
1. They campaign for a new referendum - They don't have the support of MPs in leave voting constituencies even if enough tories would vote for it, and enough shadow cabinet members have declared they will resign if this happens. Result: A split in the party.
2. They do a deal with May. - The remainer wing of the party have already declared they won't support this and some have said they will resign the whip. Result: Party split
3. They propose to cancel brexit. - See above about labour MPs in leave constituencies, and add the tagline 'enemy of democracy/people' on the next tory election billboard poster. Result: Losing the next election and probably splitting the party
4. Campaign the for the softest brexit possible by proposing customs union membership to ensure continuity of trade and industry, and regulatory alignment to protect jobs and workers rights. Result: They'll take a hit from both sides, but probably hold the party together. They might take a hit at the next election from both remainer and leave voters but at least they'll still be in the game.
Anyone got any other brigth ideas as to what they should do? I mean, this is an internet forum, I'm sure the assembled experience of MPs with decades of experience, trades unionists and their respectful advisors haven't thought about it as much as we have and are just basing policy on a hunch, but is it at all possible they are doing the only thing open to them that averts certain doom?
What would a split party end up doing? If it got a sizeable chunk of seats, say 100, then no party would have a majority ever. The Tories would never be able to get Tory policies through, and Labour would never be able to get Labour policies through. And there is more to politics than Brexit, long term. So a split party would prevent Labour from being able to work towards social justice. So you can't blame them for not wanting to give up half their support base.
Just to be clear - I'm not supporting Corbyn necessarily - just trying to explain how boxed in everyone is.
What would a split party end up doing? If it got a sizeable chunk of seats, say 100, then no party would have a majority ever.
Well it's how we ended up with the Lib Dems, if only one splits then the other wins. If they both split then welcome to coalition government
The tory /lib dem coalition is starting to look like halcyon days compared to this bonfire.
History will judge him as the lefts equivalent to Boris Johnson. A spineless opportunist who was just in it for himself
That's a little unfair. Boris has to answer for the utter incompetence of the Garden Bridge and £53million waste of taxpayer money.
I too am in the ****ing incensed and nigh unto violence camp as the self-indulgent at Westminster squabble amongst themselves. It's an utter disgrace. Our current European partners are waiting for someone, anyone with a clue to step forward and propose something sensible.
Corbyn sat on the fence for too long, similar to May he has treid to find a middle way that pleases no one.
His problem now is that his reneging on his promise to listen to members & push for a 2nd ref has blown his credibility with the liberal middle classes & the young remain voters he attracted last time..
No matter how bad the Tories screw up Brexit, labour are simply viewed by many as a party of old men that dislike the EU now.
Brexit has become the defining issue of our politics but both main parties are still to scared to pick a side
good summary of the fantasy of Brexit http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/14/may-s-latest-brexit-defeat-the-edifice-of-nonsense-comes-tum
What would a split party end up doing?
As you say, the primary result would be the end of the party's chances of ever being able to govern with a majority. In labour's case that's probably not a massive problem as the minority parties like the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru and the Greens (all 1 of them) would support them. However it would still split the vote and massively increase the chances of a tory majority. So kiss goodbye to labour ever being in power again.
It's even worse if the tories split as well, they'll be held to ransom by the likes of the ERG, DUP and whatever Farage-ists gain seats.
The fact is that without an electorial system designed to cope with multiple parties and coalition politics, we'll end up like Italy with a completely dysfunctional democracy, open to expropriation and corruption on a scale not seen before.
So given that we’re at absolute gridlock, what would happen if the opposition* party decided to actually do some opposing?
What happened if the opposition party actually stood up and actually vocalised the madness of this situation and made a case for a peoples vote, as their members had instructed them to do?
We’ll never know.
Check out the hardcore Cobynite sites like ‘red labour’ on Twitter and friendface. They’re rabidly opposed to a People’s vote, just like Corbyn is, because they want their Brexit.
They all still think it’s 1973 and they don’t want to be part of the common market.
I just hope that all the young optimists in Momentum who supported this idiot now realise the extent to which they’ve been played and conned.
There is no vision for a fairer future. There’s just a bunch of bitter old 1970’s Marxists who care as much for their future as Rees Mogg and his chums
This whole sorry farce is about keeping the Tories together. The short lived and unexpected 2015 result aside, the Conservatives haven't won a commanding election majority since 1987. The lunatics want to go full on TurboFatcha but know they'll never win an election alone. The moderates hate the lunatics almost as much as they do the Labour Party, but without the lunatics onboard they'll never have a parliamentary majority.
At the risk of gloating, it's a reflection of our fractured society and the Tories have reaped what they've sown. The referendum should've been a clarion call to fix society, but instead it's been hijacked. We have a Prime Minister who is a habitual can-kicker - during her tenure heading the Home Office, the investigation into Westminster pederasts ended up with four unsuitable judges being appointed and then sacked in order to make the problem go away.
Either it's a destructive Brexit or the Conservatives split. If that happens, the rump Tories won't be troubled by actual power for a generation, so we'll all be thrown under a train to keep the w*****rs together.
I'm starting to share Binners' view about Corbyn. He's about as much use as a handbrake in a canoe.
Lots of successful countries have a history of broad coalition government. Looking at the current shower of shit running things and in opposition, I'd say that, and PR, is exactly what this country needs.
What happened if the opposition party actually stood up and actually vocalised the madness of this situation and made a case for a peoples vote, as their members had instructed them to do?
See above. It's a dead duck anyway, irrespective of labour support, there's about as much support across parliament for a second referendum as there is a no deal brexit. Why campaign for something that will never happen and risk splitting the party in the process? It's political suicide.
The 'opposition' you want will result in labour being out of power forever and perpetual tory govt. Given we're about to leave the EU, does that increase or decrease the chances of a disaster capitalism brexit you rightly warn about?
So to recap
Tonight's loss was worth sweet FA as it had no legal force...hahahaha
You couldn't make it up why vote then
May says I'll carry on regardless
Tonight’s loss was worth sweet FA as it had no legal force…hahahaha
You couldn’t make it up why vote then
May says I’ll carry on regardless
Well that is the short version....
Longer, the BBC covered it... but May can carry on, she doesn't have a leg to stand on, won't get her deal through and has sent a few over the edge. It's a long game of procedural chess, I guess the movie will be a better watch
Both May and Corbyn are walking tightropes.
Corbyn is toeing his ideological line and doesn't give a **** if that means the Labour party split. That is quite clear from the fact that he is happy to get in bed with the ERG and haemorrhage remainer votes.
Edit and deleted
That is quite clear from the fact that he is happy to get in bed with the ERG
So Corbyn wants to split his party and commit political suicide in order to find common cause with neo-fascist plutocrats funded by dark money? Care to share your views on 9/11, the moon landings and lizards ruling the world? You are David Icke and I claim my £5.
I have no idea what magic grandads motivations are. He’s hardly forthcoming on the subject
What I do know for sure is that ever since June 24th 2016 he has done everything in his power to facilitate a hard Brexit that is a wet dream of the hard right, and in doing so betraying everything the Labour Party is meant to stand for
Feel free to keep making excuses for him if you like. I don’t think it washes with many any more apart from the most terminally deluded
He’s either a hard right sleeper cell or a useful idiot
Take your pick...
Take your pick…
Well eventually you might get your shot with the Chuka Umunna party.
If even your constant bashing was relevant, the fact that you have formed all of your opinions about magic grandad at the expense of other decent policies that Labour could offer the country post Brexit - does nothing to ultimately resolve the downward trajectory delivered by the Tories.
I'm sure we could find people well to the left of Umunna who can see through Milne&Co.
Take your pick…
It will be like this except the camera will get nicked
What I do know for sure is that ever since June 24th 2016 he has done everything in his power to facilitate a hard Brexit that is a wet dream of the hard right
So how do you square this with the repeated and consistent call for a permanent customs union? I'm really not on a mission here to defend Corbyn, but I am trying to point out that labour's policy is the only one that seeks to both bridge the leave-remain divide and offer something that the EU have indicated that they might be able to accept. Why is that such a crazy proposition? It seems to me that it's the only option to avoid a no deal brexit.
You do get the concept that to actually deliver anything you actually have to be in power, right?
Guess who’s going to be in power on March 30th? Have a wild guess?
Clue: they’ve not got a beard
So, I may have spotted a flaw in the plan of using the EU exit to set up a socialist utopia.
Not least that you’ll have a Tory party, free from the shackles of the EU and with the far right wagging the dog to basically write our unwritten constitution with a blank sheet of paper
Good luck with the socialist utopia that’s going to bring about
(whisper it … the current Withdrawl Agreement already includes "a" Customs Union 'till something that delivers the same benefits can be arrived at … but most of the UK leaves "the" Single Market and "the" Customs Union at the end of the transition period … which it will still have to, no mattter what, unless someone budges on FoM … May and Corbyn are in the same place really … but their parties are not)
Daz - how many times?
To stay in the customs union you have to accept freedom of movement. Corbyn has put this as a red line. You can’t have one without the other
You know..... red unicorns
So Corbyn wants to split his party and commit political suicide in order to find common cause with neo-fascist plutocrats funded by dark money
Yes. But he is not intentionally finding common cause with neo fascists, he just ended up there because his brand of left wing politics has always found common cause with fascists. That point has been made abundantly clear by modern history, they feed off each other. The political spectrum is a horseshoe after all.
Corby is a blinkered true believer.
You do get the concept that to actually deliver anything you actually have to be in power, right?
See above again. Which of the options open to labour maximise the chances of them being able to be win an election? It's certainly not the ones which result in a split in the party.
Not least that you’ll have a Tory party, free from the shackles of the EU and with the far right wagging the dog to basically write our unwritten constitution with a blank sheet of paper
See above again. How does labour committing political suicide help prevent a tory party doing exactly what you say? So a different question from the 'what should labour do?' which never gets an answer: How can the tories be defeated without a united labour party?
Here's a question...the two party system is ****ed...but what do you replace it with
Which of the options open to labour maximise the chances of them being able to be win an election? It’s certainly not the ones which result in a split in the party
Well, they are being split by not supporting remain strongly enough....
He doesn't give a **** if remainers split away either, not because it wouldn't hurt the party but because they are not his ideological bedfellows.
You are literally giving him too much credit, this is a guy who likes to dress with a bit of Troysky-chic as if he is still 17.
I have been following the Brexit saga quite closely. But I have no idea what the vote was on that was lost today, can anyone fill me in?
Most news stories are just carrying the details of the defeat and potential ramifications, rather than what the vote was actually on..
That point has been made abundantly clear by modern history, they feed off each other. The political spectrum is a horseshoe after all.
Ah right so now we're equating Jeremy Corbyn to Stalin? Nicely done. It's like an inverted Godwin's Law. Honestly the hysteria on here is ridiculous, and probably indicative of why we are where we are. We really are truly f***** when otherwise intelligent people start making shit up. I used to think this was a peculiar brexiteer trait but now it seems to be universal. Honestly, if we do end up with no deal we'll deserve everything we get. Night all. Been fun as always 🙂
this is a guy who likes to dress with a bit of Troysky-chic as if he is still 17
I think if you're judging this by how Corbyn clothes himself then that says quite a lot.
But I have no idea what the vote was on that was lost today, can anyone fill me in?
Supporting the gov approach… that is… seeking an alternative to the backstop (which is currently the UK staying in Customs Union 'till other measures and a deal are in place that avoid a customs border on the island of Ireland, the backstop takes this form at the UK's request, but now we want it changed at the last minute, because only now have MPs been consulted on it)… and in addition noting that parliament expressed it's desire not to Leave without a Withdrawl Agreement. Simple.
ERG abstained, because they won't support anything that doesn't embrace a no deal Brexit as an option.
Labour whipped against because May hasn't included a permanent customs union as an option (even though the deal already allows any future UK government to agree to one with the EU if it wishes).
You can see why it isn't summed up in a subheading on a tabloid front page, or in a tweet from a journo.
Ah right so now we’re equating Jeremy Corbyn to Stalin? Nicely done. It’s like an inverted Godwin’s Law
No, I'm equating him and his view of how politics should be conducted with the Communists that had running street battles with fascists during the interwar period. During this period, the two ideologies fed off each other, attracted the same kinds of people and those people often swapped sides relatively easily. You might not be able to accuse him of the latter but a lot of his supporters would happily swing from labour to ukip.
I think if you’re judging this by how Corbyn clothes himself then that says quite a lot
What would you presume if Jacob Rees Mogg started waltzing about in Hugo Boss leathers?
Fantastic photo
What would you presume if Jacob Rees Mogg started waltzing about in Hugo Boss leathers?
I would presume not to have a clue what kind of point you are trying to make??!!
Check out the hardcore Cobynite sites like ‘red labour’ on Twitter and friendface. They’re rabidly opposed to a People’s vote, just like Corbyn is, because they want their Brexit.
Give it a f***ing rest, will you?
May wasn't even in parliament for the vote last night...
Corbyn won't get a GE before March.
Labour position doesn't make sense. They forgot to include the people vote on the letter to the Pm.
And May is quite happy to wait as long as possible knowing that only the Libdem and SNP are trying to stop her.
Supporting Corbyn and Labour is helping Brexit and the Tories. Simple as that.
How does labour committing political suicide help prevent a tory party doing exactly what you say
Thats not really a bad thing for most of the "moderates". Remember they arent really overly fond of actually having a left wing party and got very upset when the drive rightwards (especially economically) seems to have been temporarily halted by actually electing a left wing leader. A massive defeat would allow them a chance to regain control and, overall, they would probably be happy with the tories anyway (well until the ERG takes over).
That the Labour party diving rightwards helped contribute to this mess doesnt seem to have crossed their mind. The main problem with the "moderates" is they dont realise just how ideologically extreme they are.
A massive defeat would allow the a chance to regain control and, overall, they would probably be happy with the tories anyway (well until the ERG takes over).
I’m coming to the same conclusion. The cult of anti-corbynism has got to the point where they’ll risk an ERG lead brexit in order to get rid of him.
To stay in the customs union you have to accept freedom of movement. Corbyn has put this as a red line. You can’t have one without the other
Not true. If the set of red lines given to the EU was different they would come back with a different deal. If some of May's other red lines were missing you can't say what would be offered.