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Kelvin Brexit is bad for all 27 Germany inckuded and probably especially
But good for the UK?
Yes jambalaya, please explain.
They need us more than we need them! Which is why no-one over here is even mentioning it - they are obviously too scared to bring it up and in total denial about how it's going to destroy their economy while HMS Brittania sails off into the sunlit uplands.
They need us more than we need them!
What a quaint perspective.
I've yet to see any hard evidence for this category of assertion. This sort of belief largely seems to be a statement of nostalgic national pride/arrogance, rather than bearing any reference to international finance and policy.
Letter to Boris re. that £350m.
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@mrmo if RyanAir could not fly to/from UK to EU the company would go bust. Anyway Ryan as always was just going for the free headline. / publicity. I was speaking of his UK to/from EU flights statement not about inter EU flights
Outside the EU we will have absolute flexibility to focus our trade policy where we wish. Without any shadow of a doubt import and export business with the EU will go down even with a free trade deal as we will have other free trade deals which will cut inti EU business
Very mischievous of Boris ahead of TM's important speech on Friday but absolutely correct to out the NHS / £ 350m back on the front page. Strong ground for Leave and he is totally correct that we can make that sort of aspirational plan. As I said before no EU budget contributions and WTO tariffs with EU gives is far more than £350m pw to play with even including keeping all existing "EU" spending in the UK
Last post from me me for a few months having further reflected on abusive stuff posted here over past few weeks (since deleted but no bans afaik). Also bans handed out to some other STWers smack of double standards so this is not a place for me
With all the bounteous milk and honey we'll certainly need to beef up NHS spending on obesity-related diseases.
WTO tariffs with EU
Ummm, these are taxes we would be putting on imports from the EU?
Which us UK consumers would be paying?
i.e. a stealth tax!
Last post from me me for a few months having further reflected on abusive stuff posted here over past few weeks (since deleted but no bans afaik). Also bans handed out to some other STWers smack of double standards so this is not a place for me
🙁
Shame Jamba but understandable. You argue courteously if from a rather odd viewpoint. the least others could do is return the favour and be courteous
[quote=jambalaya ]Very mischievous of Boris ahead of TM's important speech on Friday but absolutely correct to out the NHS / £ 350m back on the front page.
It's a shame lying isn't such a successful tactic on here.
You can post order-order links, grossly inaccurate stats, misreprestations of reality, blatant lies, xenophobia.. as politely as you like and it still is anything but courteous. It's an insult to people's inteligence, an insult to their humanist values, an insult to their integrity. I find Jamba's contributions to this thread increasingly insulting. That's just the way it is Jambalya, you and people like you are the enemies are of values I hold dear.
As I said before no EU budget contributions and WTO tariffs with EU gives is far more than £350m pw to play with even including keeping all existing "EU" spending in the UK
really? it's odd then that leave haven't increased that number even further?
still, i imagine, as you've received abuse ( i'm on here a lot more than i should be and i've certainly not seen anything that could be construed as abuse directed at you personally 'in the last few weeks' ), you won't be answering this with any data of any value. like pretty much anything else you post that you then get challenged on, even if you were continuing to post, you'd just ignore the question. again.
toodle pip.
I disagree Edukator - you can point out the ridiculous fallacies in his argument without resorting to personal attacks
Quality flounce Jamba. Just use your other log in when you feel the need to post on the forum.
+1 edukator.
Johnson has always been a serial bullshitter
Re-using the 350m lie is shameful, but the hardcore Brexies are doubling down on their lies as the promised land is turning out to be not so wonderful after all.
The utter humiliation of May should also be considered as Johnson is so blatantly positioning himself before the party conference.
Repeating the £350m is inexcusable and shameful. Bojo has zero credibility
Edukator, given that you post as many, if not more, false statements than Jambas on this issue, your comments re integrity, value.and insulting have as much credibility as a Bojo column. No smiley required.
Shame Jambas feels the way he does and why that wasn't dealt with.
Iirc Jamba also said that figure was bs, but that the number was irrelevant, even beneficial if inflated, as it kept everyone talking about it during the campaign.
Guess that's the problem with making stuff up. You have to remember it all or you get caught out.
Well that was true. The Brexshiteers controlled the narrative much better than we did. Sad that the core was a series of lies and that we struggled to contradict them
What a crap job we did - didn't learn from the Indy vote where even bigger BS almost won the day.
One thing jezza actually can do if his heart is in the message. Not in this case obviously
Well that was true. The Brexshiteers controlled the narrative much better than we did. Sad that the core was a series of lies and that we struggled to contradict them
Not really and, like with the leave campaign, saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Remain had to sell the current deal with the few concessions that CMD had won, with a promise to try harder next time negotiations came up. Basically, here is more of the same. Even many remainers weren't hugely chuffed with what we had but it was better than not having it. There wasn't an exciting and positive case to sell because everyone thought they knew what it was.
Leave could promise what they liked, particularly Farage, Banks, et al. as they weren't even officially on the team sheet so couldn't be called to account as easily. Every time someone drew attention to the "lie", the "lie" got more air and you could debate until you are blue in the face but it was very rare to be able to refute it AND get the refutation given widespread publicity given that the major media outlets were openly leave supporting or neutral.
Bottom line is that selling dreams is easier than selling reality, particularly to many people who needed dreams more than their current reality. Sensible arguments can't make headway against alluring fantasy, particularly when, and let's be honest, most people only listen to the headlines they like the sound of and don't understand the deeper ramifications of what they are voting on because it is so very, very complex (outside my specific areas of expertise I include myself in this).
In those situations there is no controlling the narrative for remain, all the campaign could do was hope that enough people were scared of the risks.
So, new free trade deals, removing tariffs from trade, good.Outside the EU we will have absolute flexibility to focus our trade policy where we wish. Without any shadow of a doubt import and export business with the EU will go down even with a free trade deal as we will have other free trade deals which will cut inti EU business
So, no free trade deal, adding new tariffs to trade, also good?Very mischievous of Boris ahead of TM's important speech on Friday but absolutely correct to out the NHS / £ 350m back on the front page. Strong ground for Leave and he is totally correct that we can make that sort of aspirational plan. As I said before no EU budget contributions and WTO tariffs with EU gives is far more than £350m pw to play with even including keeping all existing "EU" spending in the UK
Just heard John Redwood saying that "we're an open and friendly country that wants good relationships with all the countries in the E.U."
Oh. So why don't we just stay in the E.U., then?
Like I said, doubling down on the lies
So Maybot's trip to Japan went well
http://m.dw.com/en/brexit-japanese-companies-set-to-leave-london/a-40523696
I'm sure order/order will paint it in a positive light.
People who want to tell us what to do objecting to people telling them what to do. Lovely.
Has jambalaya leaving the thread distracted us from this setback?
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-oliver-robbins-quits-department-permanent-secretary-eu-talks-theresa-may-david-davis-boris-a7952756.html ]Oliver Robbins quits[/url]
I don't think he's quit.
I think he's still the senior civil servant on the negotiating team but now reporting to May not Davis.
Make of that what you will. I could interpret it several ways.
I am interpreting it as 'turns out that Davis really is a first class idiot and impossible to work with'.
So yeah maybe leaving Davis out of the loop is the best brexit news all week. 😆
Like I said several interpretations - that's only one of them.
Poor old Boris. This article shows why it may be now or never for him - it's all very well being the panto twunt to get exposure and attention, but when it's your only trick and a bigger Panto-twunt like Rees Mogg appears, you're liable to fade a bit.
It's our own fault, really. We've turned politics into a cross between panto and reality TV and we are now getting the 'personalities' we deserve. The decline in average intelligence amongst the populace has many ramifications - Brexit is just the biggest foul up we've had a result. So far.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/17/boris-johnson-foreign-secretary-tory ]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/17/boris-johnson-foreign-secretary-tory[/url]
If nothing else works, then a total pig headed unwillingness to look the facts in the face will see us through....
Name that quote...
General Melchett.
Now give us a difficult one. 🙄
Oooh challenge accepted... googling only cheats thyme self -
Hit them were they ain't...
An apt one considering this thread is Brexit-related.
"Patriotism is the less refuge of a scoundrel".
Think Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg etc.
Oh and for 'scoundrel' think '****'.
The Brexit process
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But the F1 car starts out as a sleek, technological wonder.
Are there any gifs of a pile of stinking shit that just degrades and gets even fouler and shittier as time goes by?
Hmmm. Names to conjure with.
Lord Bridges
Lord Price
Olly Robbins
Dominic Cummings
Make of it what you will. Strongly sturdy I'd say.
Or how about this?
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Slowoldman - someone will be along in a bit to suggest the front wheels chose to leave the bureaucratic nightmare of the car and are now rolling along far better than the car. "The car needs us more than we need them", the wheels cry.
I suspect they still lost that race however you cut it.
The golf one works quite well.
The kid has obviously had a mare and duck-hooked a shit drive off the tee.
All he has to do is admit he's got it wrong, declare the ball unplayable and take a penalty drop.
But no, the idiot doubles down on the initial mistake and makes a total bollocks of it.
Isn't that the 4th senior advisor that Davis has lost this year?
His look of permanent befuddlement not an act ? Thick as mince & lazy as a toad, eh.
Things have got bad when May steps in to show strength & stability!
Johnsons desperate attempt to save his reputation (& scupper May's soft? Brexit speech in Florence) was backed only by Gove Wormtongue & Rees-Mogg the Craven who's just happy there is someone he can get behind rather than do the job himself..
Things have got bad when May steps in to show strength & stability!
Be careful what you wish for. That senior advisor working for Maybot may be down to the fact that Maybot wants her vision of Brexit pushed through, after she gets the powers of the repeal bill and stacking the committees in her favour.
We know that the immigration report a few weeks back was prepared by personnel working in the home office and reporting directly to Maybot and bypassing the home secretary.
Maybot is a classic career politician, will keep going with her vision of Britain regardless of whether the Britsh electorate want it or not.
our only saving grace/hope is that she probably lacks the power to do this/ is really crap at delivering.