The David Davies p*** take on Dead Ringers this evening is worth a listen.
I imagine David Davies sees himself something like:
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The r27 however....
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I think Davis nicely sums up how pesky things like facts and critical thinking have no place in the Brexiteer mindset.
But for wait there's another Brexiteer who's desperate to snatch the chief idiot title
Leadsome, when faced with some criticism of their incompetence , expects the media to be patriotic and only report what's she wants it to !
That incompetence discussed here
who is this "We" she's talking about ?
Have to wonder how far the Tories will push, i think it is becoming clear that the path the Tories are pushing is no deal. A result that will screw a huge number of people in the UK.
I would suggest that the UK population can be divided into 3 groups, remainers, brexiteers and don't really care. For the majority of the don't cares what matters is simple things, jobs, holidays, NHS etc etc.
If the majority see their lives negatively impacted and no indication of an upside who will they blame?
who will they blame?
Everyone but ourselves with all often frequency
And Leadsome can **** off. The media is distorted enough, including social media. What the press really REALLY should do is balanced factual reporting.
The "patriotic" thing to do is clearly to drive the country to disaster in pursuit of your own political career.
The "patriotic" thing to do is clearly to drive the country to disaster in pursuit of your own political career.
Looking good for Boris and his trying to be PM i would suggest.
i think it is becoming clear that the path the Tories are pushing is no deal.
I genuinely don't think they want that, we may end up with that through Tory hubris and ill-thought out "negotiations"*, but I don't think even they are stupid enough to think that's the best outcome.
* Is there a word that encapsulates the way the Tories have completely and utterly underestimated the EU27, lied to the population as a whole about what can be achieved, while simultaneously overestimating their own capabilities?
* Is there a word that encapsulates the way the Tories have completely and utterly underestimated the EU27, lied to the population as a whole about what can be achieved, while simultaneously overestimating their own capabilities?
Brexit
I genuinely don't think they want that, we may end up with that through Tory hubris and ill-thought out "negotiations"*
Individually they might not, but collectively that's where they're taking us. "Groupthink" is the name for this, IIRC.
but I don't think even they are stupid enough to think that's the best outcome.
Seriously?
And Leadsome can **** off
she was my MP for a bit, she seemed bewildered by how most people outside of her Tory middle-class Northants rural bubble lived their lives TBH
she was my MP for a bit, she seemed bewildered by how most people outside of her Tory middle-class Northants rural bubble lived their lives TBH
Was it Portilo who said that as an MP he never realised how most people lived, it was only after he lost that he discovered the "real" world most live in???
Looking good for Boris and his trying to be PM i would suggest.
Seriously?
call me naive if you want, but surely they must have spoken with EU specialists (academics and so on) they must be taking actual advice about what happens if...They can't be idiotic enough to think they don't need expert advice, and I don't think they're not having those discussions.
I don't think that much of most Tory politicians, but I don't think they're so stupid that they don't realise they need all the help they can get
This "patriotic" thing is really grinding my balls now.
Calling out this bunch of serial failures as incompetents is not being un patriotic and trying to hide behind that just shows their desperation to avoid scrutiny.
Actually its probably the mindset that got us into this mess.
"Never mind the facts just be patriotic and jump of this cliff shouting for queen and country"
kin nob heads.
[quote=wilburt ]This "patriotic" thing is really grinding my balls now.
Calling out this bunch of serial failures as incompetents is not being un patriotic and trying to hide behind that just shows their desperation to avoid scrutiny.
It's part of the other thing which grinds my gears "we must pull together", implying that those of us who don't agree with what they're doing should just get behind them.
TBH Emily should have just quoted Samuel Johnson at Loathsome - even more apt than might be immediately obvious given that Johnson was just complaining about false patriotism.
patriotism is the last bastion of the scoundrel
TBH when all you can do is appeal for us to get excited by the flag then you have lost the argument
TBH i rarely get behind the country and I sure as hell dont do it when some muddled tories flounder indecisively as they drive us off a cliff cheered on my the [s]stupid[/s]less well educated voters and the [s]racist little englanders[/s] patriotic flag loving white folk .
FWIW i dont think they want no deal i think they might have actually believed their own hubris - they need us more than them and we could have our cake and eat it. Now the EU is emphatically showing who has the cards they are left with empty rhetoric and no real position on the issues
Its also worth noting that enough Tory MPS are strongly pro the EU that a hard Brexit may well split the party and I dont just mean Scottish Tories refusing to side with it
Its also worth noting that enough Tory MPS are strongly pro the EU that a hard Brexit may well split the party and I dont just mean Scottish Tories refusing to side with it
Can hope for a t least one good thing to come out of this cluster****
It's Dunning-Krueger innit. Coupled with the assumption that seems to exist in some political circles, that you can make something true just by talking about it over and over again.
The media is now openly talking about abandoning brexit, its only taken them a year to realise what was obvious to some of us right from the outset. There is no brexit.
patriotism is the last bastion of the scoundrel
and the virtue of the vicious.
Capiain, you seem to be ignoring two key points (1) we lost the referendum and (2) the two parties who received the most votes in the GE both promised Brexshit albeit in possibly different forms.
So difficult to say that there is "mo Brexshit." the only light at the end of the tunnel is that when faced with tough choices the default position of the EU is to kick the can as far down the road as possible. So it seems to me, that we may well end up with a very extended transition - the obvious bit - and then the almighty fudge of almighty fudges. Why? Because that's is most people's interests. In the meantime, we sall see whether the Euro folly is finally abandoned, restructured or not.
Interesting times ahead.
It's part of the other thing which grinds my gears "we must pull together"
Gears on a unicycle?
As for "pulling together", the last time Brits did that was WWII. There are structural conflicts in British society that mean some people have never pulled together. Brexit has created a new divide which means people are pulling in different directions for one more reason than before. It's highly divisive. I'm not there to sabotage every company and institution that is openly pro-Brexit but I hope that's the attitude of remainers.
Whilst true its a Non sequiturthe two parties who received the most votes in the GE both promised Brexshit albeit in possibly different forms
They always get the most votes but to suggest that the result indicates that every voter for them support Brexit [ or the lib dems are only unpopular due to their EU stance] is at best disingenuous and at worst total BS
Ken clarke is a tory MP for example and he voted against A50 - is he and his voters part of your claim ?
Millions of these parties supporters do not agree with their Brexit stance and people vote how they do for a myriad of reasons and not on this one issue
it was GE it was not a referendum on this issue so please stop claiming it was.
I agree its entirely plausible the EU and thew UK will do a fudge deal but that rather depends on how willing both sides are to compromise
Currently I see no indication of this from either side
I think a significant number of people in Europe are now seeing Brexit as an opportunity, and they aren't British. Nice fat agencies to pick up, companies needing offices in Europe, companies needing to recentre industrial operations in Europe, poaching markets from British companies handicapped by the loss of EU status... .
YOU NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED YOU
[quote=Edukator ]Gears on a unicycle?
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FWIW i dont think they want no deal i think they might have actually believed their own hubris
There are at least four ministers that are a perfect fit for that notion. David Davies being just one.
I'm not there to sabotage every company and institution that is openly pro-Brexit but I hope that's the attitude of remainers.
I'm doing my best. I don't think I've bought anything from a company or organisation that supported Brexit in th last year.
Is there a list? Not something I've ever done, but happy to join in.
There is. I'll see if I can find it and post it up.
Link to 200 small business Brexies
Hmm, if I click on that do I give the DT advertising revenue?
And to be fair while you will have a greater efffrct on small businesses, you are more likely to bump into larger Brexy businesses like Dyson, JCB (both of whom had chips on their shoulders about EU regulations) or Wetherspoons (who decided after the event he was in favour of freedom of movement - but he may have changed his mind again, who knows).
Patisserie Valerie is probably also borderline Brexy - but it's also vastly overpriced and not very good, so just avoid on that basis.
Bugger - have definitely given money to Wetherspoons, and I have no defence as I knew he was a Brexiteer. TBH I'm not sure I can swear not to do so in future either (particularly given I have more pressing local reasons to boycott other pub chains).
Thm, you seem to say we can't abandon brexit, and then describe one mechanism by which we can abandon it..,
As no-one can work out how to do it (Tories are nuts and labour completely incoherent) it's not going to happen. Brexit delayed is brexit denied.
Watching our politicians attempting to navigate the choppy waters of Brexit is like watching a gibbon trying to operate the Space Shuttle... Mildly entertaining to begin with but a high chance of a catastrophic outcome.
My money is on the gibbon
@thecaptain you are over complicating it. We can just leave in April 2019, it's really not that complicated, those trying to represent it as such have a remainers agenda. Undoubtably for many that would be a shock but my view is it would be a short sharp one and it would allow us to focus our energies globally. The rest of the world manages just fine not being in the EU, no freedom of movement etc etc. Now politics makes things more didficult, compromises, "transition arrangements" etc etc but we most certainly could just leave.
[quote=jambalaya ]We can just leave in April 2019, it's really not that complicated
Not complicated no, it's just that we'd be completely ****ed in all sorts of ways and not just for the short term. Anybody pretending otherwise has a brexiteers agenda.
The rest of the world manages just fine not being in the EU
The rest of the world hasn't just spent the past 40 years being a part of the EU. And the previous forty millennia being only 26 miles from it.
.
Could you quantify that in terms of GDP growth inflation unemployment and time please.that would be a shock but my view is it would be a short sharp one
that would be a shock but my view is it would be a short sharp one
I recall that a previous Conservative government tried to use the "Short, sharp, shock" to "fix" problems with youth justice. It was utterly disastrous then, and it will doubtless be another disaster now.
