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and the rise of the far right as a result.....It would be pretty careless of Remain to lose if the opposition only had one argument, surely they have a counter ?
Sorry are you worried about rabble rousing racists or pleased with them? You seem to use them to attack the EU and then be not worried if your group use their methods to get what you want
Its hard to see what principle you are applying to the world.
Personally for me the IN campaign has made me want to leave and the Leave campaign has made me want to stay in. The net effect has been to remind me what a usuless bunch of knobs we are almost governed by.
That hits the nail on the head perfectly for me!
For those who missed the Vote Leave Broadcast last night....
I wish Tim Martin would clear off now too with his mullet and constant £350 million chirping.
I was an brexiter til the campaign started. I think I'm more the Labour remain and reform now.
Don't believe remain 'have won the economic argument'
I wonder if this will all carry on til next G.E? Calls for another vote etc
Jambas, perhaps the reply got deleted again, so bounce for the morning
teamhurtmore - Member
Excuse me missing the three (one word?) answers to my earlier questions - were the replies deleted?What happens to £ today - was that a perverse vote of confidence?
Here's another simple question
Bojo re-affirmed today that £350m was the correct figure specifically saying that this was the sum that we send to the EU. Was he telling the truth - yes or no? Hopefully this answer won't be deleted.
Ireland is different - most of that is good old fashioned tax competition and some quirks inherited from us. Amazing what can be achieved when you take control YS wanted to do the same !!!!
POSTED 14 HOURS AGO #
Given your consequentialist argument above I guess the answer to Bojo lying again yesterday and the fact that the lie was central to the awful broadcast means that the answer was no BUT it doesn't matter. The means justify the ends just as with yS. Perfect for the post truth world. But at least you arebhonest in your willingness to lie to the British people to achieve your end.
However, let's stick with the £ yesterday. Was that a perverse vote of confidence or a reflection of reality?
And does taking control increase or decrease the chances of tax loopholes etc
Only two questions to add to the unanswered list this morning. In the meantime trying to get a little more on your tax issue that the Wail but difficult, however judging by replies so far, looks like a lot of baloney again. Happy to be proven wrong with some decent analysis though.
Jambas - a short explanation of how to address the issue of tax loopholes would be informative for the rest of us. The UK and Ireland (cough) have regularly resisted moves towards greater harmonisation of tax (eg Corporateion tax which causes you some grief by all accounts) and with VAT we have ensured that we have plenty of opt outs to allow us to maintain our separate bands including those below the minimum EU level.
So I am a little confused, not helped by the fact that the upwardly mobile Michael Gove now seems to have turned 180 degrees from supporting increases in VAT to 20% to now wanting to reduce them piecemeal below EU levels.
So guidance on how this works or could work would be appreciated. At the moment the big firms seem to be running rings around us despite our controls!!
The Remain camp need to have a better responce to news items such as the one below than "you are all racists" - that line is clearly not working. On the item below imo tye disasterous Schengen agreement is central to the issue, it features an Albanian camp on the cliffs at Dieppe, all those people are there illegally imho and France and all the other countries they passed through are doing their upmost to look the other way so its someone else's problem - a classic piece of EU incompetance. The piece features an Albanian deported from Southampton 5 years ago trying get back illegally.
What you wanting jamba, walls and guard towers at every border in Europe? Catch yourself on.
Migration isn't a problem of border controls.
He just wants attention, as ever....
any answers?
Didn't you get the memo?
Bozza has all the answers. He's going to return this country to imperial greatness and get rid of all those frightful foreigners.
Bit sketchy on the detail, but don't worry... It'll all be fine
This reminds me of one of Browns closest allies saying that he plotted against Blair for so long, that they all assumed that there was some grand masterplan ready to be instigated once in number 10. They all waited with baited breath for the policy anoincements...
and waited....
and waited....
But none came.
And we all know what happened next. He staggered from one debacle to the next, until being booted out at the first opportunity the electorate got!
I think if Bozza wins and gets in, there are going to be some very disappointed racists
I have heard brexiters saying they want net migration reduced to a few tens of thousands. The split for 2015 is
Net migration from EU 184,000
Net migration from outside EU 188,000.
I can't see how leaving the EU will reduce net migration to less than 100,000, considering we can already do something about migration from outside, and many brexiters say they wish to have more people come over from commonwealth countries thus increasing the figure of 188,000.
You made the fatal mistake of thinking there was some substance or policy to their soundbites.
Basically they have no idea how to deliver anything but anyone who say they wont is playing fear and doing Britain down...waves flag, show picture of Churchill...sound of spitfires in the background etc
Watched the Leave campaign broadcast. Can't see what all the STW fuss is about. A million extra people every 3 years for our NHS to cope with, places for them to live, schools for their kids ? I am not hearing a Remain solution to this. Ernie (pro Leave strangle absent here ?) posted a chart on another thread showing how fewer beds we have per person than elsewhere in Europe. We are making a problem significantly worse
I really can't see how you can argue with this
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ctk - Member
Don't believe remain 'have won the economic argument'
Leave certainly haven't, £110bn of funding promises/ideas/musings so far from £10bn saving?
Net migration from EU 184,000
Net migration from outside EU 188,000.
By that over 50% of UK immigration is by Visa, the rest isn't. What does the rest do? Does it fill jobs brits don't want to do? If your figures of 1 million every 3 are serious the 1 million every 6 must also scare you. What if the UK economy needs that many people, needs that many young people paying into pensions, being docs and nurses, picking veg?
Jambas, perhaps STW forumites can distinguish between facts and the xenophobia scare stories generated by your team.
Here are two starters including you alma mater
http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/node/2632
The two central arguments (lies) used by Brexiteers - £350m which could be spent on the NHS - have both been discredited as has the attempted link between the two.
That fact that these (xenophobic) lie remain on the front page and in the TV broadcast is a disgrace.
Which it does
I am surprised as normally you can be relied on to see both sides of any issue.Watched the Leave campaign broadcast. Can't see what all the STW fuss is about.
The same old tired xenophobic guff trying to blame immigrants for the effects of austerity.
Completely ignoring the fact that it's ageing Brits that are filling up the NHS beds.
Not young working age immigrants
Despite our bumper immigration as I alsi pointed out in the other thread we still have a shortage of brickies
You're a bam! 😆jambalaya - Member
Watched the Leave campaign broadcast. Can't see what all the STW fuss is about.
If you want to be happy Vote OUT.
Be happy Vote OUT.
Not difficult really.
Try it.
The same old tired xenophobic guff trying to blame immigrants for the effects of austerity.
This. No surprise jamba is comfortable with it.
A diversionary (not really) question from me, for those who might know the answer. (I'm fairly well-versed in UK politics and process, but just can't seem to get an answer to this.)
Priti Patel has been MP for Witham since 2010, and Minister for Employment. she's paid for out of our tax money. (I know.....)
How then, given that these taxpayer-funded tasks presumably consume her time, is she able to do so much work for Vote Leave?
BTW- this is a genuine question and could be levelled at all involved in this- if they've got a constituency to run and a cabinet position, what's being left out of their working day to fit this in?
ctk - MemberDon't believe remain 'have won the economic argument'
True enough tbh, neither side have won it but Leave have definitely lost it by more.
what's being left out of their working day to fit this in?
Some consultancy work in the city? long lunch in the commons bar? Coke and hookers? Filling in dodgy expenses claims? 'Research' trip to Disneyland?
Demonising the unemployed and disabled as its the turn of immigrants?
Can we burn you at the stake if the [s]muppets[/s] country follow you and we're left poor & unhappy?chewkw - Be happy Vote OUT.
Or will you have migrated by then 😆
The mistake they made on that video is that he should have got the wife up the duff a few months before they came over from Romania.
How dare you post such a piece @ninfan ? Family of 5, £750 a month for house, plus utilities, plus JSA (for one or both parents ?), plus school places for 3 kids. I have no doubt all of that is a far better life than they had in Romania and that Birmingham offers far better prospects. They made a very rational economic choice in coming and bringing the kids too.
[i]Applications from outside the UK are growing, we don not have the supply of housing, we don't have places to put them and the situation is only going to get worse.[/i]
Labour struggling a bit today with a survey which showed nearly half of their supporters don't know which side Labour are supporting 😳 Not surprising given the left have historically been against the EU and the have a leader who has blogged on that stance repeatedly. Hopefully this confusion means they won't vote or worse still they vote Leave thinking that's the Labour position 😉
I see the posh name calling is catching on now - remember that applies to the whole of the US, Canada, Australia etc etc
Uncontrolled immigration is a big issue for voters throughout the EU and the EU as usual is not listening as they care only about their pet little political project and are electorally responsible to no one.
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Above is a chart from fullfact/OECD @ernie posed in another thread. Obviously the NHS has plenty of spare capacity - 3 hospital beds per 1000 vs 6.5 in France and 8 in Germany.
Vote leave has a very strong case here, hence it's been central to the campaign since day 1. I delivered a lot of NHS orientated leaflets inc handing them out to NHS staff.
a central lie
did you read the two docs i linked to?
its simple xenopobic scaremongering. Immigrants are not clogging up the NHS. And NHS failures are not realated to our position in the EU. The source you quote above falsifies clearly the OUTers BS on the impact of immigration on NHS.
Usual Brexit BS - we have a problem, lets blame the EU bogeyman. Shameful.
Any answers yet?
Uncontrolled immigration is a big issue for voters
what nation has uncontrolled immigration ?
electorally responsible to no one.
Apart from all being elected , unlike in the Uk, that is an excellent point
Is anything you say ever factually accurate?
Usual Brexi BS - we have a problem, lets blame the EU bogeyman. Shameful.
Very much this
Vote leave has a very strong case here
Yes those torie brexiters sure as shit want to look after the NHS all those years in office its what has defined them...well that and protecting the rights of the working classes obviously
Your view have left the fanciful and are wandering even firther away in to a distant land that reason and logic cannot touch
Immigrants are not clogging up the NHS.
Are you sure ?
Nigel Farage reckons they're clogging up the M4.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/07/nigel-farage-blames-immigration-m4-traffic-ukip-reception ]Farage blames immigration for traffic on M4 after no-show at Ukip reception[/url]
I think they're all trying to get to Bristol, or get away from it, I'm not sure which.
The chart is from the OECD/fullfact, what's a untrue about it ? We have spare capacity or not ? Also @ninfan's video, are they actors ?
Not interested in docs from the Remain camp only for campaigning for Leave, my mind's made up and no one I am interacting with is interested in Economic research papers either.
Poor by comparison to who? Define poor.DaRC_L - Member
chewkw - Be happy Vote OUT.
Can we burn you at the stake if the muppets country follow you and we're left poor & unhappy?
Or will you have migrated by then
You will only be unhappy if you are greedy.
I will have migrated to Scotland or to lead the Scots for a boarder raid ... Freedoomm!
Vote OUT if you want to be happy.
The chart is from the OECD/fullfact, what's a untrue about it ?
Your xenophobic bollocks.
Leaving the EU, which I fully 100% support, won't solve the crises in the NHS.
The chart is from the OECD/fullfact, what's a untrue about it ? We have spare capacity or not ?
Is this a wind up? What is untrue, is the link between the chart and immigration and the source makes that clear.
Also @ninfan's video, are they actors ?
No idea, I only lasted about 6 minutes - the bit where they were refused help. Was there a happy ending?
Not interested in docs from the Remain camp only for campaigning for Leave, my mind's made up and no one I am interacting with is interested in Economic research papers either.
Which must be a relief - in post-truth politics the truth is irrelvant if not a hinderance certainly for the OUTers
Its odd to limit yourself to the campaign for leave when its frontpiece VOTE LEAVE* continues to peddle blatant lies that contradict the Electoral Commission.
Shameful.
On 23 June, it's safer to Vote Leave and take back control. [b]We should stop sending £350 million per week to unelected politicians in Brussels, and spend our money on our priorities, like the NHS[/b].
Still there now in all its glory. How many lies can you fit into one sentance?
The summary:
[b]Vote OUT = You are in charge.[/b]
Vote remain = give up, surrender, let others & EU take charge of your destiny.
Cmon chewk
Who is in charge of UK interest rates - the EU?
Who sets UK tax rates and how they are made up - the EU?
Who determines UK government expenditure - the EU?
Who decides whether we go to war - the EU?
Who decides if we stay an monarchy or not - the EU?
Who decides which side of the road we drive on - the EU?
Who determines your life. Do you have any control?
Cameron (IMO) called the Referendum for June hoping not to have a summer of migrant crises stories, that doesn't seem to be working, plus now this, the EU fiasco stories just keep coming
Reports of 26 sexual assaults at a German music festival [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/police-investigating-reports-of-sexual-assaults-at-german-music/ ]Police Invesitgating Allegations[/url]
Here is a call for controlled immigration into Germany, shock horror let's have an actual policy rather than the current fiasco
[url= http://www.dw.com/en/opinion-germany-now-needs-an-immigration-law/a-19296490 ]Germany now needs immigration laws[/url]
Imagine how depressing it would be to find that a bunch of racists had voted us out of a prosperous future over trumped up hysteria about Romanian scroungers.
teamhurtmore - MemberCmon chewk
Who is in charge of UK interest rates - the EU?
Who sets UK tax rates and how they are made up - the EU?
Who determines UK government expenditure - the EU?
Who decides whether we go to war - the EU?
Who decides if we stay an monarchy or not - the EU?
Who decides which side of the road we drive on - the EU?Who determines your life. Do you have any control?
There you go trying to confuse everyone again.
You are really thinking of the non-issues to be honest.
None of the questions you posted really make sense or even important in the grand scheme of our life i.e. Freedoommm!