[quote=Junkyard ]Could you quantify that in terms of GDP growth inflation unemployment and time please.
150% of GDP, 150 thousand unemployed and 150 years 😈
Ah a jamby prediction perhaps as your in Paris so much a cake stand at Versailles, might not be a bad idea
Jamby, among many others I'm still waiting for a plausible solution to the NI problem.
Undoubtably for many that would be a shock but my view is it would be a short sharp one
If you don't come up with any evidence for that belief then no one is going to believe you, given you are saying the opposite of what we are seeing.
You need credibility.
The rest of the world manages just fine not being in the EU, no freedom of movement etc etc.
Manages just fine how?
Because there's nowhere I can think of comparable in size to the UK, with our limited natural resources, reliance on foreign low skilled workers etc that has a standard of living that's even remotely similar?
Obviously when your floating around in your yacht and the only interest you have in the rest of society is how much more money you can rape out of them I can see how you'd think that. But perhaps try takng your head out of your arse before you choke on your own shit and realise not everyone is in the same privileged position you are.
Undoubtably for many that would be a shock but my view is it would be a short sharp one
How short? 20 years? Guess Nissan and the city of London will be long gone by then. It's an insane idea.
My wife is pretty good, not perfect, and getting on a bit, perhaps I should kill her, go to jail for 15 years, and get a better one when I get out? That sort of plan?
Brexit, it's not getting better with age is it?
I have noticed over the last 50 year's that economic misery (recessions etc) now arrive almost out of the blue and hang around a lot longer - its taken the best part of 10 years to recover from 2008. So based upon that alone a WTO style brexit is likey to take 10 year's as a minimum to recover to current standards of living. So in broad terms that's 2008 to 2028 to break even, 20 years? And if i add in 76 to 86 that means 30 years of my working life have been sonewhat challenging.
Undoubtably for many that would be a shock but my view is it would be a short sharp one
I am sure upthread there was something about it being a couple of decades and that your children's children would benefit????
Maybe i am miss remembering.
Oh my god - the grinning idiot is on Marr.
I think we should have a referendum on the death penalty. And when its voted through by 37% of the population we should force the other 63% to witness the executions and give a rousing cheer at every death as anything else would be unpatriotic.
Have we done Amber Rudd saying that reporting on the Brexit farce should be more patriotic?
Honestly? I know that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, but she is too thick to be a scoundrel, so she must just be an idiot.
Is this what it has come to? Not being allowed to comment on this fiasco as it might be deemed unpatriotic?
We need someone to have the balls to stand up and say "we get it, Brexit was a lashing out against liberalism, but it is just plain wrong and will damage the UK, perhaps irreparably". Maybe we could have a second referendum and if the vote is 'remain' we could offer a national 'Racism is OK Day'. Just one day of the year (23rd June has a nice ring to it) where it is ok to be overtly racist, just to allow 'the people' to feel they are taking back control. Of course there would be uproar when you couldn't get served down the local tandoori because racism cuts both ways, but hey.......
dannyh - Member
...and if the vote is 'remain' we could offer a national 'Racism is OK Day'. Just one day of the year (23rd June has a nice ring to it) where it is ok to be overtly racist, just to allow 'the people' to feel they are taking back control...
I think you have just laid the groundwork for "The Purge". 🙂
It's ok, just recognise it as the last desperate thrashing about in panic as they realise they've lost the argument, not because they were outwitted by skilled opponents, but because they were wrong from the start.
The rest of the world manages just fine not being in the EU
Just fine for who, what does that even mean, probably one the most cretinous things Jambalaya has come up with - I can only imagine that individuals in huge swathes of the rest of the world can only dream of having the rights and protections afforded by the EU to its citizens. The EU is not perfect by any means but it is undoubtedly a civilising influence.
I think
sums up those for whom its just fine. Economic rapists - good term with their regulatory bonfires. I was going back through some old papers recently and came across some pices i'd kept about the Bhopal disaster and I imagine things like that continue to this day (the Primark sweatshop disasters come to mind oil pollution in part of Africa etc)who's doing just fine - joe bod Indian /Bangladeshi/Nigerian etc - I think not.how much more money you can rape out of them
'Doing just fine'
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oldmanmtb - Member - Block User - Quote
I have noticed over the last 50 year's that economic misery (recessions etc) now arrive almost out of the blue and hang around a lot longer
Historically, Marx predicted this and said that what you are experiencing would herald the end of Capitalism, as the economic cycles ran closer and closer together, but was vague on timelines and thought that expansion of capitalism would delay this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_theory
He was critiqued by Rosa Luxemburg, who wrote "The Accumulation of Capital":
"....capitalism needs to constantly expand into noncapitalist areas in order to access new supply sources, markets for surplus value, and reservoirs of labor.
According to Luxemburg, Marx had made an error in Capital in that the proletariat could not afford to buy the commodities they produced, and therefore by his own criteria it was impossible for capitalists to make a profit in a closed-capitalist system since the demand for commodities would be too low, and therefore much of the value of commodities could not be transformed into money.
Therefore, according to Luxemburg, capitalists sought to realize profits through offloading surplus commodities onto non-capitalist economies, hence the phenomenon of imperialism as capitalist states sought to dominate weaker economies. This however lead to the destruction of non-capitalist economies as they were increasingly absorbed into the capitalist system. With the destruction of non-capitalist economies however, there would be no more markets to offload surplus commodities onto, and capitalism would break down.
The Accumulation of Capital was harshly criticized by both Marxist and non-Marxist economists, on the grounds that her logic was circular in proclaiming the impossibility of realizing profits in a close-capitalist system, and that her "underconsumptionist" theory was too crude.[28] Her conclusion that the limits of the capitalist system drive it to imperialism and war led Luxemburg to a lifetime of campaigning against militarism and colonialism."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#The_Accumulation_of_Capital
Hmm.
Have we done Amber Rudd saying that reporting on the Brexit farce should be more patriotic?
It was actually Andrea Loathsome, but it's an easy mistake to make. These idiots are more or less interchangeable.
The thing about Brexit that pissed me off the most (and there are a fair few bits) is how this makes us look to the majority of the world's citizens.
It's like a spoiled child turning around and flinging their entire upbringing back in their parents face because they got the wrong X Box game on Christmas morning.
I am sure upthread there was something about it being a couple of decades and that your children's children would benefit????Maybe i am miss remembering.
To be fair to jamba, he tends to revise down mostly.
No not always, I predicted a Remain win initially then revised up to a Leave result 🙂
No not always, I predicted a Remain win initially then revised up to a Leave result
Even a broken clock it right twice a day.......
yes but if it changes time whilst remaining broken its right more often 😉
Manages just fine how?
the thing is we can probably all understand why Mexico ,for example, does not need to be in the Eu and manages fine without it. The problem is when we look at Europe it is much harder to see an example of a nation that has decided it can manage just fine outside the Eu with no formal trade arrangement with it after royally pissing them off.
What country within europe , that is doing fine, is your model based on jamby?
Its hubris wrapped up in ignorance and insulated from reality by your politics
What country within europe , that is doing fine, is your model based on jamby?
Junky - why do you criticise folk for responding to chewy, and yet you respond to jamba? Do you think one is more credible than the other??
Its a fair point but i think Jamby actually believes what he types and whilst neither has great credibility in my eyes Jambys "untruths" - is there a number of times he repeats them when we can say lies ?- sometimes have to be challenged for they are just factually untrue.
When I stopped responding to chewkw - and i have not read any of his posts for a few years ish at a guess - it was all zombie maggots and glocks and a stream of gibberish * so its hard to know what he thought never mind whether he believes it- he may be more rational now as I cannot see how he got less rational.
Jamby I think does actually believe what he writes so it should be challenged but its still a fair comment that you make and I am happy to join in a forum wide boycott though 😈
I agree its fair to say he will not be changing his mind - insert lame 150 joke here.
ninfan wants a reaction and does not believe what he says so again I dont bother to challenge his stuff generally.
* yes I know
Which European countries aren't in EFTA, EU, Schegen etc.
The way of the world is consolidation. economies of scale, pooling of resources. running away isn't going to stop the world just make us poorer.
Ah so we're into the realms of "I reckon".
Ah so we're into the realms of "I reckon".
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[quote=slowoldman ]Ah so we're into the realms of "I reckon".
twas ever thus
And in other news:
Dominic Cummings, the man who masterminded Vote Leave's winning strategy, has described the MPs he worked with as "particularly unbalanced
[url= http://news.sky.com/story/eurosceptic-mps-particularly-unbalanced-says-former-vote-leave-campaigner-10926431 ]Sky News[/url]
Just the sort of guys we need onboard guiding the good ship UK thru the straits of brexit.
The rest of the world manages just fine not being in the EU
Translation:
The rest of the world that has enough purchasing power for Jamby to give a toss about.
Everyone else? Well, they don't matter - except as a bottomless pool of cheap labour kept motivated by having to work 18 hours a day, seven days a week to not starve.
Sometimes a poster's glib asides reveal more about their attitude than any carefully worded posts or cut and pastes of graphs.
Presumably the 'business model' of Nazi Germany's V2 rocket programme is what should be aspired to on a global level?
Lovely quote from that Dominic Cummings interview:
He believes the selecÂtion processes and the incentive structures within parties mean that the wrong kind of people are attracted to becoming MPs, who "to a large extent are not particularly bright, are egomaniacs and they want to be on TV."
I am not sure one had to work with them to realise this
So 1 billion of tax payer money to prop up the Tories in power and the tail will wag the dog.....it's a sad day.
There certainly seems to be a talent vacuum at the top of the Conservative party. They're out of ideas, their ideology is rapidly falling out of favour with the government and their quid pro quo agreement with the right-wing media seems to be more of a hindrance than a help. No-one wants to be the Tory PM who leads the nation into economic disaster, or to rock the boat during negotiations with the EU. The idea that we can Leave, roll back as much legislation as possible and ask a swathe of the population to be poorer, in less secure jobs and to pay [s]more[/s] for unemployment insurance, sickness insurance, private healthcare, even more for housing and to simply be happy to be told "you've never had it so good" by Murdoch and Dacre should be ludicrous to all but the most fanatical Tory.
It's obvious that the Tory-right are pushing for as hard a Brexit as possible, any breakdown in negotiations will be sold to the electorate as EU intransigence. However, Matthew Parris in today's Times is calling for the conservatives to tear up Article 50 and opt to remain in the EU. It's fast becoming the least worst option. The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.
The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.
So there is a positive after all.
To anyone that has thought about it for more than a minute, staying in the EU is clearly the least worst option. Just need someone to be strong enough to say to **** with the will of the people.
stop teasing me! 😆PJM1974 - Member
The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.
Just need someone to be strong enough to say to **** with the will of the people.
Can you imagine the hate the mail, sun and telegraph would come up with?
This may be inaccessible behind a paywall, but the increasingly Hard Brexit Telegraph printed this:
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/06/24/lettersthe-conservatives-must-split-else-tear-apart-brexit/ ]Conservatives and Brexit[/url]
And Conservative Home's comment that more must be done to appease Remain voters in the home counties:
[url= http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/06/why-a-former-coalition-minister-could-be-attractive-to-some-tory-voters-as-liberal-democrat-leader.html ]Here[/url]
Oh, and Gideon's newspaper is at it too:
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/letters/es-views-letter-of-the-day-the-tories-will-have-to-split-over-the-eu-a3565201.html ]Eve-knee Stannit[/url]
Oh and I'm a home county dwelling fully paid up member of the middle classes who'd love to see the Conservatives falling into an existential crisis which splits the press.
There certainly seems to be a talent vacuum at the top of the Conservative party.
Talent vacuum in British politics.
The alternative could well be that the Conservatives split and the rump parties remain unelectable for generations.
Stay in the EU or the Tory party becomes unelectable for decades.....
f*** now that is a hard decision.
I'd love to see the Liberals back.
A credible 3rd choice is desperately needed, I for one trust neither Tories with their hard right element nor Labour with its hard left.
Unfortunately their legacy with pledges and lines in the sand is such that there credibility is shot- I imagine for at least a generation.
TBH i am not sure when we last ad a credible third choice - about a century ?
3.2 millions eu immigrants allowed to stay, must be a few Brexiters very disappointed they are not being Sent home.
Indeed JY.
