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so far proved to be wrong
Brexit hasn't happened yet.
The predictions of what would happen following the vote and acting Art 50 have been pretty accurate; the pound falling and individuals/companies/institutions preparing for divorce.
The impact of those decisions will be a time coming and the main impact of Brexit won't be felt until it happens.
There is a positive impact on tourism at present because of the low pound. However, the need to pay for a passport will dissuade European tourists, especially school groups, when Brexit happens. Companies are still waiting to know what trading conditions will be before planning investments that will have major implications more than a few years forward. Exports are enjoying a currency related boom, I'm surprised they haven't risen more, but that's temporary. Households are still able to live on credit but any hint of an economic slow down and banks will strangle the consumer.
You are in the lull before the storm, but the storm is coming.
On the contrary as always good to read what the oppo are saying so that you can understand where they are coming from.
THM - I agree to a point. However with that piece, where he is coming from is a political conviction that the EU is bad and scary based on the delusion that the UK had handed its independence over (note: if we had we could not have decided to leave).
And I'm also more inclined to read and think about something if it contains something new. Unfortunately I first read the guts of that piece of fantasy over a year ago and it wasn't convincing then.
Jamba - you need to refresh your propaganda team. As with so many things about your lot, it's stuck in the past.
We shall see whether the EU protects Irelands interests which are very closely aligned to the UK's - from the Guardian
The paper emerged days after Barnier met Ireland’s foreign minister, Simon Coveney, in Brussels. Coveney told the EU negotiator that the UK’s decision to leave the EU had “[b]potentially an extraordinarily negative impact on Ireland and on the island of Ireland[/b]”.
Edukator the GLOBAL recession was to begin immediately upon a Brexit vote. The UK has RECORD levels of employment and significantly INCREASED exports in the last 12 months. That's real economic data @mikesmith not Project Armageddon bollix from "respected experts"
@igm I am not surprised you didn't read the piece, you don't want to know about any alternative views to your own
The EU has no way of fully protecting Ireland from the UK decision. I have no idea why you don't except the damage is your fault for joining the call for this folly, not the fault of the EU in not to being able to wave a magic wand and protect people from the damage caused by Brexit.“potentially an extraordinarily negative impact on Ireland and on the island of Ireland”.
The UK has RECORD levels of employment and significantly INCREASED exports in the last 12 months.
Which is nice, but the reality is we are all POORER thanks to Brexit and it be hasn't happened yet!
Just coz Cameron & Osborne over egged the pudding doesn't mean it's not still a sad mistake, driven by ignorance and xenophobia.
Science white pair released yesterday, gov want to stay in EU research funds but query is we will no longer be net recipients from the EU science budget and as with so many other things, we lose influence, aiming for equivalence with Switzerland who can still apply for grants but dont get a say in shaping science policy.
Brexit reducing Britain
Nonsesne @kelvin, the EU can agree a Free Trade Deal and a sensible border arrangement with the UK if it CHOOSES. However the EU is playing people against process just like Davies says. Ex the UK the EU has 440m people of which Ireland makes up 6m (roughly half the size of Greece), therein lies Ireland's problem. They are just a pasn in the EU's game. 80% of Ireland's (mostly perishable) exports which leave by road go via the UK, they need a constructive EU solution.
Naive comment
That's a bit harsh on Mrmo 😉
Of course when CMD made the same points (broadly) he was roundly laughed at but the ironies in this whole issues are endless
IGM - cogdon is a very vocal Brexshiteer. He is also a bright guy, so worth seeing what he is saying at least if nothing else to understand why he is wrong. While there is a fantasy overlay, the only hard bits in the piece related to labour market stats which are on the button.
Despite what ed pretends above, the impact on the economy has been muted so far and largely the effects felt by the decline in £. Nothing unusual in that at all. In fact the unusual aspect has been the resilience in the face of all the doommongers. Perhaps there are enough people getting on with life instead of remoaning
Which reminds me - I have to finish a Brexshit report for work today. Do I go safe or contraversial?!?
The World's top 10 Universities, 1 and 2 are Oxford and Cambridge, Imperial College in the mix too. The rest are in the US and Zurich creeps in at joint 10th but Switzerland isn't in the EU and of course voted to NEVER join.
Which reminds me - I have to finish a Brexshit report for work today. Do I go safe or contraversial?!?
Well if the audience are Remainers you have to play politics and just tell them what they want to hear, no ? Sooner or later business is going to have to stop moaning and get on with the job, if they don't the stock market is going to pan those it thinks are unprepared and who is going to buy shares in a company with a negative or pessimistic CEO, look what happened to Carphone Warehouse and WPP when they annouced profit warnings - you'll get the same or worse with a Remoaner.
well there is the straightforward versions and the real version which is highly complex. I will have done enough by 12:00 to determine which way to go! Enjoy the debate....
We have one of those already. It's taken a long time, and a lot of effort on all sides, to achieve it. The endeavour you have pushed for risks all that has been achieved, and you'll be looking to blame others for not finding a new solution, and implementing it, in less than two years. Nice of you to pretend you give a shit about Ireland though.a sensible border arrangement
1 and 2 are Oxford and Cambridge, Imperial College in the mix too.
All of which have warned that Brexit will damage them & science + research in the UK....
Sooner or later business is going to have to stop moaning and get on with the job
AHH yes it's business' fault they won't sign up to May's freaky propaganda letter saying brexit's gonna be brill
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Once again the brexies are looking to shift the blame.
the EU can agree a Free Trade Deal and a sensible border arrangement with the UK if it CHOOSES. However the EU is playing people against process just like Davies says.
Can you explain exactly why it's the EU's fault and not ours for making unreasonable demands?
UK is responsible for Brexit, not the EU.
Maybe it is time for you to take responsibilities for your actions and stop blaming others.
Can you explain exactly why it's the EU's fault and not ours for making unreasonable
They set a silly timetable that is meant to frustrate negotiations not accelerate them. Classic tactic, but exposed this time round.
UK is responsible for Brexshit, not the UK
😯 which conveniently ignored why people voted the way they did. Marvellous!!
according to Times Higher Education
Not that that would be as biased as a biased thing of course. Britain blowing its own trumpet again. Even if true that's before Brexit. How many graduates does China now produce per year, and the US, and Europe? You say Ireland with 6 million people isn't of concern to EU (it most definitely is as priority Barnier gives to an Irish solution demonstrate - more important than trade), well intellectually Britain is falling behind on quantity and quality, and a couple of elite universities educating wealthy but not especially bright foreigners won't change that.
It's easy to spot when you are exaggerating, Jamba. You let us know with block capitals.
Oxford and Cambridge seem to specialise in producing [u][b]upper-class twits divorced from reality[/b][/u]. Recently we have Johnson, Cameron and May.
It's easy to spot when you are exaggerating,...Oxford and Cambridge seem to specialise in producing upper-class twits divorced from reality.
A wonderful self pawn there Ed. :D. I like plenty of starch on mine...
the EU can agree a Free Trade Deal and a sensible border arrangement with the UK if it CHOOSES
How? the UK insists that it wants to check EU (at least non-Irish) passports at the RoI/NI border, how is this compatible with free unchecked movement for Irish (and returning British for that matter)?
The British navy blocking Irish ports and the RAf imposing a no-fly zone? 💡
got to love these business leaders who already backed brexit and got fully behind it.
dyson wants CAP subsidies left in place, well i guess you might as the biggest landowner in the country who does very nicely out of them, thank you, and witherspoon wants immigration levels to remain the same so his flow of labour remains intact.
i imagine we can look forward to dyson announcing he'll be bringing manufacturing back to the UK from malaysia imminently?
no, i'm not holding my breath either.
I'm not overly worried about Oxford and Cambridge's reputation now - more like in ten years' time.
So now that leaving is most definitely taking place, whether we like it or not, I think we now need to be concentrating on the way its being done.
Whats being proposed today is a ridiculous, and deeply worrying thing to be happening in any democracy. Its shameless opportunism, and indeed a blatant power grab, as even being pointed out by some less mental Tory MP's.
The words 'copy and paste' are being used about transferring EU law into British law by the Brexit bill, but that just isn't the case at all. Some laws will, some laws won't. And what does or doesn't is at the behest of ministers, without any parliamentary scrutiny, thanks to the use of arcane and totally anti-democratic, and anti-constitutional statutes. They've basically given themselves a blank sheet of paper to re-write our constitution
Have a think about that. Enola, Boris, Liam and Dave have got the opportunity to wipe laws out, behind closed doors, without any oversight. I don't know about you but I'd be hard pushed to think of anyone I'd trust less with that kind of power
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/05/eu-withdrawal-bill-executive-coup-brexit ]The EU Withdrawal Bill is nothing short of an executive coup[/url]
We should all be worried where they're taking us. They may be clueless in Brussels, but I'm pretty sure they already know what they're planning on doing with this new executive power. May is an out-and-out authoritarian who doesn't like oversight.
I wouldn't trust this lot as far as I could throw them. Someone is certainly taking back control. But it most certainly isn't the UK electorate
Recently we have Johnson, Cameron and May.
Don't forget our new PM-in-waiting Rees-Mogg.
Moog isn't a minister. Yet.
Oh, the bill also gives full power to ministers (with no parliament scrutiny) to exit without an exit agreement, when it wants, if talks break down. There is no provison for parliament to instruct government to try harder, or adjust its position, in order to get an exit agreement. Good news for the nutters only.
[url= https://thetab.com/2014/05/15/mps-14201 ]Where your MPs were indoctrinated[/url]
[url= https://thetab.com/uk/2017/08/31/the-guy-who-burnt-a-20-note-in-front-of-a-homeless-man-has-finally-apo-47564 ]And who they are before even being indoctrinated[/url]
I believe those rules are called "Freedom of movement", no?
Pretty much. I think he just wants it to come unencumbered by any of those tedious rules about employment rights and such like.
Which is the really fun thing about Brexit. The brexiters dreams of an ideal outcome are generally incompatible with their fellow travellers.
Sooner or later business is going to have to stop moaning and get on with the job
Yes we should all just jolly well toe the line.
that would be a good idea - Brexshit isn't going away, solutions have to be found, and we have to get on with it....
Nothing new there.
that would be a good idea - Brexshit isn't going away, solutions have to be found, and we have to get on with it....
I love this, how exactly, can me, the man in the street 'get on with it' or 'find a solution'?
Other than just carrying on with my life in general, which I think you'll find we all have, and being pretty pissed off that the drop in the pound has made my shopping more expensive, and tightening my belt accordingly, what exactly can I do?
*for the record I think brexit is a terrible idea.
Ah more patronising, are you not at all worried thm about the lack of oversight proposed? The powers being granted there? Feel free to be ambivalent here but give it a rest telling others to be, it's a democracy, people have the power and right to disagree, campaign and stand up for what they believe in.
solutions have to be found
source elsewhere (Britain doesn't have the monopoly on this idea, Jamba)
sell elsewhere
move manufacturing to the continent
switch to continental trading platforms
take school kids to Strasbourg rather than London
increase ferry frequencies to Ireland
apply tarifs to prevent Britain gaining unfair advantage from fiscal and social dumping
Make all those British tax fiddles illegal fro Europeans.
In fact the unusual aspect has been the resilience in the face of all the doommongers. Perhaps there are enough people getting on with life instead of remoaning
People have lives to get on with, jobs to do, goods to sell. All this plus the tsunami of negativity is unblanaced and not reflective of the reality on the ground. Sooner or later business execs will start talking about their plans for post Brexit and [b]opportunities[/b]. They well kniw a CEO who is all doom and gloom will be out in a heartbeat to be replaced by one who seeks to run his business in the best way given the circumstances confronting him or her.
All this plus the tsunami of negativity is unblanaced and not reflective of the reality on the ground
So hang on a second, let me get this straight.
People are telling you of all the problems they are seeing or expecting in their areas, and you are dismissing it even though it's not your area of business? That right?
Make all those British tax fiddles illegal fro Europeans.
Ireland should take the €13 BILLION in evaded taxes from apple the EU says it should and use those to boost it's economy rather than saying they don't need the money.
Sea transport is really really slow and won't work for perishable goods. The Irish are a major exporter of agricultural goods as is France, they need road transport. It's not about sourcing from elsewhere it's about their most significant export market.
Ireland is very exposed to the whims of the EU and they know it and are voicing their concerns publically
They well kniw a CEO who is all doom and gloom will be out in a heartbeat to be replaced by one who seeks to run his business in the best way given the circumstances confronting him or her.
Or perhaps they actually got to be ceo you knowing a thing going or 2, they are telling the truth. So you want to get them replaced with people towing trlhe brexit line regardless of what is going on? Sounds like the sort of idiot you wouldn't want in charge.
Oops Osbourne scores a massive own goal with this cartoon. EU workers just do the low skilled jobs eh ?
https://order-order.com/2017/09/07/standards-kelly-osbourne-moment/
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Jamba, THM - don't assume I didn't read it. As I said I saw almost exactly the same stuff from a Brexy about a year ago.
Given I never believed in economic Armageddon, I'm not surprised it hasn't happened.
I am expecting dead by a thousand cuts though, and the evidence is there for that.
As I said Jamba - Brexies, stuck in a fantasy or stuck in the past, both sometimes both. Your lot need to swap out you propagandists, their all a bit last year.
not reflective of the reality on the ground
f'ing priceless. i've given you several examples of the realities on the ground from our business, the increased costs and complexities, and you've roundly ignored them. funny that.
Sea transport is really really slow and won't work for perishable goods.
There is no alternative to Ireland. It doesn't much matter if goods go via the UK or France in terms of time. Roscoff direct avoids a sea or tunnel crossing and will in future avoid customs formalities which I hope will be slower than the extra time at sea. Im' sure that can be organised..
got to be ceo you knowing a thing going or 2, they are telling the truth. So you want to get them replaced with people towing trlhe brexit line regardless of what is going on? Sounds like the sort of idiot you wouldn't want in charge.
Telling the truth 🙂 I'll let TMH comment on that one in detail if he wishes ! I'll give you bank CEOs talming aboit their balance sheet strength and quality in 2007 and 2008 and they didn't have any "low quality assets", no none, not at all.
It's not about towing the line its about dealing with the world and making the most of it. Shareholders demand positive returns, a whinging negative CEO hankering after the past is appealing to preceisely no one.
Capacity Edukator. I've taken the ferry to Roscoff and sailed in there too. It's a small port and even to Roscoff it's slow. Cherbourg or Le Havre are better options, capacity ?
Ireland needs road transport via the UK and it needs tariff free access to the UK market. WTO tariffs are generally low except for agcriculture where the opposite is true. It's a big problem. PM May deliberately did NOT include agriculture as a priority in her 11 point Brexit plan to put pressure on the EU? Fisheries is potentially nuclear too, French and Spanish fleets would be devastated without access.
Have a look on your supermarket shelves, Jamba. Now consider the costs of alternatives to Irelend or the rest of the EU, transport time (as you seem concerned about the difference between Fishguard and Roscoff), cost, quality... . Short of a ban Brits will continue to consume EU produce in very large quantities becuase there's a shortage without..
Fisheries is potentially nuclear too, French and Spanish fleets would be devastated without access.
As would English fleet without access to Irish or Norwegian waters or importantly to EU markets as we only eat cod
If only there was some sort of large international cooperative union that we could be part of....
Oops Osbourne scores a massive own goal
Yeah massive, it's on all the news channels, I imagine he'll have to retire in shame 😆
Far from it, but that cartoon is a comment on May's leaked plans to specifically keep low skilled (or more correctly low paid) EU workers out of the country, or only allow them in for a maximum of 2 years with greatly reduced rights.EU workers just do the low skilled jobs eh ?