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Still the EU
yeah just look at May using brussles bureaucrats as enemies of the people yesterday
jingoism is a powerful tool
EU festering wound
&
Why does it not apply to people like Farage and other educated politicians who dislike the EU?
I'm sure they will when the coffee is smelt, but for now the blinkers are on & the blame ie being proportioned elsewhere..
#blamegame..
🙄
Ok. There is a single euro rate set by the ECB, but I get your point regarding the credit risk spread between Greece and Germany though.The Euro doesn't have the same interest rate, it doesn't have an interst rate because there are no Euro bonds and interest rates are fixed by central banks and private banking institutions.Germany and Greece, same Euro, now check the interest rates in those two countries. And therein lies one of the problems. The poorest countries pay more for money which makes them poorer. And Germany still refuses Euro bonds.
An interesting point and one that I have read conflicting views on is whether Germany benefit from being in a currency with weaker members as it keeps the curreny weak. If it still had the DEM would it be strong and therefore make it's exports more expensive?
The euro, not the EU
Which we weren't in.
Pretty big thing that people seem to keep forgetting.
If it still had the DEM would it be strong and therefore make it's exports more expensive?
Yes.
Meanwhile some countries suffer because they need to devalue their currency but can't as Germany (and others) pull it up.
etc. etc. There is no argument for leaving the EU which couldn't be applied to the Union. Where does it stop?
To me part of the issue is this, power IMO should be devolved to the lowest appropriate level. There are things that are best handled by a street or by a ward, and they should have the power to decide on parks, benches, parking etc etc. Then there are things that are better at a higher level schools, doctors, and as you go up the tree you get to defence to environmental standards etc.
Those calling for a break up are simply demand more paperwork, more red tape. The bonfire of regulations won't happen, the regulations will be those that benefit those writing them and there will be no oversite.
No responce to my calculation that €100bn to cover our "budget liabilities till 2020" is £510m+ per week ? (Note I excluded the MEP pensions from my calc). Seems the EU is a lot more expensive than even Leave said ?
The Oil industry isn't on its knees its simply adjusted investment downwards based on the oil price, at 100 there is more oil worth extracting than at 55. It's just like banking responsing to the new regulations making numerous business lines unattractive hence the substantial layoffs.
Nothing jingoistic about standing up for Britain, that's the PMs job and a clear point of differentiation with Corbyn who has spent his life voting against the Government including the Labour Government. Junker and FAZ's intervention is a massive boost to May who was already riding high on a wave of support
May's voting record is far more pro-EU than Corbyn's.
I don't think that makes either of them more or less likely to "stand up for Britain", because it all depends on whether you consider the EU to be of benefit to Britain, no?
As for ongoing payments and outstanding obligations/liabilities on withdrawal not being the same thing, anyone with a mortgage probably understands that.
power IMO should be devolved to the lowest appropriate level
Quite. And environmental legislation that potentially costs businesses but benefits the whole planet should clearly be made planet-wide. Well, we don't have a planet-wide legislature, so the EU is the next best thing.
No response to my calculation that €100bn to cover our "budget liabilities till 2020" is £510m+ per week ? (Note I excluded the MEP pensions from my calc). Seems the EU is a lot more expensive than even Leave said ?
It is worrying that a team of senior politicians and staff on the leave team did not have a good grasp on the level of involvement/integration that the UK currently has with the EU?
Is that what you are looking for? If those numbers we misunderstood that badly by the people tasked with balancing our budgets it is certainly a worry to me...
No response to my calculation that....
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?
grumpysculler - MemberYes.
Meanwhile some countries suffer because they need to devalue their currency but can't as Germany (and others) pull it up.
No mate. We learned from 90's Finland that don't devalue your currency. It is sure way to get mass bankruptcy. That one bad decision still affects our economical situation, so not a good thing. Even those politics who made that decision agrees that it was a huge mistake.
Anyway, as a continental European i think that EU works very well. It has made the whole Europe more stable and strong (heh hehee) and there are no more really poor countries anymore. I'm sad because of brexit and i'm little surprised how hostile some of the posters are. I'm not talking about this forum, but other one (car discussion forum). Maybe there are more hill billies or so? 😀
So tell me, who exactly wants to leave EU? I know that at least London, NI and Scotland are pro-EU. Genuine question.
This forum is broadly quite liberal/left-leaning and dare I say more cultured (!) than average. 'Petrol-heads' tend more towards reading/believing The Sun/Daily Mail's take on the world. Massive generalisations but with quite a lot of truth in them.
I mostly agree with your take on the EU and want to stay, as do most (mostly well-educated/travelled) people I know. I'm in northern England.
Interesting.
Petrolheads vs cyclists = might is right vs let's work it out?
Petrolheads - sit in their little boxes, the world moves around them, amplifying their own status with a touch of the right foot. Status from what you have.
Cyclists - obliged to move through the world, take notice, adapt and integrate with it. Power is directly related to effort put in. Status from what you can do and how you interrelate.
Welsh and European remainer here.
Scots, British and European, living in northern England, well educated, possibly intelligent, fairly affluent, liberal and centre left remainer.
Like cars, particularly open tops, love bikes, cameras, and tools.
Make of that what you will.
I'll be ok whatever happens - that's part of who I am.
been having a think about the idea of negotiations breaking down. and haven't really heard any comments.
Obviously WTO for trade, but what about air travel, or nuclear fuel, medicines, etc, those things that are currently controlled by pan european bodies.
Also as our Trade agreements with Norway, Swiss etc are through the EU, what happens???? Are there negotiations going on now setting up parallel bodies to cover these agencies?????
I loath the crass arrogance, innate sense of superiority and entitlement of the Tories with every fibre of my being. Specifically because of what they uncaringly did to the North of England during the 80's and 90's
But this present shower of *s make Fatcha and chums look like the salvation army.
Their arrogant, confrontational and obnoxious attitude going into this whole process makes me fear the very worst for the outcome. And I'm in absolutely no doubt that exactly the same people who got screwed by the last Tory government are about to be well and truly *ed over by the present catastrophic actions of this one too. I'm also in no doubt that the same people who did very nicely thank you very much last time around will come out of it smelling of roses too, with their power and wealth massively increased, and **** the rest of us!
Something to look forward too eh? 😥
Nothing jingoistic about standing up for Britain
What exactly are you (or the PM) standing up against?
Nothing jingoistic about standing up for Britain
Yes, I agree.
It's exactly how us Remainers feel too.
What exactly are you (or the PM) standing up against?
Specifically a leaked story to the FAZ designed to embarrass the PM and influence the election, secondly the fanciful "exit payment" nonsense from the EU
As for trade agreements with Switzerland and Norway they are both have a big trade surplus with the UK, they will be very keen to try and replicate their current deals. The question for us is whether we want to get a better deal with them than we have already.
Their arrogant, confrontational and obnoxious attitude
@binners you are describing the EU. Read TM's letter, it could not be more open and positive. Look at the EU's responce to our desire to sort EU/UK citizens rights by June - not possible they say 😯 Corbyn thinks its possible immediately he wins the GE, so how come its so difficult for the EU ?
designed
There was no design. She and Davies managed to embarrass themselves all by themselves. Losing control, and Brexiteers are showing every sign that they are.
In short then: we're standing up against foreigners and their dastardly ways.
But that's definitely not jingoistic. 😕
lol at all the Leave 'snowflakes' being 'triggered' by the EU. Will Britain be a 'safe space' once we've left? 😉
Nothing jingoistic about standing up for Britain
Well - standing up for Britain when you could have been standing up for Europe - yes, a little jingoistic.
Mays standing up for what- Her inability to negotiate?
Laughably ironic considering how leaky the Brexiteers of the Tory party are briefing against Hammond or anyone daring to suggest Brexits actually a bit of a stupid idea.
She's pandered to the xenophobes ever since she got the job, who can forget the glory days of 2016, judges were enemies of the people, employers of foreign workers to be named and shamed, schools to report immigrant children.....
.... Maybot is to cowed by the right wing press and the far right of her own party/ukip
She's just too weak to stand up to them so she pulls out the common enemy card.... definitely weak
Huffington Post's Piece on Brexit and Ireland's Approach
The EU is keen to show a united front going into the negotiations, but you don’t have to look too hard for cracks to appear. One country which seems to willing to dampen down the rhetoric and act as a friend to the UK is Ireland.
The Irish Government’s chief whip Regina Doherty described the leak of the May/Juncker dinner as “not helpful” and setting the “wrong tone”.
The only country to share a land border with the UK published its own approach to the Brexit talks this week, and deviated from the Brussels line that there should be no trade talks until the bill is paid.
“In accordance with the phased approach agreed in the EU Negotiation Guidelines, it is therefore likely, once sufficient progress is being made in the withdrawal negotiations, that discussions will then begin in parallel on the scope and shape of the EU’s future relationship with the UK,” reads the document.
Ireland is keen to get a trade deal done and dusted with the UK as soon as possible, as, according to the British Irish Chamber of Commerce, business between the two countries supports 400,000 jobs and generates 60billion.
And far from wishing to punish the UK’s lucrative financial sector – which could drive business to Dublin – the Irish Government recognises that as was as “opportunities in financial services arising from Brexit there are also risks.”
The Irish Government will strive to “maximise any opportunities that might arise” from Brexit, but the tone of the report is very much one of more-of-the-same than slash-and-burn.
I have to say the prospect of Junker's leak backfiring spectacularly to deliver an even larger Tory majority seems to be getting under the skin of some of you Remainers.
A very good friend of mine and strident Remainer has totally switched over Junker's behaviour, he is now re-posting Brexit Central posts on Facebook with pro-Leave views of his own 8)
The Irish view of Brexit....
Well dunno about anyone else but I'll take jambalaya's (probably made-up) mate on Facebook over the Tory's 10 point drop in the polls as evidence of public opinion.
Seems legit.
Funny that, Ireland is one of the countries against which you're particularly bigoted, having described it as "primitve" and "backward" in the past. But hey, you found something supporting your opinion. So, what's this? You're softening your previous standpoint on Ireland?
A very good friend of mine
By his friends, so shall ye judge him.
Well dunno about anyone else but I'll take jambalaya's (probably made-up) mate on Facebook over the Tory's 10 point drop in the polls as evidence of public opinion.
Seems legit.
F it....
I'm sold..!
EU has been clear and the Ireland piece backs it up, one sufficient progress has been made.
DD, I was born in England, and happen to have an Irish name. I have experienced a certain side of the English character, a side i hoped was dead and buried. Sadly it seems i was wrong.
There is an attitude all too common amongst certain sectors of society, an attitude that is being given room to grow again.
Jamba - I don't know if you realise but reasonably affluent and fairly southern (when in Britain) as you are, older rather than younger with all the skewed benefits that entails, and with a good sense of entitlement that keeps coming out, a lot of people (including most northern Brexies) see you and your ilk as the problem, not the solution.
They may well extend that view to me - but at least I act in their interests not just my own.
[i] molgrips - Member [/i]
Nothing jingoistic about standing up for Britain
[i]Well - standing up for Britain when you could have been standing up for Europe - yes, a little jingoistic.[/i]
😆
So a European, standing up for Europe would be, patriotic?
But a Britain standing up for Britain, is "jingoistic".
Another text book example of the intellectually inept left, resorting to slandering those who do not share their ideals.
So, that's really going to assist with the plan to bring the unwashed with you.
Again, the left find it easier to stigmatize and deride those who do not agree with them as "jingoistic". Rather than to really engage.
Go you 😉
stay classy brexies !
do feel free to keep posting up regular updates on THM 😉A very good friend of mine and strident Remainer has totally switched over Junker's behaviour, he is now re-posting Brexit Central posts on Facebook with pro-Leave views of his own
boom-tish!
when pointing out when someone is intellectually inept do be careful to make sure you have understood the difference between slander [ spoken] and libel[ written] as this simple error will somewhat weaken your position on the intellectual high groundAnother text book example of the intellectually inept left, resorting to slandering those who do not share their ideals.
But a Britain standing up for Britain, is "jingoistic".
Depends how you stand up for your country, doesn't it.
May's rant outside no 10 yesterday was jingoistic, for sure.
Text book example in fact.
molgrips - Member
So a European, standing up for Europe would be, patriotic?
But a Britain standing up for Britain, is "jingoistic".
Sounds stupid anyway. May's word were badly chosen (intentionally?) and way too errr.... stupid.
Anyhooo, where is UK going now? No go for integration to the rest of Europe, so which is the direction what UK govt does take?
Well dunno about anyone else but I'll take jambalaya's (probably made-up) mate on Facebook over the Tory's 10 point drop in the polls as evidence of public opinion.
My ex-neighbour, husband of the Professor (ex-nurse) who was awarded the CBE for services for the care of the elderly.
I have seen no such opinion polls but the to be ho est I pay little attention to them, the General Election results will bear me out, it's looking to me more like a 125 seat majority than 100 now
I assumed it was May that leaked the story so she could be outraged - it's her style
[img]the General Election results will bear me out, it's looking to me more like a 125 seat majority than 100 now
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Nothing beautiful about Jamba's prediction, but it's probably a very good one.
A large Tory majority seems more likely as the fortress Britain rhetoric ramps up.