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so they all gained employment based on the degree they obtained as it was "needed"? you sure you want to argue this?you might not like some, but there is a need
There is not a need for 50% of people to have degrees and there is certainly not the need for the numbers within specific degrees - how many media studies graduates work in media? see also marine biologist, forensic science, games design , sports science and well pretty much any degree you choose really
So you want some kind of planning system where there is a 1:1 correlation between course places and vacancies relating to said course? Fire up the Tardis…
Students Europe you say
Funny headline.
She wants to work [b]FOR[/b] the EU, not [b]IN[/b] the EU.
The EU institutions might want to, in the parlance of our country these days, "employ one of their own people".
Also, University education is where you are taught to think for yourself, and in a critical manner, regardless of the subject. Yes, it should be done at an earlier age but the current setup doesn't encourage it.
Thinking critically, and for yourself, is not something the Tories want to happen as they won't come off well.
odd story, the Express stating the obvious, you aren't an EU national so no point applying to work for the EU. oh sorry i forgot we're British and we're special!
[quote=kelvin ]So you want some kind of planning system where there is a 1:1 correlation between course places and vacancies relating to said course? Fire up the Tardis…
NO i simply was pointing out how the claim was incorrect.
I assume as you chose to draw a straw man rather than refute my argument you have nothing much to counter the point with.
If your point is that we have too many people on some courses, and not enough on others, that will always be true. It can be fixed with a Tardis though… so crack on.
see also marine biologist, forensic science, games design , sports science and well pretty much any degree you choose really
Demand for all will have changed greatly between people starting and finishing those courses… for example demand (need) for games designers has gone up, for forensic sciences has gone down (first a booming industry, second an area receiving major cuts in last few years).
[quote=kimbers ]“By 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers; 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves,” he said.
Wish dead those who dont share your views.
Stay classy remoaners
not what they said
Kelvin here it is again
you might not like some, but there is a need
so they all gained employment based on the degree they obtained as it was "needed"? you sure you want to argue this?
Do you want to argue this as so far you have danced around the point i made and not directly addressed it
Either argue we[society] truly need all those degrees with reference to their employment outcomes that required said degrees in said field or accept i had a point. Its not even controversial and it is true many many degrees neither lead to employment in that area nor do they lead to jobs that require degrees. Glance at graduate employment rates will tel you that.
I would be delighted to see what % of games designers get a job in the industry no university i contacted - though it was 7 years ago- was able to provide this figure. It certainly wont be a double figure %
So either address the points I am making or we can have no debate.
Junkyard - lazarusThere is not a need for 50% of people to have degrees and there is certainly not the need for the numbers within specific degrees - how many media studies graduates work in media? see also marine biologist, forensic science, games design , sports science and well pretty much any degree you choose really
Still literally nothing to do with the actual point though
Some people will do degrees, and find demand lower than expect when they leave.
Some fields will find a shortage of graduates.
1) can be fixed with Tardis
2) not every graduate will end up in career directly relating to their degree
I'm going with 2 always being true, no matter how many people go to University.
None of this related to double whammy of less rest of world students and leaving the EU though, as Northwind points out.
Stay classy remoaners
Coming from one of the classiest posters STW has ever had. 😆
1) can be fixed with Tardis
We probably need more people signing up to do a degree in science fiction then
so they all gained employment based on the degree they obtained as it was "needed"? you sure you want to argue this?
No one wants to argue this, except you.
You know your strawman will always be false, and I've even pointed out one obvious reason why.
Face palm @ kelvin Did i miss your pervasive and powerful use of stats on games degrees leading to jobs in the are and proving we need them?
PS please google straw man so you dont repeat the mistake and keep looking foolish
Still literally nothing to do with the actual point though
Well I started by quoting someone so someone made a point somewhere
As for the "actual debate"* I am leaving that to those who know. Clearly me debating this with you is a situation where i sit and listen as you are way more informed than me.
* Its not like STW does not have more than one issue going on within a thread
I originally questions whether there was a need for all degrees
I still maintain there is not and have explained the metrics for this decision.
On the subject of straw men Wurzel gummage died recently seriously surprised there want a thread about it
mikey74 - Member
Also, University education is where you are taught to think for yourself, and in a critical manner, regardless of the subject. Yes, it should be done at an earlier age but the current setup doesn't encourage it.
I wish. Students today seem over taught - when I through questions into the graduate intake interviews that are say simple project management cloaked in something else, it both amazing and sadly predictable how few and which ones can answer. Interestingly it's the old school ivory towers graduates or people who were on the tools before their degrees that do better.
Junkyard - lazarusWell I started by quoting someone so someone made a point somewhere
Nah, Ninfan threw in a random nonsequitor about UK students into a discussion of overseas students because he didn't understand the issue, or possibly because he wanted to distract from it.
(it's the EU thread, no matter how badly brexit goes I'm reasonably sure UK students will still be allowed to go to UK universities)
Are you sure? Boris will probably suggest that isn't going to happen without stably strong leadership shortly.
I dont read his bits so missed that he was the start of itNinfan threw in a random nonsequitor about UK students into a discussion of overseas students because he didn't understand the issue, or possibly because he wanted to distract from it
Sorry
Sorry
It's too late. 🙁
You're dead to me...for now.
[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/councillor-nick-harrington-suspended-from-warwick-district-council-offensive-tweet-ireland_uk_59185613e4b00f308cf5d579 ]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/councillor-nick-harrington-suspended-from-warwick-district-council-offensive-tweet-ireland_uk_59185613e4b00f308cf5d579[/url]
Nice to see a Tory revealing there true colours.
So you don't use your degree in the field you graduated in. But you still learned a lot of life skills and above all how to learn, assimilate and apply what you learned. It teaches you a rigor that will serve you well in anything (perhaps everything) you do.
You share a campus with young people around the world, get invited to a sort of barbie with a whole sheep on a spit oraganised by the Iranians, share a bed with exotic members of the opposite sex ( or the same if you prefer), try to explain socialism to Americans and capitalism to communists, raise money for charities you don't give a damn about just for the craic, have discussions about appropriate us of street furniture with the feds while doing pull ups on a lamp post, marry a girl with father from a place that starts with an L but is pronounced W... .
That campus just got smaller and less colourful.
Great post Edukator.
I dont disagree that most folk will have a wonderful time at univeristy - they would if they pissed off travelling for the same time frame - not sure which changed me most [ did the travelling first FWIW] - and these days that is a much cheaper option
Its horrible scenario as it is such a high level of debt that is not very likely to lead to employment in that field nor a graduate level job for so many - due to the high numbers attending, the types of courses, and the lack of employment opportunities post degree
I lament that we are in this scenario and i have to talk like this but its really not worth everyone doing a degree , not for them nor for society, just because its a right good laugh.
Has the Eurozone imploded yet?
two years ago DD
Week next Tuesday, happens like easter now. It will be along again shortly.
Ok cheers guys.
What about Merkel? Has she gone into political oblivion yet? (Y'know, because of the refugee crisis...)
Think she is doing stand up at Burnley WMC next Tuesday too.
Haha, Merkel's CDU has just beaten the ruling SPD in the Federal Elections of NRW. Seen as a barometer for the upcoming German election, things are looking promising for a continuation of the status quo.
And that mad pro-EU French fellow - from the family that run that big chain of Cash&Carrys - Makro. He didn't go and win an election did he?
so trump soon to be impeached, europe looking more united
just brexit that stands out as the decades biggest mistake.....
No...Austria. They went full-on nazi didn't they?
And the Dutchies - didn't Wilders have a landslide victory?
close, but dissapointingly for the rightwingers, they didnt go full nazi, this time
Any leavers care to comment?
Seems to have gone quiet.
They're waiting for June 8th so they can all start chanting "we won you lost ner ner ner".
some surprise that. This was one of the obvious things that is going to happen.
Just thought I'd drop into the mix that Churchill thought that greater European integration and the element of shared sovereignty that went with it was a good thing. From a speech by Chris Patten. By a Tory about a Tory, rather interestingly they've not always been utterly bonkers, just our hard luck the bonkers ones appear to have taken over...
In 1950 Robert Schuman made his proposal for pooling French and German coal and steel production under a supranational authority. In the Commons debate that followed, Churchill said this:
"We are asked in a challenging way: 'are you prepared to part with any degree of national sovereignty in any circumstances for the sake of a larger synthesis ?' …The Conservative and Liberal Parties say, without hesitation, that we are prepared to consider, and if convinced to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty, provided that we are satisfied with the conditions and safeguards…[We] declare that national sovereignty is not inviolable, and that it may be resolutely diminished for the sake of all men in all the lands finding their way home together."
In a speech to the Congress of Europe two years before, in 1948, he had observed that although "closer political unity…involves some sacrifice or merger of national sovereignty" such a sacrifice might be viewed as "the gradual assumption by all the nations concerned of that larger sovereignty which can alone protect their diverse and distinctive customs and characteristics of their national traditions."
In other words, Churchill advocated both the integrity of the nation state and the need to share sovereignty the better to protect it and to promote its interests.
[url= http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-02-191_en.htm ]Full speech here[/url] Given in 2002
IMO Brexit has happened not because those who voted for it have any good reasons, but more because those who see the value of the EU (including people like me who've worked and lived in Europe, the saner elements of UK government (most MPs infact) and the EU institutions and figureheads themselves have utterly failed to sell its benefits and explain the deal in terms of what we give away in order to gain these benefits. Hence we've been comprehensively beaten by Far Right bluster and propaganda... the man on the street has no proper argument to counter it...
IMO Brexit has happened not because those who voted for it have any good reasons, but more because those who see the value of the EU (including people like me who've worked and lived in Europe, the saner elements of UK government (most MPs infact) and the EU institutions and figureheads themselves have utterly failed to sell its benefits and explain the deal in terms of what we give away in order to gain these benefits
People aren't stupid
They see cadburys etc. close a factory in England, dismantle the production line and move it to Poland, making the same things then shipping them here in a wagon - and you expect them not to be pissed at that? You think that politicians can spin their way out of that?
They see cadburys etc. close a factory in England, dismantle the production line and move it to Poland, making the same things then shipping them here in a wagon - and you expect them not to be pissed at that? You think that politicians can spin their way out of that?
and leaving the EU stops that how?
People aren't stupid
Are you sure?
and leaving the EU stops that how?
Well, I'm sure most of us could articulate the many reasons why companies might be more likely to relocate after we leave, but few could say why it might stop it happening, unless the goods made are only bought by the people inside our new tiny market.