Thanks for commenting on the result of my failing eyesight so classily - a downside of maturity I'm afraid! ! Yes the typing is bad...accepted, but the screen is too small too. 😉
You play the melody, the rest can carry on making sense of what is happening and preparing for the consequences. Your choice.
BTW, I like the way that you were able to falsify my points specifically, Bravo!
Its worse than that ThM, I was blatant accusing you of being an alt Jamby login 😆 and to be accurate the [i]typing[/i] is fine, it's the [i]spelling [/i]that's shite 😉
I see you missed a stout defence of the brexiteers promises too (if you're playing that game).
And which points? The point I was making is like Scotland and the U.K., we've not left Europe yet.... hence predictions are still that, predictions...
Must admit i am with IGM just sitting back and laughing at the whole * up - i no longer give a *, karma is/will deliver its natural justice.
I no longer engage in debate in my local pub, i just now point out the obvious and wander off.
I used to be a kind of socialist, but the working poor/ daily mail pensioners who voted need some "hard rain"
My family/business bunker is nearly finished- and the door will be shut...
Not taken a look at this thread for awhile - was hoping there wasn't the same few Remoaners scaring/winding each other up as previously, and some interesting points of debates were being discussed.
But sadly it's as daft and predictable as before.
Mefty called it right.
Its because the brexshitters fantasies are now being shown to be just that , that we don't see them on here anymore.
Metalhuty 😉 wold luv to staye nd ply but tnneiss beckonns instaed
Nae problem Andy, er, THM 😆
Blind faith is all you need to suceed, just look at history we won WW1 only cost a million dead?
Thatchers industrial stategy only cost a couple of million job's
The real question is how much will brexit cost (not the divorce bill) in jobs and livelihoods?
The bottom end of society always pays the bill and never gets the dividend.
Seems to me that all the brexies are flouncing off as reality hits home....
It's not just Brexies though, all the Tory supporters, who have been for a decade telling us that they represent the party of fiscal responsibility are now the party of financial self harm & political ineptitude.
The Tories own Brexit, from start to finish.
So us remoaners reminding them just how foolish Cameron, Osborne, Johnson, Davis, and of course strong & stable May have been shown to be is best silenced.
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that the Brexiteers of STW are keeping a low profile....
Maybe, just maybe, some sort of common sense will prevail & we can rescue something viable from those whole fing debacle.....
As i have said before the Tory party is dying out and Brexit is the last throes, younger back bench Tories are past themselves with despair and most of them are remainers
Kimbers - making this a party/one party issue is just another example of how remoaners are doing themselves no favours
Indeed THM, but it must be admitted that it was the Tories who held the referendum.
It is, however a problem that can only be resolved by cross party consensus, as the result showed it was a very mixed demographic that voted both yes & no,
Denying otherwise is an attempt to whitewash & ignore the strife in the UK & to paint the Tories as the villains of the whole price. A stick to beat them with as it were..
Well the Tories always do themselves in over EU, so that is a given.
I don't blame them for calling a referendum nor do I blame them for "officially" campaigning to remain. I just wish they/we had done a better job at explain why the deal we had was much, much better than the alternatives (either way)
Yes, the UK is very spilt on the issue, that is another given, and it is reflected in the fact that the two major parries are also riven apart here too. It's a very divisive issue not helped though by people simply trying to bullly others into submission/staying away from threads like this.
tjagain - Membermefty / sbob
All the predictions that we remainers said would come true and the leavers said were nonsense - guess what - its all coming true.
No it isn't.
Certainly not to the degree that people suggested.
Not yet...
mooman - MemberNot taken a look at this thread for awhile - was hoping there wasn't the same few Remoaners scaring/winding each other up as previously, and some interesting points of debates were being discussed.
😆
The last time I tried to illicit some constructive criticism of the EU on this thread, I got four words.
The protagonists are far more interested in simply winning the argument.
I don't blame [the Tories] for calling a referendum
Well, maybe you should, since without the referendum - totally unnecessary and designed only to spike the guns of the right wing of the party - we would not be in this shit.
Well the Tories always do themselves in over EU, so that is a given.
And now they've done in the rest of us too.
"we got it right" ....let's see if the BoE has the same false sense of self confidence....
6. In that context, I would like to discuss two main points. The first is backward-looking, and relates to the economy's recent marked outperformance compared to expectations just after the Brexit vote.........I’ll start with the first of those points: the economy’s recent – and welcome – resilience. In the August 2016 IR, just after the Brexit vote, the MPC forecast that the economy would slow markedly, with quarterly growth close to zero in H2 2016 and early 2017. The BoE was not alone in expecting weaker growth: the IMF and OECD made similar forecasts, and in general the consensus was slightly gloomier than the BoE (see figure 1)1. [b]In practice, growth has remained solid. Indeed, on the current vintage of the ONS data, quarterly GDP growth in H2 2016 was slightly stronger than H1. Compared to the BoE’s forecasts from last August, the economy’s outperformance in H2 2016 was spread widely across consumer spending, housing and business investment. [/b]Exports and imports both did better than expected, but net trade overall was less supportive than forecast last August (see figure 2). In terms of contributions to QoQ GDP growth in H2 2016, the upside in business and housing investment combined was worth slightly more than the upside in consumer spending. Real wages turned out slightly softer than expected, with slightly higher inflation and lower pay growth than forecast. Household savings have fallen more than expected.
Still want to claim that it a load of bollocks MH?
(Rog not Andy by the way!!)
The last time I tried to illicit some constructive criticism of the EU on this threa
Let's hear it. Genuinely.
TBH I've heard little that actually stands up to scrutiny.
I've heard a lot of made-up & wishful thinking mind..
Little of which is based on fact & been born out by events.
sbob - Member
tjagain - Member
mefty / sbobAll the predictions that we remainers said would come true and the leavers said were nonsense - guess what - its all coming true.
No it isn't.
Certainly not to the degree that people suggested.
Not yet...
Errmmm - yes it is and you may notice we haven't actually left yet. But the flight of financial services has started, the £ has dropped, the ludicrous impossibility of the claims the leavers made are being exposed etc etc - and this is only the beggining.
The problem is TMH the markets maybe doing well but the man on the street isn't fairing so well.
Value of the £ down, prices up, wages stagnating.
It's a select few who can look at the market & go "yep, it's all good...."
It's based/centred around a fundamentally flawed concept - a fixed exchange rate across a region that does not fulfil the criteria for such a structure. Flawed in design and execution.
Hence we HAD a food deal. Access to the good bits but nothing to do with the nonsense bits.
Edukator - Reformed TrollWhat they fail to say in that article, Kimbers, is that people who currently fly via the UK to other European destinations will need a passport rather than just an ID card. That means there will be more demand on routes through European hubs rather than the UK.
Know a lot of international travellers without passports Edukator?
😆
I think the Euro could have worked, to an extent it seems to be recovering as well..
However, I do think the EU grew faster than it should have & moved to include countries who should not have been allowed to join.
A 2 tier system would have been better with progression to full membership upon achieving certain requirements.
Continental peace & unity is a wonderful concept - it's just not been very well executed. Well, the peace has bit the unity has been a struggle at times..
Good job no one is saying that - have a look at the BoE extract, I even highlighted the important bits too.
Nothing to do with the markets - thats QE (stealing) not Brexshit
Edit, no the euro was flawed in design and hence from the start.
tjagain - MemberErrmmm - yes it is
Rubbish.
The economy hasn't come anywhere close to taking the hit that was predicted.
You know this.
I read it - but you will hear the Brexit brigade trumpeting its all going to be ok despite a slew of data suggesting otherwise. That's my point. There's NO data suggesting it's going all swimmingly - quite the opposite.
Plus there doesn't seem to be a sector yet who aren't making plans to get out of the UK & find a base in the EU.
The cake & eat idea is proving to total BS.
How many more retractions can we expect next week? How many more Brexit promises are going to be broken?
It's a bloody omnishambles!
sbob...
Going on your hols this year?
Don't expect much for your £ if you're after a €....
£1 = 0.88c.
I call that pretty fing bad....
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/21/britons-travelling-to-europe-offered-just-88-euro-cents-to-the-pound ]Graun[/url]
No it's not "quite the opposite" - quite the contrary and you/we should be brave enough to admit it.
sbob, been here long???
That analysis of UK growth ignore previous patterns and forgets that the Brexit vote was in June and the UK is stil in the EU. Growth is often slower in the first half than the second half.
Reactions to events are never immediate because budgets are voted and commitments made. H2 2017 is the first period for which companies will have factored in a posible/probable Brexit and planned accordingly.
Businesses are also enjoying the competitive devaluation export honeymoon when they are running on stocks of materials paid for with a strong currency whilst recieving payments in Euros that are worth more. The honeymoon will be over by 2018 and th ehigher costof imorts will be biting at the same time as the divorce needs paying for (unless Relate reconcile EU and UK).
We'll renew the GDP debate in 2018, THM.
mrlebowski - Membersbob...
Going on your hols this year?
Don't expect much for your £ if you're after a €....
£1 = 0.88c.
I'll pay you 90c. 😉
We're once again the sick man of Europe.
ED, The economy is slowing now for many factors - some Brexshit, some not. But blaming every bad data point on Brexshit is as bad as Brexhsitters blaming every bad thing on the EU. Both are Bllx.
Don't follow the Brexshiteers, thats embarasing. Better to stick to the facts.
Sick man of Europe - Simply not true.
Migrants and Greece are the two that spring to mind.
Greece should never have been in the Euro, tax base, fiddling etc. and the failure to come up with a permanent solution. Currently it is simply stop gap after stop gap.
As for Migration, it is a mess and not really sure what the answer is, it won't get better though. If the climate models are to be believed it is going to get far worse as people flee the uninhabitable ( i.e. unfarmable) areas looking for food, work, etc.
Generally though standardisation, cross border trade and commerce, travel, are its pluses.
The idea that running away is going to help solve the UKs problems is laughable, the UKs problems are the UKs, they were created here and Brexit simply gives the idiots more power.
THM from your extract consumer spending holding up, savings going down. Wages softer than expected.
So what happens when the savings run out?
Don't follow the Brexshiteers, thats embarasing. Better to stick to the facts.
I'd go along with that,
Brexit was just more fuel for the fire,
Spectacularly poorly timed..
I'll pay you 90c.
I'm good thanks, ignoring your facetiousness...
I went to Canada where th £ has some semblance of value!
last year we were the fastest growing economy in the G7. this year we're the slowest equal with italy.
no, the slowdown is not as bad as predicted by many, but then the eurozone's results are also a lot better than expected, so is it any wonder that we're doing better than we'd thought when our largest trading partner is doing better than we'd thought?
our economic performance is in spite of brexit, not because of it. the strength of consumer spending is a good indicator of the public sticking it's collective fingers in it's ears and singing la-la-la-la while running up even bigger debts. personally i just hope none of my friends and family get caught out when the music stops.
as for the bullying THM, maybe just use the report post button if you think there's a problem?
Know a lot of international travellers without passports Edukator?
Yes, about 80% of Shengen Euopeans who holiday in a foreign country do so in a country when they don't need a passport. So that's the vast majority of people I know.
Continental peace & unity is a wonderful concept - it's just not been very well executed. Well, the peace has bit the unity has been a struggle at times..
Are you new here or what? Nobody cares about that shit - the economy is the only thing that matters.
Long enough DrJ to know that I'm probably the only one who'll admit to being a Liberal..
😉
Edukator - Reformed TrollYes, about 80% of Shengen Europeans who holiday in a foreign country do so in a country when they don't need a passport. So that's the vast majority of people I know.
The vast majority of people you know don't hold a passport?
Bollocks. 😆
Do you have a passport? 😕
Exception to the rule are we? 😐
Why would I lie, sbob? The majority of French poeple don't have a passport that's a stistical reality, and where I live in the SW the need or desire to hold a passport is low. People holiday locally or in Spain. Even when they fly it's to the French DomTom.
I have a passport but I've never travelled to anywhere I've needed it (oops I forgot Moroco). That's about to change, if Brexit goes ahead I'll need one to visit the place I was born.
So yes, I'm an exception to the rule, I have a passport but most French people don't and the vast majority of people I know don't.
no, the slowdown is not as bad as predicted by many, but then the eurozone's results are also a lot better than expected, so is it any wonder that we're doing better than we'd thought when our largest trading partner is doing better than we'd thought?
That's the best comment this thread has had for weeks.
Oh, apart from this one…
Businesses are also enjoying the competitive devaluation export honeymoon when they are running on stocks of materials paid for with a strong currency whilst recieving payments in Euros that are worth more.
Keep on thinking and informing chaps…
I will sum up this 800 page thread for y'all.
We'll be skint, but there will be less darkies.
