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If that were possible, why aren’t we doing it already?
Because it doesn't makes financial sense currently. There is no shortage of land and it is not even worth a lot of money as can't be built on anyway. I am not talking about South East by the way, anyone who lives South/South West knows there are miles and miles of fields and land where this could be done. And as you would be setting up from scratch it could be highly automated.
Government could give grants to get it going etc,. but then we don't really wan to be self sufficient do we?
Survation have Labour in a 3pt over Tories in latest poll.
And that is before any electioneering occurs, Labour using social media effectively etc,. (remember the last pre election poll vs result)
Absolutely. And James O'Brien has been a consistent heavy-handed critic too over the last few weeks.
Whether it means nothing at all it's still interesting watching the polls, and Twitter celebs eat themselves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46847169
"Blocking Brexit could incite far-right extremism, warns Grayling"
Ooh, I know this one. We shout "Project Fear, we don't listen to experts any more" don't we?
“Blocking Brexit could incite far-right extremism, warns Grayling”
Would it incite the far right more than enabling brexit has?
“Blocking Brexit could incite far-right extremism, warns Grayling”
So the best way to prevent far right extremism is to appease it by giving it what it wants?
No, we treat it like a naughty child and show it that this is not the way to get what you want...
Edit: or ignore it, because what it wants is unicorns...
Because it doesn’t makes financial sense currently.
And why do you suppose that might be?
That's a bit like saying the only way to avoid being raped is to give consent.
What a disgusting specimen.
Of course graylings concern with the rise of the far right is that they'll be recruiting from the right of the tory party, weakening them in some areas (as ukip was starting to) and making it harder for them to cling to power.
On the other hand if brexit does happen there could be an equal number of pro European tories who will be looking for someone else to vote for, thereby weakening the tory vote in key areas and making it harder for them to cling to power.
Nice work Dave.
It was market day today and at the was a chart in market square inviting people to firstly put a sticker on May's deal, no deal, or cancel Brexit. Secondly decided by the government, parlement, or the people's vote.
The cancel Brexit box was almost full, no deal 1/3 full. 1 sticker in May's.
People's vote was the overwhelming winner for the second part.
Our constituency was 60% leave in the referendum. Of course it changes nothing but it made me feel a bit better about where I live.
Neil Warnock makes his pitch for gammon leadership. "To hell with the rest of the world!"
Now seems an apt time to point out that Neil Warnock is an anagram of Colin W***er.
Obviously the swear filter won’t let appear properly, but you don’t need to be Alan Turing to work it out.
Talking of footy, Pinaars Politics just interviewed both Iain Duncan Smith and Jamie Caarragher on the subject of Brexit. One of them made considerably more sense on the subject than the other. I'll leave you to guess which
Does that mean Jamie is going to moved from BT? Given he has been unable to complete a sentence on live football without contradicting himself he might just have found his calling
At least he's not Steve McMannoman though Mike.
Iain Duncan Smith was doing his usual. When those pesky inconvenient 'facts' were pointed out to him, he just airily dismissed them and assured everyone that a no deal scenario would be just fine and dandy. Well, I'm sure it will be for you Iain, but not so sure most of the rest of us, devoid as we are of bottomless riches, would be quite so good.
Another thing thats so depressing about him and his ilk is they talk about things purely in financial terms. No mention whatsoever of all the otehr important stuff. Its all just about money.
Mr. Duncan lives in a house worth £1 million given to him by his father in law.
Its all just about money.
Ultimately, though, it is. No Deal will cripple the UK financially. Long term NHS plan? Rip it up, won’t be possible.
Coppers on the street to arrest thugs harassing MPs, Muslim women, whoever? Sorry, austerity cuts were nothing compared to this.
Literally everything depends on it. Not least the mollycoddled lifestyles of a lot of people who voted Leave. In a global sense, we live massively beyond our means, leaving takes away a lot of that protection.
They had a quote from my parents MP for North Northumberland, "May's deal is a failure, we can't vote for it. But a no deal with the appropriate planned stuff (you know idiot bollocks) will be much better" Deluded, utterly uninformed and borderline dangerous.
I hope that we can get no deal finished off next week, it's needs to be off the table.
Literally everything depends on it. Not least the mollycoddled lifestyles of a lot of people who voted Leave.
The Brexiteers I loath most (MIL & FIL, I’m looking at you) are the older racist stains on the planet that say it’s not about the money, it’s bigger than that but when pressed feel no need to forgo their triple lock pensions and allow their financial future to ebb and flow post brexit along with their teenage grandkid. Will not shed a tear when they pop their clogs, hopfilly sooner rather than later.
going by the dailywail comments it's not racist it's freedom of speech.
going by the dailywail comments it’s not racist it’s freedom of speech.
Well it would be, wouldn’t it?
Tiresome shite from a disgusting rag targeted at the hard of thinking.
#proud2bebritish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46836957
No really it’s not...
Isn't it exciting, two days to back to square one.
If this post appears twice it's not my fault right, it's just vanished without trace so I'm trying again.
If it all ends up with the U.K. staying in the EU after all, are we allowed to say to the wreckers “You lost. Get over it”? 😜
How will the removal of mainland workers affect the pensions black hole?
How many years extra will I have to work to pay for this debacle?
We have already seen the use of "emergency powers" to fund bungs for donors . I'm sure we will see many more such emergencies.
The only thing the Brexiters have left is leave or we kill democracy, they can't find a single positive message to sell either this deal or brexit to the people or parliament.
Another glimmer of hope.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46856149
If this is democracy, this is what we are seeking to protect by honouring Brexit then perhaps China has a bloody point.
As you say Mike, what a utterly hollow and last resort way of trying to flog a dead horse that's already been tinned and eaten by dogs.
Dogs have tin openers?
The only thing the Brexiters have left is leave or we kill democracy, they can’t find a single positive message to sell either this deal or brexit to the people or parliament.
You forget, it's the will of the people.
For some reason I don't mix with any people that are Brexiters but speaking to Father in law at weekend (who has some Brexiter pensioner friends) they have admitted that they didn't realise it would be this hard, such a big impact and no longer think it is that good an idea so not fussed if it now doesn't happen.
I would guess quite a few of the Leave voters probably think this, even if they wouldn't want to admit it, and the real brexiters would be those kicking off, joining UKIP etc,. just as they did before
Its bizzare that May seems to be using the prospect of Remain as some sort of threat. She is completely deluded
Half the country (and it will now be at least half) will be absolutely delighted if this doesn't go ahead.
The other half won't be pleased by anything as their version of Brexit doesn't exist.
So why not delight half the country rather than appease the other lot who'll never be satisfied anyway.
Mrs May will say: "I ask MPs to consider the consequences of their actions on the faith of the British people in our democracy.
"Imagine if an anti-devolution House of Commons had said to the people of Scotland or Wales that despite voting in favour of a devolved legislature, Parliament knew better and would overrule them. Or else force them to vote again.
Hmm, that analogy would work if it was the EU telling us what to do. But it's not.
"What if we found ourselves in a situation where Parliament tried to take the UK out of the EU in opposition to a remain vote?
Near as damnit is the situation.
The only thing the Brexiters have left is leave or we kill democracy, they can’t find a single positive message to sell either this deal or brexit to the people or parliament.
That's hardly a surprise is it? Despite everyone frothing about failing Grayling's hamfisted attempt to warn about the far right, he has a point. The far right have already captured the disillusioned working/non-working class and have successfully persuaded them to vote against their own interests. Should brexit be cancelled they'll mobilise that support to create all manner of chaos and trouble.
It's all very well we in the middle classes patronisingly lecturing the oiks about how they've been conned by the far right ultras, but what we don't accept or realise is that they don't care. From their point of view they are putting the boot into the middle class metropolitan pinko politically correct elite and they have nothing left to lose.
Imagine if an anti-devolution House of Commons had said to the people of Scotland or Wales that despite voting in favour of a devolved legislature, Parliament knew better and would overrule them.
Oh, the irony. Conservative MPs said exactly that.
Should brexit be cancelled they’ll mobilise that support to create all manner of chaos and trouble.
Ignoring that, if we have Brexit, and it isn't the Brexit they voted for, exactly the same pressures will be at play.
Ignoring that, if we have Brexit, and it isn’t the Brexit they voted for, exactly the same pressures will be at play.
It will, yes. But in the minds of the brexit-supporting working class white man, it will be the middle class chattering classes in the big cities who will suffer most, so why should they care?
“Imagine if an anti-devolution House of Commons had said to the people of Scotland or Wales that despite voting in favour of a devolved legislature, Parliament knew better and would overrule them.
Would that be the same Theresa May who voted against the establishment of a Welsh Assembly after the Welsh had voted for it?
why should they care?
You miss my point, the "betrayal" and "ignored" narratives that will (not might) add fuel to the rise of the far right in Britain are already being framed so that they can be used whether we leave or not. Check out the Facebook ads being targeted at May and her deal. She is being betrayed as a traitor, and a target, just as much as any politican seeking to stop or delay Brexit.
Imagine if an anti-devolution House of Commons had said to the people of Scotland or Wales that despite voting in favour of a devolved legislature, Parliament knew better and would overrule them.
Oh, the irony. Conservative MPs said exactly that.
Indeed. Theresa May (and David Davies, and plenty of other Champions Of The Will Of The People) voted against implementing it at the time, and then the Tory manifesto in 2005 contained a pledge to stage - what's this? - only a second referendum!
more details in this thread:
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1084607886095982592
She's a barefaced ****ing liar. How she has the gall to stand up in public and spout this kind of shit is beyond me.
Conservative MPs said exactly that.
In the case of Wales they didnt just say that but also voted against the WILL OF THE PEOPLE.
so why should they care?
I dont think that was the point being made. It doesnt matter what happens. If you bow to their demands they will keep demanding more and blame the traitors/enemies of the people for the mess and there will be a mess if their dreams are met.
Sooner or later will need to stand up to them.
Its bizzare that May seems to be using the prospect of Remain as some sort of threat.
Her and Jeremy C Hunt have both done this in the past week.
A cynical part of me read it as: "Oh no, please don't vote against this. That would mean we'd have an excuse to cancel this almighty clusterfart brexit. I've left the proposal on your desk and highlighted the bits that would be really bad if you voted against. Wink."
Well this is hiliarous.
On the one hand, Theresa May is claiming that Parliament respected the result of the Welsh referendum, even though it had a wafer thin majority.
And the on the other hand, it turns out that she, and all the usual Brexit loons, voted against it, and campaigned to have it repealed, coming out with all sorts of hilarious quotes.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084607886095982592.html
You couldn't make this stuff up.
Imagine if an anti-devolution House of Commons had said to the people of Scotland or Wales that despite voting in favour of a devolved legislature, Parliament knew better and would overrule them. Or else force them to vote again
So what if they did ask us to vote again? Who cares? It's still the will of the people isn't it? By definition.
.
You miss my point, the “betrayal” and “ignored” narratives that will (not might) add fuel to the rise of the far right in Britain are already being framed so that they can be used whether we leave or not.
Yeah ok, missed that bit. I agree, the genie is already out of the bottle. I have/had huge reservations about another referendum or cancelling brexit for fear of where it might lead. But given that the far right forces are already in play the only thing left is to fight them so it makes little sense to give them exactly what they want. It's going to be an interesting few years.
So to avoid trouble we appease the far right? Yeah that generally plays out well.
So to avoid trouble we appease the far right? Yeah that generally plays out well.
If that was in reply to me that's not what I said. The very opposite in fact. The most effective way of doing that though is to cut off their support. You'll only do that by improving the lives of those at the bottom who are drawn to them.
So far the anti-brexit narrative has been driven by the very people who the working classes despise. The people who the far right are depending on will never be persuaded by the likes of Anna Soubry, Ken Clarke, Tony Blair and Vince Cable.
So to avoid trouble we appease the far right? Yeah that generally plays out well.
The thing you have to remember about any potential "trouble" is, the gammons are so very very loud but there's about six of them.
A fun game I've started playing over on that Facebook is "guess what they look like from their posts." Clicking through to their profile, a great many conform to stereotype. Aside from the occasional grannie, if your opening gambit is "Eric Pickles or Ronnie Pickering in about 15 years' time, wearing a football shirt despite not having kicked a ball in 40 years" then you rarely go far wrong. They're all keyboard warriors and Internet hard men, but the only trouble they're going have is seeing their willy when they go for a wee or being late to collect their pension.
So far the anti-brexit narrative has been driven by the very people who the working classes despise.
And yet the pro-brexit leaders are relateable, down-to-Earth working-class people like Boris, JRM and IDS. #CouldntMakeItUp
Did she drop the Welsh bit from her speech?
She has now.
I have/had huge reservations about another referendum or cancelling brexit for fear of where it might lead.
Coversely, I think the reaction and subsequent fall out will be utterly hilarious.
Any currency experts in?
We booked a holiday which needs to be paid in English pounds but I need to transfer the money from France.
Is the pound going to drop a bit more tomorrow if the deal is rejected?
When are the adults working behind the scenes going to jump out and save us?
And yet the pro-brexit leaders are relateable, down-to-Earth working-class people like Boris, JRM and IDS
True, but the difference between this motley crew and Soubry et al is that they understand propaganda and are prepared to lie through their teeth to tell the proles what they want to hear. It's not exactly unprecendented for the lower classes to be taken in by snake oil salesmen with dishonourable intentions is it?
Is the pound going to drop a bit more tomorrow if the deal is rejected?
It depends. if it's approved I'm fairly sure it'll tank, depending on whether the markets think rejection = no deal brexit or no brexit at all, it'll tank or surge, I reckon.
Edit: and if she bottles it again and cancels the vote the who knows?
Is the pound going to drop a bit more tomorrow if the deal is rejected?
Talk was of pound being boosted by the deal failing, as it means leaving is less likely.
We booked a holiday which needs to be paid in English pounds but I need to transfer the money from France.
Usual currency advice, are you happy with the price, how much change can you absorb and still be happy?
If that was in reply to me that’s not what I said
No dazh, not a direct reply to you, just an observation on what's being said by the likes Grayling and now May with her "trust in politics would suffer catastrophic harm".
trust in politics would suffer catastrophic harm
Yeah, that ship has already sailed.
Yeah, that ship has already sailed.
...and it's parliament not the government attempting to repair the damage.
Today I met Steve.
There's loads more remain protesters than leave. And amusingly both sides have signs up saying to toot if you support them.
And there's an empty leave means leave bus driving about.
Tory whip Gareth Johnson has resigned apparently..
The currency fluctuation are not huge but would be happy to save a little if I can.
Well the threats are out there, block the deal and end up with no Brexit, now we wouldn't want that now would we.
Can I play poker with the 4th choice substitute brexit sec?
That ^ had to be done on purpose!
The delay in seeing posts results in so much double posting of info, and confused out of sequence conversations. Why set the cache this way? Frustrating. Fine for super slow threads (which this one is unlikely to be this week).
Really? There's no posting delay that I'm aware of, there's an editing delay sometimes but it's about 15 seconds.
You know the forum pages you're viewing don't automatically refresh, yes? Can't offhand think of any forum I use which does.
Some warn you new replies have come in before you hit post but generally no, they tend not to auto refresh.
Good point.
On the subject of that note ^^
I assumed it was Photoshopped, but...
This is interesting.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-14/the-economic-damage-of-brexit-in-charts
If we ever needed any compelling arguments to convince the xenophobes, it's in that Border Control graph. Look at the middle one.
(Also, I predicted this two years ago...)
I assumed it was Photoshopped, but…
I thought it said no food no kleenex tissues, bad handwriting there. The tunndel makes mose sense than the guy writing his shopping list/to do list.
If we ever needed any compelling arguments
You know what they'd say Cougar. 2 words, Pxxxxxx Fxxx
I'm not sure the no food thing is important...let's face it the next ice age will have begun by the time some folks have got down to a reasonable BMI
Secondly this will mean less burden on the NHS as the obese will be thin....and beautiful. So we can spend the extra 350 million a week on something else.
Really? There’s no posting delay that I’m aware of, there’s an editing delay sometimes but it’s about 15 seconds.
There is sometimes a delay, not my problem if you don't experience it. It's often far more than 15 seconds.