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The thing is the old will support the young if they drop the chip on the shoulder it’s-all-the-fault-of-the-boomers rubbish.
As soon as they riot or protest it ends up in the daily fail, and they get called feral scum.
Corbyn in position it hasn’t yet put anyone in power, and it’s unlikely to if they simply blame previous generations for whatever perceived injustices exist now*. The thing is the old will support the young if they drop the chip on the shoulder it’s-all-the-fault-of-the-boomers rubbish.
So what you're saying, is that they should turn up and vote more despite the demographics being heavily set against them - 65 and up make up 25 percent of the population according to the ONS. 55 and up probably adds another 10 to 15 percent on top of that. With that amount of voting power, comes a bit of responsibility on the part of the older generation.
They need to ****ing educated about the ivory towers they are clearly living in....
, and it’s unlikely to if they simply blame previous generations for whatever perceived injustices exist now*. The thing is the old will support the young if they drop the chip on the shoulder it’s-all-the-fault-of-the-boomers rubbish.
Self perpetuating now isn't it, get labelled as being entitled so point out that it's not that true, get accused of blaming the old....
Again it's a bit rubbish to accuse people of feeling entitled for asking for what previous generations had.
So what you’re saying, is that they should turn up and vote more despite the demographics being heavily set against them
No I'm saying that the whole young vs old thing is a load of bollocks. The old will quite rightly look at the complaints of the young and think, 'well they can't even be bothered to vote, so what are they complaining about?'. Add to that the entitlement and the envy that comes across when the young say 'if they didn't have those pensions and free university education then we wouldn't be as poorly off' then they might feel a bit pissed off that they'd worked all their lives to better themselves only for their offspring to throw it back in their faces, especially when those offspring have appreciably better and easier lives than they had when they were young.
And for the record I'm 44, so very much not an aggrieved pensioner.
Again it’s a bit rubbish to accuse people of feeling entitled for asking for what previous generations had.
Like polio?
The old will quite rightly look at the complaints of the young
Apart from, as already pointed out, the figures are biased against the young. Especially with the two party system we have currently. That Labour has managed to enthuse some is impressive considering last time a party actually tried to appeal to younger people as soon as they got a sniff of power they went and spat in their eyes.
Add to that the entitlement and the envy
So they are being screwed over in education, they will have less stable working conditions in which they will need to work longer and harder and still may or may not be able to purchase a house since the government is desperately trying to keep the housing market inflated to save the older generations from their own stupidity and greed. Yet they are the entitled ones? As for envy. Well you cant really blame them for that when you have some people ending up with massive wealth purely down to their natural ability aka being born prior to the housing boom.
offspring have appreciably better and easier lives than they had when they were young.
Aside from they dont. There are some more material goods but living standards are falling.
Self perpetuating now isn’t it, get labelled as being entitled so point out that it’s not that true, get accused of blaming the old….
Not really. I think there is broad support and sympathy for the young among the old. Especially on the issue of crappy jobs, zero hours contracts/temporary work, and lack of decent welfare provision. And on housing too. Boomers recognise how lucky they were to buy their council houses at a massive discount. My parents still talk about it today as the thing they most benefitted from, but they see the solution as not removing the right to buy but quite rightly in building more housing (we'll leave greenfield nimbyism out of it for now). It's unsurprising though that the old will switch off if someone suggests the solution to all this is for them to pay a lot more.
"Like polio?"
Which people looked at, saw was a fixable problem, and stomped out. If polio was still around today and these kids looked at it, saw it was a fixable problem, and said let's stomp it out, they'd be called snowflakes.
If polio was still around today and these kids looked at it, saw it was a fixable problem, and said let’s stomp it out, they’d be called snowflakes.
By who?
By the same people who rent them flats at huge prices then slag them off for wanting to buy their own homes. Polio was good enough for us! And you lot have phones, why are you complaining about polio, we never had phones. And avocados, even though actually we did have avocados too so we're really not sure what that's all about.
It's ironic that the rose-tinted view of the past is mostly held by folk who weren't there.
If polio was still around today and these kids looked at it, saw it was a fixable problem, and said let’s stomp it out they
would be blasted for being insensitive to polio sufferers
It would be a twitter outrage
It’s ironic that the rose-tinted view of the past is mostly held by folk who weren’t there.
Sorry which bit of history are you referring too there...
The boomers have undoubtedly benefitted from a massive undeserved windfall
Have they? They won't get to see the money now tied up in their houses will they?
They grandkids will though. IF the grandparents managed to buy their own home. If they didn't, then chances are the grandkids won't either. With supply still too low demand remains high, which means those millennials with well off grandparents will be fine, and those without won't. Society will keep getting more and more divided.
Have they? They won’t get to see the money now tied up in their houses will they?
You clearly don’t see all the equity release/ reverse mortgage adverts on ITV3 in between heartbeat/poirot/midsomer murders. You can be excused because of all the cruise and funeral adverts.
it looks like the winners will be the banks not the kids!
If the younger generation want change they have to make it happen themselves by giving political parties no option but to listen to them.
Conpleteiy ignoring the demographic shift, and that many people get their first general election vote at 22. There are people who are now 20 and never got a vote in the Brexit referendum. The politicans need to listen to the old more than the young… unless they decide to genuinely govern for the whole country, and not just the older people who give them their electoral mandates.
Have they? They won’t get to see the money now tied up in their houses will they?
Well yes, you use your overpriced house to buy somewhere in the sticks and then pocket the rest.
The thing is the old will support the young if they drop the chip on the shoulder it’s-all-the-fault-of-the-boomers rubbish.
Yeah, "support". Like they did when they royally ****ed the young by voting for a xenophobic, backward, bigoted brexit without so much as a backward glance at those who will have to suffer the consequences. With "support" like that...
it looks like the winners will be the banks not the kids!
That's (always) the idea, isn't it?
Worrying about your selfie pout certainly puts living with the constant threat of imminent nuclear annihilation into perspective. It's just as well no one had invented "stress" and "anxiety" before the turn of the century.
By the same people who rent them flats at huge prices then slag them off for wanting to buy their own homes. Polio was good enough for us!............. etc.
Who are these people Northwind? Do you know them? I think I'm the age group you talking about (if at the younger end) and I don't recognise that character in anyone I know.
Follow the money. It is bound to be difficult because the pudgy faced crook will have deliberately made the trail torturous to follow. But it can be followed.
@slowoldman, yes I know some of these people and you can easily find them in droves online and in newspapers if you're lucky enough to not meet any of them in person. If you read a post and think "that doesn't seem to refer to me", it's not because it's wrong, it's probably because it's not referring to you. Take a look around at what people throw "snowflake" at.
I think he's so arrogant and full of himself that it will be straight forward .
it looks like the winners will be the banks not the kids!
Although for more and more elderly people the care homes are the winners.
Two things struck me from the Andrew Marr - Bankski interview.
If it's true that that the £8m lent to Vote Leave came from the premiums paid by half a million insurance punters then each policyholder put £16.00 into it. I don't think I'm one, I'll be well pissed off I am.
He said that he'd now vote Remain because such a mess is being made of Brexit that it won't be worth it. Most grown ups could see that from the start but it sounds like he knows the wheels are coming off it all, so is starting the narrative that it would all have been OK if the remoaners and traitors hadn't sabotaged it.
****
@Northwind, should our paths ever cross in 'real life,' remind me that I'd like to buy you a drink.
I'm on my way
I'll buy him one too.
Two things struck me from the Andrew Marr – Bankski interview.
One thing struck me - the BBC are giving a platform to a man who is accused - and apparently with good grounds - of having subverted our democracy. If that doesn't make Marr, literally, an "enemy of the people", I don't know what.
That is what has brought us to this stage, where populism is spreading across the world. The media have abdicated all responsibility in favour of ratings, allowing far too much time to insane fringe politics to spread a hateful and simplistic negative message.
That is what has brought us to this stage, where populism is spreading across the world
Same thing that brought about populism last time round. Hubristic and arrogant leaders taking the people for granted. At some point the people will wake up and strike back, and there are lots of charlatans and snake oil salesman out there ready and willing to exploit that anger. We never learn.
There's a ch4/survation programme on tonight at 8pm with a debate.
Farage will be there.
When it goes tits up the only people the politicians can blame to save their skins are The People .
That will not end well.
That will not end well.
Why do you think some of them want s people’s vote? They can absolve themselves of responsibility!
They thought the blister and pomp the mail created for Brexit was true and launched A50 as the will of the people. Now they can see the lies and are angry at the incompetence they want to make the people responsible for the failure
Farage will be there.
Anyone from the Greens?
SNP?
LibDems?
Doubt it.
Farrage & Banks on everything still.
Go media!
= :87(
Have they? They won’t get to see the money now tied up in their houses will they?
No, poor things, they'll just have to console themselves living in their massive houses in nice areas that cost them the same as a tiny one bed flat above a shop would do to a younger person now.
No, poor things, they’ll just have to console themselves living in their massive houses in nice areas that cost them the same as a tiny one bed flat above a shop would do to a younger person now.
So wait - everyone born between 1945 and 1960 lives in a massive house?
If you can calm down for a moment you will realise I'm not saying EVERY baby boomer is poor, I'm simply saying that having bought a house relatively cheaply 40 years ago does not necessarily make you a fat cat.
Too much hyperbole in this kind of discussion. Does no-one any favours. There are huge structural problems that definitely need to be fixed, but throwing recriminations around, especially at individuals as posters on here have done to slowoldman is just going to piss everyone off and entrench positions even further.
House prices are falling in London. This will knock on country wide.
Please feel sorry for my brexit brother in law who can't sell his house and simply can't believe its value doesn't go up every month.
****.
I’m simply saying that having bought a house relatively cheaply 40 years ago does not necessarily make you a fat cat.
Of course not. But then, imagine that you are looking at either paying high rents into pensionable age, or borrowing X times your income to buy (possibly on top of huge debts run up during education/training)… where X is a far higher number than it ever was 40 years ago. So… high rent 'till you die, or a massive mortgage for a tiny place… oh, and politically irrelevant due to voting system/rules and demographics.
So you blame us because it's clearly our fault that the system/economy/policies have changed?
No, I think politicans should take into the account the effect their policies have on everyone in the country, not just those that got to vote in the last election/referendum.
high rent ’till you die, or a massive mortgage for a tiny place
I did say that there are huge structural problems, no argument there.
It's the blame game that isn't quite so clever.
Unfortunately, most people I know who voted Leave, and voted for May's take on the Conservatives, happens to be older with a rent/mortgage free home. That definitely clouds my judgement of who the current government are governing for. But then, despite all the young voters I know voting Labour, the old guys leading that party don't seem to much better balanced away from chasing the Grey Vote either.
It’s the blame game that isn’t quite so clever.
I blame the politicans.
But then again… they're always after votes…
Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be older with a rent/mortgage free home. That just happens to be most of the people I know.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/05/firms-no-additional-checks-eu-employees-nokes
Government backtracks on additional checks for EU nationals after a no deal brexit.
So basically been just votes for economic suicide and nothing more....
Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be Scottish.
Can we blame this on the English and Welsh?
Government backtracks on additional checks for EU nationals after a no deal brexit.
Government backtracks on monitoring people in the country once it realises it does not have the wit or wherewithal to do it...
plus any check requires a national photo ID. so for a UK citizen everyone would need a passport or the dreaded National ID card to prove their right to work...
The pointlessness of this is glorious, no taking back control of our borders and migration for the brexshiteers and a borked economy for the rest of us.
It's not pointless.…
…nope, you've got me, it is pointless.
Oh no, hang on, it'a been a great opportunity for lots of people to make a political point about sovereignty, or looking after our own, or other nonsense. Nothing cited as a reason for doing this can't be acted on by our government (given enough time/money/drive) from inside the EU.
• Want better controls on who gets to live and work here? Then waste money monitoring who enters and leaves… where they live… what they earn… all a waste of time, but being in the EU or not, that's what you have to misdirect your efforts into.
• Want a worthwhile trade deal with a country we don't currently have one with? Work with the EU to get one… that way we have the collective bargaining position to get one. No block has a better record on reducing trade barriers with other trading blocks/countries.
You know how, every now and then, someone posts on here to say "f*** it, if the idiots want it bad enough, let's turn the country to sh!t, I've had enough!"? I'm almost there.
Lucas did a good job on C4.
It helped that both Conservative and Labour representatives admitted that their plans for Brexit would damage our economy, and proposed no real benefit beyond "the decision was made" back in 2016, and that by leaving we would comply with that decision.
Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be Scottish
I would like to remind you of where you live...!
I'm just depressed by it now.
Lord Sugar, I agree with. Those who misled us, deliberately, funded by dodgy sources, should be prosecuted somehow. Class action against Garage, Johnson and Gove anyone?
It's ok to be a dumb voter.. People make mistakes and that's fine. That's why referendums are advisory.
That's why MPs are supposed to act for the good of the country rather than hiding under an umbrella.
Those in power who took the referendum result literally on such an insignificant margin because it suited an agenda are those who should be punished most..
I would like to remind you of where you live…!
That's my point Matt. We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us. But, you know, if everyone else is playing the blame game, I might as well join in
We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us.
We don't really, all it takes is a little thought, critical thinking and logic.
That’s my point Matt. We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us.
So true. Even when we think we're not. 😉
all it takes is a little thought, critical thinking and logic.
that's why people read the Dail Mail/Express/Sun etc, takes the effort out of those sorts of thing
Have a look at the Survation data breakdown, if you think that the oldest vs youngest concept as regards Brexit and related issues is just our conceptions based on living in bubbles.
And politicans are following the oldest on this. I still blame politicans for not properly considering the country as a whole.
Have a look at the survation data breakdown, if you think that the oldest vs youngest concept as regards Brexit and related issues is just our conceptions based on living in bubbles.
Or have a look at the regional voting and see if you think the English and Welsh are to blame.
Move on from 2016. Many areas of England and Wales are moving towards the sensible views on Brexit, and even more so on immigration, held in Scotland and NI. Have a look at the Survation data.
Where as the oldest/youngest divide is growing.
It's down to politicans to listen more widely, and act for the whole country, not just older voters.
🤣🤣🤣
It's also time for the politicians to start thinking abut the whole United Kingdom, not just the south east (or Greater London), but that's not going so well right now. Sadly, that's where the wealth appears to be and will be where they focus.
I don't know anyone here in Spain who voted leave. None of my friends in Germany did either. I'm going to blame the British for this mess.
All my dad's I know voted to leave, I blaim my dad
not just the south east (or Greater London
By going ahead with Brexit they are. Certainly ignoring London and SE was very close. As far as I can tell all the wealthy parts of the SE voted remain. So clearly the wealthy (outside of the brexit elite) arent winning in this case.
Okay, I'll dive into the Survation data so that you don't have to…
18-24 : 77% remain
25-34 : 67% remain
35-44 : 60% remain
45-53 : 50:50
55-64 : 53% leave
65-74 : 59% leave
75+ : 65% leave
(20th October - 2nd November 2018 - table 5)
Regional breakdown shows swing from Leave to Remain strongest in Wales, North of England, and South West. Sciotland and London still have strongest Remain support though… but England and Wales both Remain now.
All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc
and she keeps being proved right
Banks still lying about it all. And being applauded for it.
I wonder what Nick Clegg's roll will be now that this makes calls for more info from Facebook a very live issue again…?
Sounds like a well run company...
Will this information make labour realise that there are votes to be had by being pro remain?
Doubt it. They think we'll be "out" of the EU before any new nationwide vote takes place… and then what option do voters really have…?
It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.
Also worth checking the stats re. educational level, income and employment status.
The pointlessness of this is glorious
It is far from pointless if you stand to gain personally when public services are further starved of cash and have to wave the white flag and be 'outsourced'.......
Or if you stand to gain personally when your workforce can have their terms and conditions ripped up in their faces and you can announce that it is this or nothing.
All my dad’s I know voted to leave, I blame my dad
My sister and BIL voted leave, as frustrated copper and nurse. Guess which home secretary he was p*ss*d at is now PM? BIL and sister also chose to leave and now live and work abroad, having dumped us in it..
All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc
and she keeps being proved right
Yep - and she'll be proved right again when the fines levied are totally derisory and can thus be thought of as 'operating expenses' for the greatest heist in British history.
All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc
and she keeps being proved right
Information Commissioner finds no evidence of:
Cambridge Analytica ("CA") being involved with Leave.EU other than a preliminary exercise.
Any connection between the work AIQ did for Vote Leave and CA
Any misuse of data by Vote Leave
So little evidence for her conspiracy theory.
It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.
Around about 60? Slightly under that? As low as 50? Whippersnappers…
Information Commissioner finds no evidence of:
Your choice of key points is rather fascinating.
Cambridge Analytica (“CA”) being involved with Leave.EU other than a preliminary exercise.
They did however find a relationship between AIQ and Vote Leave and a couple of others. Since the links between AIQ and CA are, to put it mildly, confusing it isnt unreasonable for a journalist to use CA when it was actually AIQ.
There is also an outstanding case around CA and UKIP with possible Leave.EU involvement. This wasnt included in this report since UKIP are appealing.
Any connection between the work AIQ did for Vote Leave and CA
Well aside from the fact they found a rather complex relationship between the two organisations. That is with them being able to use a lot more aggressive tactics than a journalist. Even then its worth noting CA didnt cooperate and are under crimimal investigation due to this.
Any misuse of data by Vote Leave
How convenient. You skip the fact they found clear misuse of data by Leave.EU
So little evidence for her conspiracy theory.
Really? Lets recap the actual facts rather than your rather convenient cherry picking:
CA are under criminal investigation due to miuse of data. They would be facing fines on top as well if they hadnt gone into insolvency.
Facebook got hit with a fine.
Leave.EU and Eldon insurance misused data and are being fined for it.
So whilst she didnt get all the details right she got the broad gist correct.