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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Id like to think the interviewer tore them to pieces over this?

if not the press have failed utterly

It was Emma Barnet and to be fair she ripped into him pointing out that he was stating airy generalisations and opinions - 'it'll all be fine' - as fact, while providing absolutely no details whatsoever as to why or how 'it'll all be fine'

But thats what the Brexiteers have been doing since day one, isn't it?

They just keep repeating the same fictional platitudes, and the gammons keep lapping it up.

His answer to being pulled up on this was to start banging on about the BBC being a remainer conspiracy, hostile to Brexit.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 1:07 pm
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It’s a pointless and pathetic attempt to make people think things are being looked after – like THM’s mythical grown ups

We will end up back in the EU at some point. The time it takes to get to that point is directly proportional to the amount of pain it will cause.

It is all about how much pain will it take for us to swallow our over-inflated national pride and just admit this was a terrible idea from the start. Do it now and upset a few loonies a lot and a lot of duped normal folk a bit. Ask for the clock to be stopped (the EU would probably agree), then spend a bit more time 'soul-searching' before revoking A50.

Go over a cliff and the pain will be so much worse. Parliament is dysfunctional if something so obvious cannot be sorted.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 1:34 pm
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I think we can all agree that if the last 3 years have shown us anything its that our first-past-the-post, 2 party system is totally unfit for purpose in the 21st century.

On both sides, a minority of idealogical zealots are basically dictating policy to the majority, and geting away with it time after time.

May is running scared of her right wingers and the DUP yet again, and Corbyn is just ignoring the overwhelming wishes of Labour MP's, members and voters, and just happily facilitating Brexit as thats what him and Len want.

And this is democracy?


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 1:39 pm
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I agree with binners, the whole sorry mess needs dismantling and rebuilding. Sadly the referendum on voting reform was lost due to a pathetic campaign by YES and "stage management" by NO.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 1:47 pm
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During the referendum I was undecided and willing to be swayed either way by a convincing argument. No one had one so my position was status quo.

This being so I could get on board with Corbyn if he gave us the faintest idea what the actual plan is. I understand his reasons for wanting to leave but that relies on him being in power. From where I'm standing if he continues to facilitate Brexit he'll lose a huge amount of support and gain very little meaning he'll never win a election.

The plan of forcing a GE is bonkers when you are alienating the very people who gave you half a chance last time. That being the case he's a dead duck but by the time he's replaced it'll be too late.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 2:02 pm
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You weren't swayed by the benefits of border-free trade and a Europe-wide business environment?

We had business leaders queuing up to tell you why it was important.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 2:13 pm
 mrmo
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We will end up back in the EU at some point. The time it takes to get to that point is directly proportional to the amount of pain it will cause.

You assume the EU will have us back after all this? The world moves forwards, if the UK can't accept that what is its place?

I would suggest the reality is Scotland rejoining, Ireland reunifying and the rump of England and Wales....


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 2:17 pm
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The latest polling from yesterdays Observer:

If Corbyn backs Brexit, he faces electoral catastrophe

The conventional voting intention question produces a six-point Conservative lead (40% to 34%). This is bad enough for an opposition that ought to be reaping electoral dividends at a time when the government is in crisis.

However, when voters are asked how they would vote if Labour failed to resist Brexit, the Conservatives open up a 17-point lead (43% to 26%). That would be an even worse result than in Margaret Thatcher’s landslide victory in 1983, when Labour slumped to 209 seats, its worst result since the 1930s.

He's a liar, a fraud and a lifelong die-hard Brexiteer. Him and the idiots surrounding him believe that this chaos is somehow miraculously going to usher in some socialist utopia

But when it delivers the polar opposite, he'll just shrug and wander off back to the allotment, in exactly the same way that Cameron fled the scene of the crime. He's no different from him, no matter what his deluded supporters would have you believe.

He's a spineless, lying, self-serving shyster in exactly the same mould, just a red, rather than a blue one


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 2:20 pm
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You assume the EU will have us back after all this?

Yes - for a few reasons:

1. They are not indoctrinated to act against what is actually in their best interests.
2. They are more politically grown up than we are.

Sure, we may be emasculated somewhat from our previous unbelievably good deal (don't forget we have been the awkward ones for most of the last 40 years, pleading exceptions left, right and centre).

On the flip side of this is that, given the performance over the last two years, I think I'd rather be a rule-taker from Brussels than Westminster in an awful lot of areas. Being in the EU with a freshly tanned backside and a promise not to be such a naughty boy in the future would probably be the best outcome.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 2:41 pm
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We will end up back in the EU at some point.

That would require the agreement of countries that will have benefitted from Brexit. The only way to be sure of a place in the EU is not to leave. Once all the companies that based themselves in the UK to have tarif-free access to Europe with cheap well-qualified labour (despite costly logistics) have relocated to mainland Europe the leaders of the countries they're in won't want them going back to the UK. Same for the countries that pick up banking, commodoties and raw materials trading.

Getting back in will neither be quick nor easy and the UK will be behind Turkey in the queue.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 3:39 pm
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If you were a member of a club and one member, who'd always been a bit of a * anyway, loudly announced he was leaving, called you all a bunch of *s, then curled one out on the carpet before he left... would you be keen to let him back in once he'd done the rounds and realised nobody else would let him in?


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 3:45 pm
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Once all the companies that based themselves in the UK to have tarif-free access to Europe with cheap well-qualified labour (despite costly logistics) have relocated to mainland Europe the leaders of the countries they’re in won’t want them going back to the UK. Same for the countries that pick up banking, commodoties and raw materials trading.

If we were to be readmitted it would be under the vanilla rules and there would be no benefit to re-relocating those businesses back to Britain. The deals with have are like virginity, once we lose them we won't ever have them back, we'll be just another member under the same rules as every other member.

Which is why leaving can't be seen as a 'let's see what it's like / can't be worse than what we have' experiment, and if we don't like it we just go back. Which in turn is why in my mind the only question worth answering right now is "are you sure you want to do this?"


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 3:52 pm
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To be fair, they'd probably make just as big a cock up re-joining as they have of leaving


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 4:27 pm
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the UK will be behind Turkey in the queue.

There is no "queue".


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 4:33 pm
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I feel I should clarify my point.

What I was NOT doing was saying that we would end up back exactly where we had been eventually and it would just be painful in the interim.

I was trying to get my point across that we would end up reapplying and probably being accepted eventually and all of our preferential side-deals would no longer exist.

Even if we did end up exactly where we were before, the intervening years of pain would not be worth it (by definition).

So the only solution is to take a hit on our vastly over-inflated 'pride' (whatever that is supposed to mean, perhaps 'ego' would be a better term) and get this nonsense stopped ASAP.

My conscience is entirely clear on this matter since I have never accepted, or will accept the result in June 2016.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 4:41 pm
 DrJ
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If we were to be readmitted it would be under the vanilla rules

Which include Euro membership 🙁


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:09 pm
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If we were to be readmitted it would be under the vanilla rules

Which include A COMMITMENT TO EVENTUAL Euro membership 🙁


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:11 pm
 mrmo
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vanilla rules would be a good thing, the UK should stop with the exceptionalism and accept it is a european country and start behaving as such.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:19 pm
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vanilla rules would be a good thing, the UK should stop with the exceptionalism and accept it is a european country

You mean like all the other countries wanting special exceptions or dodging the bits they dont like?
Would we get the EU parliament decamping here for no good reason other than throwing a hissy fit if they didnt?


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:33 pm
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I see the yellow vest guys have got it in for Soubry

https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/1082304571580534786?s=19


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:47 pm
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When is enough going to be enough? When someone's hurt? Killed?

Someone has a very short memory.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:58 pm
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If you don't think there's a queue then you need another word for waiting in line, Scotroutes. Five in the line, three already negotiating.

Turkey (applied on 14 April 1987), Macedonia (applied on 22 March 2004), Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations.

Still, hasn't happened yet.

Edit: I looked at Kimber's link, I particularly liked the line "You ain't even ****ing British". What I don't understand is why he wasn't arrested for racism and his phone taken as evidence. It would appear French and Brish yellow vests have one thing in common - some ignorant racist dicks among their ranks.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 5:59 pm
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They were actually acusing Soubry of being a nazi

Clearly they're not doing irony, then?

The bottom line is that Brexit has emboldened far right thugs and given a tacit nod, through the (blatently racist) nature of the campaign, to some genuinelly nasty bastards! And I don't just mean Iain Duncan Smith


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:03 pm
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Should democracy be thrown under the **** bus if it means the country doesn’t sink?

Democracy was thrown under the bus a long time ago, perhaps as long ago as when Call-me-Dave casually asked a seemingly simple yet ill-defined question, with extremely complicated ramifications, of an ignorant (largely, and I include myself in that), easily led population.

Or perhaps it was thrown under the bus the day we allowed politicians to blatantly lie about the issues, or use dodgy campaign finance, or literally break electoral law, all without any consequence.

Or maybe when a sitting government was called into contempt of parliament? Or when the Prime Minister pulled a vote just because she knew she was going to lose?

Democracy has been well and truly thrown under the bus already, calling another referendum or even just calling thw whole thing off would just be a first step in scraping Democracy's pulped remains out from inbetween the tread of the bus's tyres...


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:35 pm
 AD
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'You ain't even ****ing British'. Classy. And wearing a yellow vest just like the French...


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:40 pm
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Turkey (applied on 14 April 1987), Macedonia (applied on 22 March 2004), Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations.

Czech Republic - didn't even exist in 1992 and became a member of the EU in 2004. That's not a queue, that's a list.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:44 pm
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What I find worrying is if we don't leave (and I hope we don't), is the affect its going to have on the racists like the guy in the video.
Brexit effectively emboldened the racists, they now think that they are right, and 52% of the country agree with them.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:52 pm
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is the affect its going to have on the racists like the guy in the video.

If they don't like they can leave


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:54 pm
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Nice to see HSBC doing more definatley not about brexit ads, can you buy a vegan sausage roll with their banking?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46782759


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:57 pm
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‘You ain’t even **** British’. Classy. And wearing a yellow vest just like the French…

Tiny little fella, ain't he?


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 6:59 pm
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If we don't leave it will be because less than 50% now agree with maggots like that. Which would be a good thing.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:15 pm
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I see the yellow vest guys have got it in for Soubry

thats one of those moments you hope someone will just knock the prick clean out....****ing war


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:19 pm
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is confused also reading an article whereby labour are now backing a cross party means to stop no deal which seems odd

Morgan said that it was time for parliament to create a mechanism to stop no deal by default. “Many of us have been clear that parliament will not allow a no-deal situation to unfold,

ok so blah blah blah people voted to leave (by whatever nefarious info they were supplied)
option 1 was leave
option 2 was remain

option 1 was the winner

how come then parliament will now stop the will of the people rather than holding a second referendum and saying do you still want to leave or do you want to remain

is it that if people vote again to leave they would be properly shafted?

if im being honest i either want to leave or remain...none of this halfway house shit


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:40 pm
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That’s not a queue, that’s a list.

Bit like a ski lift queue in France...


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:49 pm
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It's because none of them have the will, or the guts, to actually GOVERN, i.e. take the slim result of an advisory referendum as a signal to make some small changes in order to satisfy the tiny majority that are unhappy.

Ripping up the train tracks and setting fire to the station in the face of 1.8% dissatisfaction is not governance and therefore by definition not really democracy


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:49 pm
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thats one of those moments you hope someone will just knock the prick clean out….**** war

That's what he wants - to shout 'Help! I'm being repressed!' on his Youtube channel and get sympathy donations.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:54 pm
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Tiny little fella, ain’t he?

Another thick little tosser who has done bugger all with his life and wants to blame anyone, anyone else for the fact that he is a thick little tosser who has done bugger all with his life.

I don’t give a shit what he thinks.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:58 pm
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how come then parliament will now stop the will of the people rather than holding a second referendum and saying do you still want to leave or do you want to remain

Simple, in 2 1/2 years nobody has come up with a plan to leave that is acceptable to more than 3 people.

if im being honest i either want to leave or remain…none of this halfway house shit

How does sir want to leave?


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 7:59 pm
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How does sir want to leave?

either way will suit either on a plane somewhere warm or off a cliff edge and go down with the ship....looks like they're the options, its starting to look more favorable to take a chance on it because there are no other offers on the table.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:10 pm
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The cross party letter is a rump of the non-mental MP’s from both parties, neither of which have any confidence in their hopeless ‘leaderships’ saying to them ‘can we stop this lunacy please? Before it’s too late’

My (Labour remainer) MP is one of them, and he’s been openly campaigning for a second referendum for ages now.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:36 pm
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As above, the really bad thing is how this whole shitshow has empowered the racists, my gf has been on the receiving end of this being from Hong Kong originally, as she's noticed a definite uptick is racist arseholery since the referendum, watching their reaction to her voice is hilarious, as she has a rather plummy north London accent, having lived here since she was 4...


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:42 pm
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The cross party letter is a rump of the non-mental MP’s from both parties, neither of which have any confidence in their hopeless ‘leaderships’ saying to them ‘can we stop this lunacy please? Before it’s too late’

My (Labour remainer) MP is one of them, and he’s been openly campaigning for a second referendum for ages now.

and i get this but it looks like the non mentalists are pitching for some halfway house of never ending limbo


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:44 pm
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watching their reaction to her voice is hilarious, as she has a rather plummy north London accent, having lived here since she was 4…

When in Oz I did like to point out I was a ****ing immigrant at times, that did confuse them a lot.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:45 pm
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I love that shouty man there is offering a war... every saturday. Yeah well he can't do a war on sunday, he's bowling with his mates. And everyone's pretty knackered on monday after work, you know?

Edukator

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If you don’t think there’s a queue then you need another word for waiting in line, Scotroutes. Five in the line, three already negotiating.

Nobody is "waiting in line". I was trying to form a bit more of an argument for this but actually all I have, and all I need, is "they just aren't".


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:45 pm
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and i get this but it looks like the non mentalists are pitching for some halfway house of never ending limbo

We may have to do this step by step, first rule out no deal, then look at deals again. Throwing toys out of the pram sums up how we got here in the first place.
Leaving because you are bored is as bad as voting leave because of the Nigerian nurse.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:47 pm
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I like the "halfway house of never ending limbo" line.

We have years of shifting sands whether we leave without a deal, or with a transition period… those that think that "no deal" means that companies and people can suddenly plan with extra certainty have spent too long listening to idiots… the terms on which we trade with most countries in the world will keep changing again and again after we rip up our EU membership and the thousands of agreements it has with third countries… we'll be rushing to put in place temporary arrangements, and then constantly adapting them as we move towards more permanent ones. No certainty ahead for a great many years. Unless we cancel A50.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 8:59 pm
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Have we done Brompton's wise splashing of cash…?

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/brompton-bike-parts-hard-brexit


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 9:02 pm
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How does sir want to leave?

And there's the rub

Leavers very clear they want to leave the EU those with a basic grasp of reality know that we'll want to negotiate a new deal with them of some form & all deals end up ceding/pooling some sovereignty in exchange for trade & other benefits.
Problem is that the Brexiteers are still doubling down on this myth of a 'clean' WTO brexit

The smarter Brexiters know this is bollox

The editor of LeaveEU shares his frustration with his fellow Brexiters..

https://twitter.com/PeteNorth303/status/1082303737975193601?s=19


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 9:15 pm
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We may have to do this step by step,

it was you who said after 2.5 years we were still getting nowhere ?

so id put it to you another way the situation we find ourselves in under the current leadership means we are .....having to go step by step , do i think this is to self serve governemnt , absolutely neither dare budge in the house of Jenga because they know shits going to come crashing down and neither even though they know anything with 2 braincells will never in a million years give them credibility they plough on regardless .

ruling out no deal? can that be an option, the people voted for it, the argument they have been using all along is this will spell diasaster for the democratic process so you have to honour it , but we know this is just self serving rhetoric??

however by saying lets all get together and have a plan to stop a no deal brexit and burn the 52% who voted for it, it should be as easy to say lets burn the 52% and not leave or lets burn the whole, thing and have a rerun??

if we actually had a leadership to make decisions rather than what ifs and self serving i think would eliminate the need altogether for the step by step carrot dangling


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 9:24 pm
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ruling out no deal? can that be an option, the people voted for it, the argument they have been using all along is this will spell diasaster for the democratic process so you have to honour it , but we know this is just self serving rhetoric??

If it wasn't for the madness of our pm everyone would probably agree no deal is suicide, should have been ruled out on day 1.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 9:37 pm
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I still think as I've said before, the idiots need to reach critical mass before we'll see any governance.

That means May's deal needs to be kicked out so we then face a decision between falling off the cliff, or a retraction of a50.

No extensions, no new referendums.
Just cold hard reality.


 
Posted : 07/01/2019 9:50 pm
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Just watched “Brexit an uncivil war”

How accurate is the info on the targeted adverts? From my understanding I would never have seen any as I’m not in their “swayable” minority.

If the Trump campaign was run in the same way it makes a lot of sense.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 12:11 am
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Vote Leave released some of the adverts after the vote (the ones used in the film were actual ads) and the amount spent, but the other linked campaigns (Leave.EU, BeLeave, DUP, and many others) did not, so assume the spend and scale of the advertising was far larger than the known billion ads.

The fact that the football scam one, the polar bear one, and the (not in film IIRC) bull fighting one have not since become "famous" is a good guide to why targeted political advertising is so dangerous … must people have no idea what others have seen and are voting based on. How to you respond to messaging if you haven't seen it? Would you bother trying to reassure your relatives that the plight of polar bears and bulls is not related to our membership of the EU in any way? Why would you think that was part of the campaign messaging if you never see the ads?


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 12:14 am
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mickmcd

ruling out no deal? can that be an option, the people voted for it, the argument they have been using all along is this will spell diasaster for the democratic process so you have to honour it ,

Nobody voted for no deal.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 12:22 am
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Nobody voted for no deal

You know what....your actually right

Now I'm completely puzzled how we ended up here ah was it was no deal is better than a Shite deal


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 2:17 am
 nofx
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In an in. The brexiteers go on about "foreigners dictating " & yet the Tories bunged a billion quid bribe to the dup. Ireland's a different country. I didn't believe the big red bus. I don't believe the elite. The instigaters of brexit have now run off. Rees mogg has put his money abroad. There's going to be little or no benefit from brexit won't be seen for 50 years. Thanks for buggering up my kids future brexiteers 😠


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 2:27 am
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Just for you NOFX...

The human existence
Is failing resistance
Essential the future
Written off the odds are
Astronomically against us
Only moron and genius
Would fight a losing battle
Against the super ego
When giving in is so damn comforting

And so we go on with our lives
We know the truth but prefer lies
Lies are simple simple is bliss
Why go against tradition when we can
Admit defeat live in decline
Be the victim of our own design
The status quo built on spec
Why would anyone stick out their neck?

Fellow members of club "We've Got Ours"
I'd like to introduce you to our host
He's got his, and I've got mine
Meet the decline


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 2:34 am
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The brexiteers go on about “foreigners dictating ” & yet the Tories bunged a billion quid bribe to the dup. Ireland’s a different country.

Er, DUP are from NORTHERN IRELAND, thats the one that's part of the UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND not the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND.

They send elected representatives to Westminster just like the Welsh ad Scottish.

HTH


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 3:44 am
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Nobody voted for no deal.

And nobody voted for any kind of deal either. One just didn't exist, they voted to leave the EU. How never came into it. At least according to most people I've spoken to who voted leave.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 8:36 am
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If it wasn’t for the madness of our pm everyone would probably agree no deal is suicide, should have been ruled out on day 1

Yes it should. It would have been an even wiser move now and avoided all the cost and pretense around preparing for no deal (i.e. 5,000 fridges).

If you took the politics out of it this would have been done, in fact an independent body should have been in charge of getting deal, assessing impacts and then offering it back to parliament to vote on but we know it doesn't work like that.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:16 am
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80 days to go. Still waiting for news of all the tremendous trade deals that little Liam Fox has been busy rushing around the world and lining up, to enable all that lovely money to start flooding into the U.K. after the drawbridge is pulled up...


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:20 am
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Nobody voted for no deal.

If we end with a no deal brexit then that is exactly what the 52% voted for


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:45 am
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Why would you think that was part of the campaign messaging if you never see the ads?

Plus with targeted messages you can promise contradictory things to different groups.
Although admittedly the brexit lot did this in public as well.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:48 am
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Nobody voted to be told what to do by the WTO.
What people DID vote for they aren't getting.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:55 am
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If we end with a no deal brexit then that is exactly what the 52% voted for

For some maybe, but folk voted for all sorts of things. Given that we were being promised that we could have our cake and eat it and how it was going to be the "easiest negotiation in history", I suspect that most folk voted for cake.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:57 am
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Nobody voted to be told what to do by the WTO.

Unless that's where we end up, in which case, again, its exactly what the 52% voted for.

For some maybe, but folk voted for all sorts of things.

It may not be what they wanted or what they thought they were voting for but it will be what they actually did vote for


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:00 am
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Have we done Brompton’s wise splashing of cash…?

Some idiot tory MP was trying to spin the sudden stockpiling of parts in case of a hard Brexit as 'economic growth'. Like it was a good thing!

Just reinforcing what has become apparent for a long time. That the people leading the charge out of Europe are actually totally economically illiterate, and have no concept of how the 21st century globalised economy functions.

They're take on it seems to be that more economic activity (in people stockpiling stuff) is a boom to the economy. No, its because they're desperately trying to avert an economic catastrophe - one that you've totally unneccessarily brought about - you total ****ing half-wit!!!


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:03 am
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if we actually had a leadership to make decisions...

...they would decide that a slim majority in an advisory referendum is no grounds for such a massive switch in our relationship with Europe.

Nobody voted for no deal.

I think that's exactly what most Brexiters were voting for.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:10 am
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I think that’s exactly what most Brexiters were voting for.

Really? It never made the propoganda, when it did it was being explained as a really bad idea by the architects of brexit. Even now it has very low support but lots of coverage due to the erg etc.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:12 am
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Support for no deal is still quite high, people just think it will all be fine.
Most of it probably will, the government will just throw £bns more at it & we'll muddle through (a few chemo patients & diabetics may fall by the wayside), with austerity grinding down the poorest extended for a few decades as a result.

Health sec Matt Hancock on newsnight yesterday admitting he'd spent £10m on fridges we may never need in event of no deal, fortunately the NHS can easily afford it🙄

they voted to leave the EU. How never came into it.

And there's the problem, they voted for something insanely complex without wondering how it would work in practice


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:18 am
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Guardian today reporting bolsover nwants to leave more now than ever.

Most of it probably will, the government will just throw £bns

Where does this money just keep coming from


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:43 am
 dazh
Posts: 13385
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Support for no deal is still quite high, people just think it will all be fine.
Most of it probably will

The trouble is this issue is so polarised that no one can see it from the other side. It's a classic status quo vs unknown future thing. In the past I've always been up for radical change as the status quo simply isn't working for vast numbers of people in the bottom half of society. The trouble with this though is that it's being led and fuelled by people who I'm completely opposed to. Strangely I'm almost looking forward to a no deal just to see what will happen out of curiosity. Either way though we are f*****.

And if we want a vision of the future of where this could go, have a look at Germany. One way or the other things are going to get very messy.

Where does this money just keep coming from

The same place which pays for wars and weapons when they are needed. This is the problem. There's money for shit like this, but not for things that actually help normal people.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:49 am
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I am sure that a large part of the population thinks that the government can just print money and it will not impact the country. That's the magic money tree.

Need more money for the NHS? Why not just print more and use that?


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:53 am
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I think this thread tells you what's happening in the UK now. There was a debate initially and some leavers even managed a few lines of justification. The leavers and leave apologists soon either made fools of themselves or events made fools off them. Their predicitions were so wide of what hapened it became embarrassing. People I'd quite liked made comments that woudl quickly haunt them. "leave winning by a small margin would be the best result" from someone who seemed otherwise to have a remainer profile and years of reasonable psoting on political issues. How do you come back to the debate after a comment like that? They don't, they hide in their entrenched positions and leave the thread/entire forum alone.

So who's left from the flurry of posting pre-Brexit, between Brexit and the election, post election... ? People who've been proved right and whose opinions and previous claims aren't an embarrassment to them. The foreigners, the expats, the researchers, the small business people, the Guardian readers, the teachers (if they haven't been banned).

Just now and then a leaver pokes his head up to be shot at (a social worker of some kind with a sense of immunity to economic events a short while back).

So in a place where people can air their views without fear the remain arguments hold sway and are visible. But in the real world? It's the leave bullies and thugs who are in charge. A guy I know in the UK is a small businessman and vocal remainer. He got a lot of "Bollox to Brexit" stickers. However, even his own son (an equally enthusiatic remainer) refused to put one his car because he didn't want he thing keyed, kicked, smashed... .

The bullies are in charge in real UK.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:54 am
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…they would decide that a slim majority in an advisory referendum

The referendum was never advisory. It was put forward as a straight choice in or out, with parliament overwhelmingly voting to hold it. There might not be a strict legal obligation to abide by the result but there's a massive political obligation to. Completely disregarding the vote would shake this countries democracy to the core.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 10:58 am
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The referendum was never advisory.

Yes it was.
Sorry but you cant simply make this sort of shit up. Go and look at the law.
If it had been done as legally binding (which would have been hard to do but lets move on from that) then the likelihood of it being done as a simple majority is pretty minimal.
In addition there would have been better legal protection against the illegal campaign practices.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 11:05 am
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Also, because it was advisory, lots of measures were left out of the referendum bill on the basis of cost. Parliament allowed the bill to pass without strengthening it because is was advisory.

The bullies are in charge in real UK.

If you're viewing the UK through media and social media, I can see why you'd think this. Let me reassure you that here on the ground, Brits are still as civil as ever 99.9% of the time. There is not a feeling of "bullies" being in charge here, even though some bullies are very vocally in support of our current political direction.


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 11:09 am
Posts: 18589
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So would not holding a second vote now the lies and illegal financing of the leave campaign are known, and three options are concrete rather than vague promise about the easiest deal ever.

May's deal
leave without a deal
Remain

Those options were never covered by the original referendum. If you believe in democracy, Taxi25, you need to know which of the three people want.

And it was advisory, read the first 150 pages of this thread and you'll find that's what STWers understood as they went into the vote hense the dumbass comnents from some remainers to the effect it would be a good wake-up call if leave won by a small margin. It was only after the referendum when Cameron abdicated and Corbyn got behind Brexit that people relaised it was being taken (too) seriously. The rabid foreign-controlled media leading the campaign to make "advisory" binding.

BTW I'll never take a taxi again in the UK. One of the balatantly Brexit sectors I'm boycotting along with Weatherstones, Dyson, anything made in shefield... .


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 11:11 am
Posts: 34476
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Completely disregarding the vote would shake this countries democracy to the core.

It already left one MP murdered, and empowered the racist thugs in yellow vests

brexit has already let that cat out of the bag

.

& the vote has not been disregarded, its dominated government for the last 2.5 years, virtually everything else has been put on pause, the government have had to hire 20,000 civil servants since the ref & created a new office of State, weve spent £4bn? (£10mn just of fridges FFS!)

that delivering the impossible dreams sold by the right wing press & the brexiteers turns out to be ....... impossible should be a lesson to the voters not to put your faith in the likes of Farage, Johnson or Mogg- they had no plan to make it work & theyve failed the Leavers utterly


 
Posted : 08/01/2019 11:12 am
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