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Really? It never made the propoganda, when it did it was being explained as a really bad idea by the architects of brexit.
Was this pre or post referendum? I don't recall any detailed discussion on various types of out prior to the referendum.
You were sleeping then. All the main Leave campaigns talked about a slow steady withdrawl with transition arrangements with the EU, keeping the benefits of the Single Market, and getting new trade deals with RoW ready to implement before we Leave.
The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want
Michael Gove
9 April 2016
Was this pre or post referendum? I don’t recall any detailed discussion on various types of out prior to the referendum.
What?!?!
Did you listen, watch or read anything about Brexit before the vote?
Was this pre or post referendum? I don’t recall any detailed discussion on various types of out prior to the referendum.
I seem to recall that the relative merits of remaining in the customs union was extensively debated during the referendum campaign
Oh... erm... hang on a minute.... no. I was getting mixed up with the entire population of Turkey moving here to claim their free house then rape your daughter
BTW I’ll never take a taxi again in the UK. One of the balatantly Brexit sectors I’m boycotting along with Weatherstones, Dyson, anything made in shefield… .
Funniest thing I've read on this thread 😂😂 wait untill your 5mls from home on a cold night in the pouring rain. I'll drive past you with a cheery wave 👌
But what makes you think I voted leave, I voted remain !! My point was the vote wasn't presented as advisory, and that the vote would be respected. I'm fully aware of the legality of it.
by saying lets all get together and have a plan to stop a no deal brexit and burn the 52% who voted for it,
And yet it's perfectly acceptable to burn the 48% who didn't. Makes you think... or perhaps it doesn't, unfortunately.
It’s a classic status quo vs unknown future thing. In the past I’ve always been up for radical change as the status quo simply isn’t working for vast numbers of people in the bottom half of society.
Except, it's not. Or, shouldn't be. I've said this all along, the "status quo" is a mistake. People want change, great, we can offer them change without going through with this brexit insanity. Reform, not Remain.
Completely disregarding the vote would shake this countries democracy to the core.
So have another referendum, then. No-one ever complained about a general election "shaking this country's democracy to the core" because we already had a vote a few years ago. That's just more leave propaganda.
If you believe in democracy, Taxi25, you need to know which of the three people want.
If you believe in representative democracy then you don't care what "the people want," you act in the country's best interests. What people want is an irrelevance, people are idiots and need protecting from themselves.
My point was the vote wasn’t presented as advisory, and that the vote would be respected.
Ie, the government lied, you mean?
Cameron said in the same breath that he'd see it through whatever the result. How's he getting on with that, remind me?
There's an interesting word there, "respected." That's not the same as "enacted" now, is it. I can readily respect someone's opinion but disagree with it.
If you believe in representative democracy then you don’t care what “the people want,” you act in the country’s best interests.
That's not true. Representatives should CARE what the people want - otherwise they wouldn't be representatives, they'd be technocrats - but they should find a path between what people say they want and what's actually going to work and be beneficial.
There’s an interesting word there, “respected.” That’s not the same as “enacted” now, is it.
I think it is, in this usage.
My point was the vote wasn’t presented as advisory, and that the vote would be respected.
The vote was, democratically, decided to be advisory only. With the associated lower level of checks and balances.
It was then, undemocratically, presented as binding.
I would say that it shakes democracy far more to be able to arbitrarily change a non binding piece of legislation to a binding item. It also shakes democracy far more to try and go a one vote and thats it approach. Thats the tool of wannabe dictators. Once democracy goes your way once shut it down.
There’s an interesting word there, “respected.” That’s not the same as “enacted” now, is it. I can readily respect someone’s opinion but disagree with it.
How would you feel if the 52% was to remain, the government "respected" that then left anyway ?
I voted leave but we lost, as things stand we're leaving the EU one way or another. My intention is to make the best of it and get on with my life. My advise to other's is to do the same, but if you prefer whinning and moaning on the internet about it, carry on for what good it'll do you.
*advice
Also, *others
if you prefer whinning and moaning on the internet about it, carry on for what good it’ll do you
Or, we keep publishing our opinions, we keep campaigning, we go on marches, we have a public debate, and we make our opinions heard. Why would I stop voicing my opinion? Democracy doesn't start and end at the ballot box.
Completely disregarding the vote would shake this countries democracy to the core.
Is this a bad thing. If we've learned nothing else about our parliamentary process, we've learned that the 2 party / confrontational politics we currently have is no longer fit for purpose. We need something to break it up and I said 2 years ago and say again now that we are screaming out for proper coalition politicians to start acting in the interests of the country as a whole, not just the shoutiest / angriest.
And yet it’s perfectly acceptable to burn the 48% who didn’t. Makes you think… or perhaps it doesn’t, unfortunately.
Again STW use of just the little snippet
The point was there are other ways and the political elite don't have yours or mine or 52 percent 48 or the whole nations interests it seems
The other point was they will ride roughshod over even what you could be loosely considered the majority vote to make their own little victory over the next MP in line whilst using the for the benefit of the country line.
I would say that it shakes democracy far more to be able to arbitrarily change a non binding piece of legislation to a binding item. It also shakes democracy far more to try and go a one vote and thats it approach. Thats the tool of wannabe dictators. Once democracy goes your way once shut it down
Bang one except the wannabe dictator it's a fully fledged one we got sinking the ship.
That’s not true. Representatives should CARE what the people want – otherwise they wouldn’t be representatives, they’d be technocrats – but they should find a path between what people say they want and what’s actually going to work and be beneficial.
Ok, point ceded, that was a poor choice of words on my part. What I mean though is that what the people think they want shouldn't be a mandate for how parliament acts. The people would love to abolish taxation I'm sure, does that make it a good idea?
How would you feel if the 52% was to remain, the government “respected” that then left anyway ?
Irrespective of any stupid referendum, if I believed it was in our best interests then I'd be all for it, if I did not then I would oppose it. 48% / 52% isn't statistically significant either way and as I said, I couldn't give a toss what "the people" think they want, I can see beyond the end of my nose and I want what's best for the country.
Again STW use of just the little snippet
Just to refer back to what I was replying to, I try not to C&P great swathes of text.
The point was there are other ways
No arguments here, that's what I've been trying to say.
This makes me think you voted out, Taxi25.
taxi25
Member
If it was just a common market in, but it’s not so I’m out. No idea about the consequences of a successful out vote but I’m prepared to find out.
Posted 2 years ago
I'm entirely happy with a representative democracy and thought the referendum was a really dumb move, Cougar. But having got into this mess via a referendum it's a possible way out of the mess. Renew the binary question but with three options "in, out, no preference" and then in the case of out three choices "May's deal, no deal, no preference"
From a Facebook conversation last night..
Me -
And the benefits of leaving are?
Them -
being independent again !! Out of all the countries who have joined, how many have prospered from in ????
How many countries have been bailed out??
How many countries work population has dropped, and being miss treated !!!
Thing is, is wat slot of people can’t understand, is that the Eu is one big consortium!!
Have s look how people are appointed to post.
Everybody is untitled to their opinion !
But the vote was to leave and in any situation if a vote is won then it stands !!!!
But now !!!
That changes !!!!
Nope that’s not right!!!
Also in the matter there’s another 56 million waiting to cross these borders in the next 6 years !!!!
So where are my kids going to live when they grow up more to the point where are they going to work ???? There’s not enough work now !!!!
Let alone for another 56 million people !!!
Me -
That isn't a benefit - that's the status quo...
What about your kids rights to work anywhere around the EU?
What are the actual tangible benefits of leaving?
Them -
if my kids do decide to work in the Eu their company will look after them !!
Simples !!!!
Benifits yo leaving is our fishing waters will be ours, we will have a say in how we export and import goods, and have control of what influx of skilled workers we have coming into our country.
It will be ruff at first, but that’s wat us British are good at if we all stick together, ( getting out of the shit, stiff upper lip and all that) we can get through a few hard months.
Me -
what if they just want to do a season in Morzine, who are the local companies likely to employ? EU citizens who need no paperwork or British, who will need visas, & plenty of paperwork?
Our fishing waters are already controlled by us - it's just the government favoured larger foreign owned vessels to the British fishing fleet, but they tend to forget about that...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../propaganda-brexit-fish-eu...At the moment we have free movement of goods throughout the EU - as an example, Nissan have a factory here, they then export to the continent. Post Brexit there'll tarifs on those vehicles or even parts that they source for their cars, this will mean costs go up - sales fall, they'll re-locate to the EU to avoid these additional costs.
At the moment the wage threshold they are setting looks like it's going to be £30,000, how many people do you know who earn that? Who's going to pick bulbs? make pasties? wash cars? (slight cliches of cheap immigrant labour jobs)
Why should almost half the country have to stick together when they didn't want this? Or we could just remain as we are? No self inflicted hardship for the sake of something we already have.
Them -
They can’t survive with out our money !!!
Once we tighten the grip they will come running !!
Me -
...
Literally no response - how much clutching at straws do you want to do!?
Just to refer back to what I was replying to, I try not to C&P great swathes of text.
Oh ok sorry
It will be ruff at first, but that’s wat us British are good at if we all stick together, ( getting out of the shit, stiff upper lip and all that) we can get through a few hard months.
I've got old mates from school who are regularly parroting this delusional, '2 world wars and a world cup' style gibberish on social media
I think they watched the Dambusters too many times. We've been sold this myth of British (but lets be honest... English) national exceptionalism for so many years 52% of us actually believed it
Depressing
Democracy: a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
So we've got the first part right, all eligible members of the state were allowed to vote in the referendum. HOWEVER there is so much more to 'government' than simply/dumbly enacting the result of that vote, hence why democracy was already being debased by even asking the question.
I would argue the correct 'democratic' response to a 1.8% majority for leave would be to say OK, a small majority are unhappy, what is an appropriate measure to take? I would have suggested diverting more funds into the NHS (red bus box ticked) and perhaps tightening up on immigration (using the existing laws we already had) to pay lip service to the immigration argument.
The best analogy I can think of is a governor on a steam train, if it detects a rise in speed, it reacts appropriately to slow the train down. A 1.8% rise in speed would elicit a proportionally small reaction. The Brexit equivalent would be a governor which detects a 1.8% rise in speed and reacts by shutting down the boiler and causing a hellish steam explosion that obliterates the locomotive...
if I believed it was in our best interests then I’d be all for it, if I did not then I would oppose it. 48% / 52% isn’t statistically significant either way and as I said, I couldn’t give a toss what “the people” think they want,
Back that brings things back to democracy. Both Conservative and Labour believe their policies are whats best for the country. A vote for the opposition would be damaging, but the loosers suck it up and look to next time. We were given a vote (shouldn't have) so the result should be respected, adhered, enacted whatever. If you don't belive that the only person not fit to vote is yourself.
Or, we keep publishing our opinions, we keep campaigning, we go on marches, we have a public debate, and we make our opinions heard. Why would I stop voicing my opinion? Democracy doesn’t start and end at the ballot box.
Of course look to the future, try and influence future governments to take us back into Europe if you think thats right. Actively try and undermine a vote thats already happened..... I doing think thats a very healthy position.
Thank you for your opinion.
Most people in the UK now have a different opinion to you.
2016 is long gone.
Democracy hasn't been frozen (although looking at parliament at the moment, you could argue that perhaps it has).
The "people" of 2019 don't want us to Leave the EU. The MPs elected in 2017 don't agree on how to Leave the EU, even if we do. Perhaps that suggests something has to change. Why does the 2016 vote mean we have to Leave the EU in a way that was slammed as "Project Fear" during the campaign back then?
Why is having another vote seen as an affront to democracy - the previous vote promised certain things, turned out they can't deliver on them. We are now in a much better place knowledge wise, surely now is the best time to vote?
Both Conservative and Labour believe their policies are whats best for the country.
Do they? Most MPs were remain, they voted for A50 because their constituents did.
We were given a vote (shouldn’t have) so the result should be respected, adhered, enacted whatever.
But as we've said - it's not that simple. The vote was to indicate that the public *wanted* to leave. In a sensible (and democratic) world that should have triggered a series of questions:
1) Can we leave without damaging the economy?
2) How much damage are we prepared to inflict to leave?
3) What sort of post-leave arrangement do we want?
4) What are our demands for the leave agreement?
5) Will there actually be any benefits afterwards?
6) How long will it take to sort all this out?
7) Can we improve our situation and address people's concerns without leaving?
8) Given the answers to all the above, do we still want to leave and if so exactly how and when?
That process should've been handled by a cross party group, and it should've taken years. Instead we got the plug pulled and May and a few mates who clearly haven't a CLUE just pressing on without telling anyone what they were planning.
Both approaches would've respected the vote, one would have been sensible, one was ****ing stupid.
Having another vote with a different question, or when the information has changed is NOT undemocratic. How can it be? How is voting undemocratic? I do however think that another vote is needed - I don't think any government can simply revoke A50 in any practical sense.
This makes me think you voted out, Taxi25.
I did initially think of voting leave but I became "Edukated", you understand the concept 😉
Do they? Most MPs were remain, they voted for A50 because their constituents did.
Sorry MG I was reffering to general politics not specifically Brexit.
I don’t think any government can simply revoke A50 in any practical sense.
A government could revoke A50, and then take all the steps you mention, before deciding what to do next. No government will do that though… hence calls for the public to have another say ASAP. Another referendum shouldn't be required at this point, it should probably come later… after the proper work has been done to present an agreed alternative to EU membership to the public… but in reality it is being grasped at as a way to just stop the process before we hit the end date. All this rushing is ridiculous, and triggering A50 without a plan was negligent in the extreme.
All this rushing is ridiculous, and triggering A50 without a plan was negligent in the extreme.
My memory might be failing, but wasn't it a case of the Eu not being willing to discuss a deal/plan untill A50 was enacted ?
My memory might be failing, but wasn’t it a case of the Eu not being willing to discuss a deal/plan untill A50 was enacted ?
kind of, but the time of triggering A50 was the only leverage we ever had, May (& corbyn) having voted remain were desperate to show they respected the 'will of the people' so & heeded the calls of the idiot brexiteers to push on as quickly as possible, despite them having no plan
A50 should never have been triggered without coming up with a properly assessed plan & fully explained to teh public what it meant
that basic error set the scene for the shambles & series of unforced errors that followed
good explainer here
https://lotsmoore.co.uk/how-auto-enrolment-shows-brexit-is-doomed/
It will be ruff at first, but that’s wat us British are good at if we all stick together, ( getting out of the shit, stiff upper lip and all that) we can get through a few hard months.
Are these the same people who phoned the police when KFC ran out of chicken?
this thread also explains a lot more abut A50
https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1082349135209160706
Why is having another vote seen as an affront to democracy
Are you an Enemy Of The People or a Nazi? It just is okay?
Dont dare question the will of the people.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact the brexit elite are worried another vote wouldnt go their way and hence want second time lucky to be final.
I did initially think of voting leave but I became “Edukated”, you understand the concept
I've never broken into your house and piled all the furniture up in a heap then left a note saying "die fetten jahre sind vorbei!". My pseudo comes from the Austrian-German film which was released as "the Edukators" in France. The film is about social injustice. The "Edukating" was about making rich people feel uncomfortable and insecure despite their wealth.
I’ve never broken into your house and piled all the furniture up in a heap then left a note saying “die fetten jahre sind vorbei!”. My pseudo comes from the Austrian-German film which was released as “the Edukators” in France. The film is about social injustice. The “Edukating” was about making rich people feel uncomfortable and insecure despite their wealth.
Ok, that explains a lot.
Both Conservative and Labour believe their policies are whats best for the country.
I'm not so sure. I think both put party before country.
Are these the same people who phoned the police when KFC ran out of chicken?
Don't know, but they are the sort of people who don't give a shit about anyone else which is pretty much how most people in teh UK are. To think it would go back to some sort of Dunkirk spirit and a time when we had real communities, empathy for each other, helped each other is just another brexiter delusion. That all finished in the 80's.
They're both ideologists before they are pragmatists. They are what Skargill was to the miners.
I’m entirely happy with a representative democracy and thought the referendum was a really dumb move, Cougar. But having got into this mess via a referendum it’s a possible way out of the mess.
Agreed on both counts. I don't want a third referendum, but sadly it may well be the only way out of this.
Renew the binary question but with three options “in, out, no preference”
Who the hell goes to vote "no preference"? It's hard enough to get people who *do* have an opinion to turn up to the polling stations.
and then in the case of out three choices “May’s deal, no deal, no preference”
Nope nope nope.
No way, no how should "no deal" be presented as something we could voluntarily choose. I've said this before, "no deal" isn't an option, it's what happens if we run out of options. No-one with a jot of integrity and brain cells actively wants this. It's like having a vote on increasing anti-terrorist policing and the three options are 1) spend more on anti-terrorism, 2) don't spend more on anti-terrorism, 3) bomb London.
We were given a vote (shouldn’t have) so the result should be respected, adhered, enacted whatever. If you don’t belive that the only person not fit to vote is yourself.
"Whatever" implies that those preceding words all mean the same thing. They do not. We can "respect" the result without just blindly crashing out of the EU. This is more page 2 stuff, do I really have to explain again what "advisory" means?
In 2016 we had a public opinion poll. The result, very very clearly showed us one thing - that we were a country divided. The way to best "respect" the result would have been to look at those results, analyse why people voted the way they did, and come up with solutions to the problems (real or perceived) that people felt they were voting for or against. If after that the conclusion was to actually leave then fair enough, but there was no due diligence here.
People voted leave for many different reasons, despite what the "we know what we voted for" brigade would have you believe. Immigration was the big one, and we have the power to shore that up right now and choose not to. Some wanted to give Cameron a bloody nose, which worked and was about the only good thing to come out of this. Some just wanted change - any change - and naively saw this as an opportunity to exact that. Some believed the big red Boris bus lie, I've heard more than one leave voter tell me that they voted thusly as they thought giving more money to the NHS was a good idea. Some were racist pensioners who wanted to bring back ounces and shillings, send them all back where they came from, and to hell with any students who want to study abroad. Some wanted blue passport covers (readily available on Amazon for a couple of quid) FFS. Some wanted to take back control of something we already have control of, make our own laws when we already do, and regain sovereignty that we never lost. Oh, and something about ****ing fish that no-one with half a brain gives a rat's ass about. Critically though, none of these things are anything to do with the EU, they're either domestic issues which are readily fixable or are just ignorant fantasies propelled by the likes of JRM and the Daily Express.
And TBH, the single biggest resolution for all of this shite would be for people in positions of power or authority to be forced to stop lying to the British public. I'd like to see the Mail and Express editors in court for inciting hatred for starters.
I’ve said this before, “no deal” isn’t an option, it’s what happens if we run out of options. No-one with a jot of integrity and brain cells actively wants this.
Of course Mrs. May repeatedly trotted out her "No deal is better than a bad deal" mantra.
I refer you to my final paragraph.
Critically though, none of these things are anything to do with the EU, they’re either domestic issues which are readily fixable or are just ignorant fantasies propelled by the likes of JRM and the Daily Express.
Which is a major part of the problem in my eyes. Not only is it not going to fixed by leaving the EU but most likely will be made worse especially under the disaster capitalism of JRM and cronies. So what will the next plan to distract people and profit be?
I’d like to see the Mail and Express editors in court for inciting hatred for starters.
For the mail dont you mean the ex-editor?
In other news, more unicorns.
The UK has given up on remaining a member of Europol after Brexit and fears a “major drop” in co-operation in fighting cross-border crime.
The Home Office has admitted Britain will lose its seat on the organisation’s management board – despite previously arguing it was “critical” that its role is “not weakened”.
In 2016 we had a public opinion poll.
Not in 99.9% of people's eyes pre vote, including leave and remain voters. The non binding referendum is something the post vote remain lobby has brought out. Anyway I'm going around in circles on this so I'll leave it for now.
The non binding referendum is something the post vote remain lobby has brought out. Anyway I’m going around in circles on this so I’ll leave it for now.
It was actually defined at the time. As with a lot of things the leave side didn't bother to read much.
For a simplistic version the referendum was to start the process off, we have, 2 1/2 years of it, so we need to have a reality check on the process - is this what you want? It's the best you are going to get!
Not in 99.9% of people’s eyes pre vote, including leave and remain voters.
I refer you to my final paragraph.
What those people think is erroneous and in any case doesn't alter the facts. Politicians and tabloid newspapers need to stop lying. (Yeah, I know, more unicorns...)
Also, that's something of a hyperbolic percentage you've got there. Got a source for that figure?
Many of the Brexiteers, Fox, Redwood ,Mogg all advocated 2 refs one whether to leave, one, once we knew the terms.
Farage famously claimed 48/52 would be unfinished business.
Of course with such a slender majority the Brexiteers would rather push ahead with disastrous brexishambles than risk another ref.
https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/963758590073843712?s=19
Not in 99.9% of people’s eyes pre vote, including leave and remain voters.
Evidence for this statistic or are you making stuff up?
People were saying prior to it that it should have been done properly. If 99.9% of people were too ignorant to know that then frankly that should be enough to invalidate the vote.
It was discussed prior to the vote and Cameron was criticised for trying to turn it into a binding one at the time he decided to. Something which was rather undemocratic.
As for it being a remain only thing. Oddly enough St Farage was very clear that a 52-48 result wouldnt be the end of things and he would continue to fight on. It was only once it turned out that way in his favour that he switched it to being final.
Only 11 days until remain would win a re-run of the 2016 Ref, even if no-one has changed their mind (just their mortality and/or voting eligibility).
Only 11 days until remain would win a re-run of the 2016 Ref, even if no-one has changed their mind (just their mortality and/or voting eligibility).
That does make an awful lot of assumptions regarding new voters.
That does make an awful lot of assumptions regarding new voters.
It does, and seems to take a pessimistic view of only counting those fairly likely to vote otherwise the crossover point would have been earlier.
TBH after a quick scan the methodology holds up, sort of sums up a lot of will of the people BS as what it is, a single snapshot in time. As the leave side well know they have less support and worse options now.
Seems that the Mayor of Ostende is unconvinced of his port and town's readiness to start accepting freight ferries and lorries from March. He seems to also suggest (not unreasonably) that if they are to spend money in upgrading the terminal, in providing security against those pesky migrants, and so on that he'll need certain guarantees from HMGov, Seaborne about the viability and solvency of the operation.
He is having a meeting next week - but I'm sure Grayling has all the answers given the 'due diligence' that has been conducted on the project and his confidence in their abilities. But does seem strange they're having a meeting to discuss the obstacles AFTER the contract's been awarded?
Still it's all been plain sailing so far, so I have no idea why i think this won't be full steam ahead with no choppy waters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46799136
He is having a meeting next week – but I’m sure Grayling has all the answers given the ‘due diligence’ that has been conducted on the project and his confidence in their abilities.
Possibly how it feels to be interviewing and dealing with these idiots
Well apart from the fact it's the UK in the hole and nobody can be bothered to come and save us
it’s the UK in the hole and nobody can be bothered to come and save us
As a member state the EU will surely help us out.
A few rebellions over the Finance Bill then. That's gonna hurt.
get ready for weasel words...... because the 'due diligence' will have been conducted on whether there's anything in the set up of Seaborne that precludes it form doing business with the government*
Mr Grayling said there were "no reasons to believe any of those involved in this business are not fit to do business with government".
as opposed to whether they are capable of actually delivering on what they are contracting to do. I mean, there's nothing that would preclude me from doing business with HMG, but I sure as **** couldn't run a freight ferry service in 3 month's time.
* and even that's a bit open, as I believe one of the directors is already under investigation by another government dept (possibly HMRC over a previous shipping company that went bust owing £1.78M in total https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/04/brexit-ferry-firm-who-are-the-old-sea-dogs-behind-venture )
A few rebellions over the Finance Bill then. That’s gonna hurt.
I read that, and thought the govt must surely be on the ropes as it's parliament vs government now.
parliament wins, seems like they are enjoying flexing their "muscles"
Yep, the Tories are selling our future to their mates whilst everyone gets their knickers in a twist about whether a policeman should be able to baton a total arsehole.
It’s not often I yearn for a bit of Prezza, but if only Anna Soubry had a tasty left jab.......
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5XTiI1e-wVc
Seems that the Mayor of Ostende is unconvinced of his port and town’s readiness to start accepting freight ferries and lorries from March. He seems to also suggest (not unreasonably) that if they are to spend money in upgrading the terminal, in providing security against those pesky migrants, and so on that he’ll need certain guarantees from HMGov, Seaborne about the viability and solvency of the operation.
Will the UK be allowed to put immigration checks at the Ostende side of the crossing? If so what will it cost?
Look A drone!! It's going to take out Heathrow and maybe more front page news instead of the failure of a government
Drones are deffinatly the new squirrels.
AS I perused the papers in the supermarket today the express had a headline about the Nhs money. It then had a sidebar about whether they could get enough nurses.
At least they are acknowledging that brexit has downsides.
Boris got a drone for Christmas delivered to his local office , he just got round to charging it to see if he could get a birds eye view of a bulldozer before laying or maybe telling a lie in front of it, or something.
Yvette Coopers finance bill amendment got through. First tine in 41 years a govt has lost the vote on its own budget.
Commentators now saying that this means no deal is dead. One can hope I guess, however I wouldn't put it past May to come up with some shenanigans.
I wouldn’t put it past May to come up with some shenanigans.
it will now be a **** up just done on the cheap
Friend is a finance director for a large company, they've got a £50m grant from the EU that will literally be pulled in March when we leave. He says the company probably won't recover from that.
Does this mean that all the no dealers will vote for may's deal for the sake of party unity?
Does this mean that all the no dealers will vote for may’s deal for the sake of party unity?
Still not enough of them to get it through, the DUP are all out on the current deal.
Commentators now saying that this means no deal is dead.
How so? Really can someone expalin how this prevents britiain crashing out on 29/3 if nothing happens before then to prevent it.
Technically nothing, logic would say that as the government said they needed the cash to prepare and now they do not have it to leave with no deal would be reckless, all bets are off as to how a cornered robot flips
It's all about painting the government even further into a corner now.
If we can get 'no deal' off the agenda then that leaves May's botched deal, or who knows, as long as it's not no deal that's good.
The only other options left are much more favorable.
I'm just getting so angry about it all. Put me in the "remainer prepared to accept the outcome of the vote" corner, but it's all just so screwed, we don't have a CLUE what we're doing, we're spunking money like a busted watermain spunks water and May's just trying to filibust her way to disaster - what's worse is no-one's doing anything worthwhile to go "hang on a mo, shouldn't we have a think about this?" Labour have had - if not an open goal - two years to ease the Tories out of government, and still we've made no progress. Now we've got the Soubry thing and somehow both sides are outraged about that - there were folks on the 5 breakfast show saying it's disgusting that she was called a Nazi, one bloke from Northampton said why weren't MPs up in arms when JRM once got abused and now the BBC are addressing every Soubry defender with "don't you think it's the same on both sides?. How in the name of the sweet baby Jesus are we going to get over this, however it pans out? Eff eff ess.
Brexit seems more technically impossible now more than ever, regardless of the 'will of the people' it's simply undeliverable.
The screws will tighten further and we'll either see an extension with a new referendum, with all the crap and caveats that brings or preferably a retraction of A50.
If the far right chavs don't like it, they are welcome to set fire to themselves in protest.
It would appear French and Brish yellow vests have one thing in common
Although a difference is the French ones hang around once the cops turn up mob handed. From the reports today our brave heroes decided to pipe down and leave the yellow vests in the bag once they realised the cops had been told to stop playing nice. Mr "you want war" apparently didnt turn up at all.
'war' only an option on Saturdays I understand...
How so? Really can someone expalin how this prevents britiain crashing out on 29/3 if nothing happens before then to prevent it.
It doesn't, MPs are very good at agreeing at what they don't want, but until they can agree on something they do want - and the difficult bit, get it enacted - then we leave by operation of Article 50.