THM - so you agree with me on the other 60%.
No. I can only assume you are playing cougars card. In which case 100%
instead of posting tripe about Africa go and look what the fund involved does and how CDC operates and then come back and make the same post. Then we can see if you are just wrong or not knowingly lying.
NI border still unresolved
If the gov blink 1st on this one (& as thm points out government have made all same mistakes voufarkis made , making it ever more likely). What will the DUP do?
Odds of no deal looking just as likely imho
Also gov's current plans for medicines & pharma make us rule takers in an industry we dominate legislation making, also of note the plan is to pay extra to encourage companies to certify rare & paediatric drugs here that don't have patient numbers to encourage them without incentives, that dividend being chopped ever smaller...
If freedom of movement with the EU is list it will be significantly harder for everyone
But THM has just hired a couple of non-EU employees. Not sure if it is the same couple of non EU employees he was wittering on about last time around....
I’m confident that you have some sick moves or throw some solid shapes ..
Or is it sick shapes and solid moves .. I can never tell.
I have been known to throw some sick at weddings.
Even cougar admits his 10% drop in GDP was BS, sorry sarcasm.
It was never intended as anything else, as would've been blatantly obvious unless you're deliberately trolling or are one of those "thickos" you seem so obsessed with.
Got an example of me deliberately lying yet? An apology will do if you can't find one.
I have been known to throw some sick at weddings.
Curious. Confetti is more traditional.
Is that Ms Victoria Sponge?
Double Choc Chip.
THM:
Are banks likely to move IT operations abroad?
Are banks likely to move IT operations abroad?
Especially retail side a lot has already been offshored/outsourced to save some cash. A cynic might wonder whether there is a link between that and various outages.
Mol. They may do.
The main issues relate to passporting and equivalence. The complexities are such a that different banking functions and relationships are covered by different passports that in turn are treated differently in the cases of passports v equivalence. In the end, this boils down to the legal structure of a banks EU operations (simplifying here) between having a subsidiary or a branch in EU. Someone posted HSBC as an example above. They BS-ed that the bank was moving its EU headquarters to Paris. They are not. They have a subsidiary in Paris which grants then passporting rights whatever the outcome. They simply have to determine who sits where (simplifying again so apologies to any HSBC folk here) . All UK banks have subsidiaries in EU or are setting them up.
You see grown ups really do know how to get on with things and prepare for the worst.
You see grown ups know how to get on with things and prepare for the worst.
Are you this much of a prat at work, or do you save it for us on here?
Just for you bob. You don't pay fees.
It was blatantly obvious, true.
Right, so you were just trolling then.
but you can and do hide behind “mod privilege”
Really? I could, sure. But do? I've always taken great pains to separate my user posts and moderator posts. That's a cheap shot at best.
But, y'know, feel free to cite examples of that behaviour too. Along with where I was deliberately lying, which I'm still waiting for, or a retraction.
I was at a big bank recently, and they have several thousand different banking applications. I don't need to know what they do, often, never mind understand them, so I dunno if any of it needs to be moved or not.
Whether or not they'd still be allowed to support and develop an app from the UK if it does something that it needs to be in the EU for I don't know. Presumably it would have to be hosted in the EU.
rather than clog a thread.
“Quote my (non-existent) source...”
Oh dear. Any minute now he’ll start crying.
Anyway - ‘no deal’ Brexit. Shyte, isn’t it?
I don’t believe it will happen. It’s just a threat that will evaporate and make everybody relieved that the team (yay, go team..) have produced a ‘deal’ which will basically be whatever the EU makes Raab swallow to avoid absolute catastrophe.
Less to do,with apps mol, more to do with whether you are legally able to conduct certain activities from the UK or not. So for example, advising on a deal is treated differently from conducting FX transactions which is treated differently from hedging FX (again a bit of licence here). So depending on what happens to passporting right (Jims point earlier) determines where certain activities can be carried out. But all banks know this and are prepared for each outcome.
As the CEO of Barclays commented, dealing with ring fencing the U.K. bank is more problematic than dealing with Brexit
THM is simply wrong on equivalence and passporting the EU side have made it 100% clear that the HQ., all the computing and the senior staff must be based in the EU and thus under EU law if you want full access to the EU market. The banks all have plans to do so and many are now activating them. They have a choice - remain in the UK and rely on equivalence and passporting which it is by no means certain they will be granted in the form they want and will mean they become marginalised or move to the ~EU
You show in making this basic error how little you really understand.
I have been doing my best to ignore the troll but that distortion of the truth is so blatent
I
Whether or not they’d still be allowed to support and develop an app from the UK if it does something that it needs to be in the EU for I don’t know.
Its a complex subject however at a high level at the minimum you would tend to separate out support and development. As a rough rule you dont want devs with prod access. Sometimes you cant avoid it but generally you can get away with the devs working in a lower environment either with completely faked data or with correctly anonymised data. So it is perfectly possible to do development work for a client which you arent allowed full access to. For critical prod support it gets more messy since sometimes you really do need to be able to see what is happening live but it is fairly rare and you can either work via others/have a specialist team who have been granted better access.
Where I work the vast majority of devs dont have prod access. Think we have over 100 devs including offshore and outsourced people and out of those there is only about 5 of us who have prod access. Even then its read only mostly and whilst there are still some gaps to close its mostly locked down so we cant see any personal identifiers.
Its something which companies, including banks, have been grappling with since at least the millennium bug years. So whilst it would take time to deal with it wouldnt be a show stopper although admittedly it would make it easier to completely offshore it.
They haven't (TJs BS about the EU/HQs/senior staff etc). But feel free to chose which interpretation you prefer. The truth or BS. Freedom of choice is great.
(mol, tbf there were some simplifications ^ but the difference between each passport and each banking activity gets a bit technical (thinks 00s of pages) but fair to assume that TJ is incorrect e.g. Lack of distinction between passporting and equivalence etc.)
The EU's own briefing papers are freely available if you feel the need to falsify TJ's conclusions but experience suggests that this is not necessary.
TJ - you know you are telling THM about his own job, don't you? You must know how that looks...
Oh, btw ‘thm’, they’d never mention it themselves, what with being a bunch of polite level-headed adjudicators and all, but I thought I’d just say...
You need to remember what happened to Fred when he started throwing around unsubstantiated allegations about the (well, one in particular) mods...
Carry on. 🧐
Mol, TJ is free to make things up if he wants, it's a free world and a free forum. Let it be. It's fun to read although a bit worrying for people who are now getting daily overdoses of Brexit BS to scare them rigid. They might not be able to differentiate between the truth and the BS.
the WSJ might help
One key measure: what was expected to be a flood of bankers out of London to continental Europe has turned out to be a trickle. And the ones that are leaving are divided widely among rival cities such as Frankfurt, Paris, Dublin, Milan and Amsterdam...
...The result isn’t the immediate challenge to London that was anticipated (project fear)...
..."The number of bank staff moves out of London so far has been much lower than expected by many,” says Oliver Wagner, managing director of the Association of Foreign Banks in Germany, where Frankfurt was supposed to be a major beneficiary of Brexit.
A forecast of the number of British finance jobs set to disappear by March 2019, when the U.K. leaves the EU, was recently reduced to 5,000 from 10,000 by the Bank of England. That’s about 1% of the people who work in financial services in London.
Mind that 1% flood
Oh, I think we’re all more than capable of recognising BS when we see it... 😁
So which banks have moved hq's and operations from the UK so far? Anybody know why?
Just for you bob. You don’t pay fees.
Well, I smiled at that.
None, Most already have EU subsidiaries. Those that don't have set them up/are setting them up. Personnel movements much less that previous forecasts. "A trickle"
As posted above Barclays publically stated dealing with UK ring fencing is a much bigger challenge:
The Barclays chief executive, Jes Staley, said last year that he saw no reason to shift many British jobs to Europe as a result of Brexit and described the restructuring required leaving the EU as straightforward compared with other challenges faced by the bank.
[inconvenient truths]
BNP Paribas increasing London based staff to take advantage of those confused by the BS bandied around - currently hiring actively in U.K. corporate broking in LONDON 😉
https://www.ft.com/content/704e3752-f90c-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167
Salut igm !
No, you got in wrong. But you are not alone.
We’ve had those discussions. No need to repeat. Others don’t have your privilege. No retraction warranted. Happy to cite privately rather than clog a thread.
Now hang on. Internet arguing aside:
You're making a number of insinuations here about me in public which sully my character. You've called me a liar and accused me of abusing my position as a STW moderator, both of which are the very antithesis of who I am. For all that we may disagree politically you've made this very personal.
For all that we may disagree politically you’ve made this very personal.
Par for the course on this thread, has been for months.
cougar - thats his modus operandi You know the answer - his continual trolling is against STW rules
Molgrips - THM is not a big shot in finance. If he is in banking at all ( which I doubt) He is in a very minor role. I have had discussions with folk ( off forum) who actually do work in finance and they agree with me that his ignorance shows he is not what he pretends to be.
So I am not telling him about his job. I am correcting totally false statements from a troll who pretends he works at a high level in finance when its obvious that actually he doesn't.
It all depends what services the bank operates in and how much of a part of that requires an EU passprt. The passport issue does mean that performing certain functions can no longer be performed in the UK so you need to setup those function in Europe. For big multi national banks that is not really a big deal as they already have offices in Paris, Frankfrt etc,. so just expand in those and lose a 1,000 jobs in UK.
It has no bearing on IT jobs as they can be done anywhere as they are already, the only differences we see are in certain countries that have different regulators and want infrastructure to be in country (China) or maintain data within country (Switzerland). Not really an EU thing.
Has anyone considered that Teamchewmoredick is in fact an Argue Bot designed by STW to get the clicks up?
The reason that he/they disappeared recently is due to the fact that with the web “update” STW simply couldn’t make the Argue Bot function work.
After all , no one would spend all day on here arguing with people who you profess to agree with when you could be doing something better with your family.
TJ – you know you are telling THM about his own job, don’t you? You must know how that looks…
THM has been telling me how to teach for years, I thought he was an awesome geography teacher!!
Thius is the reality. Not THMs wishlist fantasy. Passporting is almost certainly gone, equivalence is a very poor second and wis granted as a gift from the EU not a right. From the indy:
The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier made it clear on Monday that, when the UK leaves the single market, financial services firms based in Britain will lose their “passporting” rights.
“On financial services, UK voices suggest that Brexit does not mean Brexit. Brexit means Brexit, everywhere,” Mr Barnier told the Centre for European Reform.
The reality is that banks gave up on hopes of the UK retaining the passport some time ago.
When it became clear that Theresa May was not going to try to keep the UK as an effective member of the single market after Brexit it was obvious that the passport would ultimately go.
What Mr Barnier’s words do is puncture the belief that something called “equivalence” will come to the rescue.
<h2>What is equivalence?</h2>
It is short for “regulatory equivalence”.
This is the idea that if the UK financial regulator adopts the same regulatory standards as the pan-European financial regulator the European regulator will continue to allow UK-based financial firms to operate as they do now in Europe.
Mr Barnier’s words suggest this isn’t going to be acceptable to Europe.
<h2>How much will this cost the financial sector?</h2>
The EU is a huge market of 500 million people and some 22 million firms, so it’s clearly problematic if UK-based financial firms find it more difficult to offer them services.
The Financial Conduct Authority regulator says that around 5,500 financial firms in the UK currently have EU passporting rights and the British Bankers Association says UK financial firms exported over £20bn of services in 2014.
The Financial Times has https://www.ft.com/content/cf6865c5-7916-3709-b9a7-05b20f4e345 c">reported that some in the City estimate that as much as 20 per cent of UK-based firms’ investment and capital markets revenue (around £9bn) could be disrupted if the UK loses the EU passport.
After all , no one would spend all day on here arguing with people who you profess to agree with when you could be doing something better with your family.
Since facebook trending has gone people need somewhere to argue and ignore their life. Might as well be here
Mol you will be relieved to know that there is an alternative explanation. So you can believe me and the CEO of Barclays or the above.
as mentioned in email, you just have to understand what they are doing structurally and why. Kerley alludes to the points that I made (but without reference to subsidiaries, branches etc) and reaches the same, conclusion as me. Others remain totally confused. You choose whose advice you wish to take..
FWIW, we start the process with 100% equivalence obviously, not that this really matters for reasons above.
Have a nice day.
yours a 15 year old, sexually repressed, robotic teamchewmoredick! How's that for personal?!?
Ting is why would there be an exodus of bankers leaving the country,when we haven’t yet left.
If there’s the fabled hard Brexit then the situation will probably be very different and the EU can change the rules as they go, the current playing field isn’t guaranteed.
maintain data within country
Not really an EU thing.
I wouldn't assume at this stage that change isn't on the way here… and that data may well need to stay within the EU for certain sectors soon.
I don’t know, people get pulled up for generalising about racist gammons or anti-democratic remoaners, or pulled up for going after individuals.
It’s like the Brexit thread can’t win... 😋
Brexit itself on the other hand is a case of self harm and an intervention is necessary even if that restricts the country’s ability to do something stupid. You wouldn’t stand by and let a person self harm would you? Or would you?
I think Cougar if you are going to moan about/moderate THMs personal slurs on you then you have to put your mod hat on and moderate the personal slurs on him/dickens/ninfan etc.
I like reading different opinions- the desire on this thread to bully/ argue out anyone who disagrees is daft. Calling someone a troll is no better than trolling.
Isn’t it amazing how much spare time a high-flying city notable has, in his busy and important schedule, to be able to spend it wittering away like a riposte-ignoring, fact-twisting, lying troll on an internet website?
Unless of course, he’s not that at all, but maybe a 15-year-old (you know the rest). 😘
PS: presumably, he’s getting the emails prior to the inevitable hammer. I know I used to!
What I don't understand about THM's argument is how banks can be prepared when we still don't know what Brexit looks like.
+1 for the insult-slinging to stop.
Par for the course on this thread, has been for months
Not really. Been a while since we had someone call someone a liar.
What I don’t understand about THM’s argument is how banks can be prepared when we still don’t know what Brexit looks like.
You look at all the likely impacts and plan for them. The very likely ones you take action on already, such as setting up the roles in EU countries that won't be able to be performed in UK. It is just headcount after all and large companies are expanding and retracting continuously within different countries.
The bank business depends on it so they take it seriously. If only the government had the same approach.
Inconvenient truths part 47
<span>But Barclays, which is less UK focused than its rival, also warned that if Brexit negotiations end with the UK's financial sector losing 'passporting' rights, it would require the bank to make 'alternative licensing arrangements in EU jurisdictions' where it operates.</span>
<span>However, the European Central Bank has warned that Britain would not be able to access the passporting system without remaining a member of the single market and abiding by its rules, which includes the free movement of people.</span>
The British lender ( Barclays) said in July that it was talking to Irish regulators about extending its activities in Dublin in preparation for when Britain leaves the EU in March 2019.
Staley said the bank will relicense all of its branches in Europe so they become part of their Irish business but they are having to make these changes without clear direction from London or Brussels on what they need to do.
Nearly all Banks seem to be planning at least some movement of staff to EU.
Except;
Julius Baer is opening three new UK offices as it looks to the bank for wealthy residents spooked by Brexit
Looks like a growth area...
How delicious TJ relying on two year old Daily Mail articles to make his point.
Neither the mail or two years old but never mind. ~Accuracy is not highly valued on here. Its a financial service trade paper from recently the one I didn't link to
You linked to this article - This is Money is the financial section of the Mail website and the date on it is 29 July 2016
This is how they describe themselves on their twitter feed
Top articles, advice and opinion from the team at the UK's best financial website and money channel of <s>@</s><b>MailOnline</b>. Also on <span class="invisible"> http://www.</span><span class="js-display-url">facebook.com/thisismoney</span><span class="tco-ellipsis"><span class="invisible"> </span></span>
Interesting - the page I looked at had todays date on it - that suckered me. Apologies.
the other piece is from a trade paper which is the one I meant was not from the mail - its obvious the first one was.
still makes my point. Passporting is ruled out by Barnier and Equivalence even if granted is very much second best. Makes THM look all the more ridiculous when this information was actually in the public domain 2 years ago. Plenty of other quotes from Barnier stating things that show THMs pstatements are simply false.
~"
“On financial services, UK voices suggest that Brexit does not mean Brexit. Brexit means Brexit, everywhere,” Mr Barnier said in a major speech to a think-tank.
“The legal consequence of Brexit is that the UK financial service providers lose their EU passport. This passport allows them to offer their services to a market of 500 million consumers and 22 million businesses.”
The pronouncement is bad news for the City, where over 5,400 British firms rely on passporting rights to bring in £9bn in revenue every year to Britain. The British Bankers’ Association (BBA) has said the loss of passporting would be “disruptive, costly and time-consuming”.
It also comes the same day as the EU announces where it will relocating the European Banking Authority, an EU agency currently based in London, after Brexit.
The chief negotiator said the EU might judge some UK rules as “equivalent” to EU passporting rights, but ruled out the City of London having access to EU financial markets under the same passporting deal as now.
Same as the banks moving operations into the EU. Its happening, the facts are out there but THM denies it.
Plus loads more if you want to google it.
Fake news, though, no?
Not really breaking my resolution not to read or comment on political threads, but I’d like to put this ‘out there’.
Re, the personal slanging match of last evening:
@THM. In my opinion, you (we) need to be an extra bit more considerate when dealing with cougar / drag or one of the other mods. The reason is that it is quite easy to create the impression that they are mixing their roles and using their ‘position’ unfairly. As the likes of Trump have shown, truth is a flexible concept. A lot of people accept a general impression as the one inviolable truth. If you bring mod-dom into it, you are potentially trying to insure yourself against the ban hammer as any ban then can be made to look like sour grapes. I hope you haven’t been trying to play this game as, frankly, that is a bit shit.
@TJ. Posting up and basically asking cougar to ban THM is also a bit shit. It also puts cougar in an invidious position (see above).
@TJ and THM. You two really need to get a room. Or a boxing ring organised. Whatever suits. It is clearly personal to a greater degree than is ‘healthy’ between you two. My guess is that you are both wound up by ‘who’ you perceive the other one to be. By all means have a verbal scrap on here, or a physical scrap if you can organize it, but I feel neither of you should drag the mods into it (unless you are reporting real abuse through the proper channels).
@mods who also post as ‘users’. I don’t like suggesting this, but are you able to start each post with a quick indicator as to which ‘mode’ you are in (I know I’ve seen you do this on occasion). It would hopefully lead to more playing of the ball and not the man.
I don’t think any of the above is unreasonable, but please feel free to slice me up if you think it is........
Fair enough danny. I will go back to ignoring him but its not always easy. I ain't really wound up by him tho - I am laughing at him 🙂
Good post Danny but the Mod part is usually simple to work out what stance it’s coming from.
I would never rate a company who described themselves thus:
Top articles, advice and opinion from the team at the UK’s best financial website and money channel of <s>@</s><b>MailOnline</b>. Also on <span class=”invisible”>http://www.</span><span /a> class=”js-display-url”><span class="skimlinks-unlinked">facebook.com/thisismoney</span><span</span>co-ellipsis”><span class=”invisible”> </span></span>
Ok guys, so you aren’t going to stop needling each other, then?🙂
Well, try to keep it clean at least? Hit above the belt, no elbows, no biting etc?
That’s it for me in any case. Engaging though the fighting is (in a prurient sort of way), this is a thread about politics first and foremost. Seeing as how no one on here, ever, ever budges an inch, trolls stoke the fire and it always descends into a slanging match, I can’t really see any point.
the other piece is from a trade paper which is the one I meant was not from the mail – its obvious the first one was.
Always best to stop digging, your other post pretty much mirrors the wording in this Irish Times article, so I think it is safe to assume that was your source, which is certainly not a trade paper.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">teamhurtmore
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Member</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">Just for you bob. You don’t pay fees.
</div>
Well consider this. You’re fond of grown ups. What grown ups don’t do it throw their toys out the pram, disappear off the forum for months then come back and behave like a petulant child.
if you’ve got a point to make, make it in a way that drives the discussion. We all know what you’re doing and the point you’re trying to make with the “thickos” and “grown ups” jibes. Try and make them in a less childish manner. If you’re half as smart as you suggest you are then you shouldn’t need to resort to playground tactics. If you don’t agree with your audience then rise above us.
Seeing as how no one on here, ever, ever budges an inch, trolls stoke the fire and it always descends into a slanging match, I can’t really see any point.
Once a thread is over 10 pages not much is ever going to come of it though. Everyone has said what they think and then just argues based on that. Anything past the tenth page is pretty much circular 'discussion'
But Mrs May also warns she will not "give in" to those calling for a second referendum on the withdrawal agreement.
She says it would be a "gross betrayal of our democracy and... trust".
Not quite sure how letting the people have their say is betrayal of democracy I’d have thought what she’s doing is more a betrayal of democracy.
I wonder if she’ll do a Cameron if there’s a no deal.
(IMHO I can’t see a no deal as it pretty much chucks everything and everyone under the bus but there’s no telling how far these clowns will put party and self before country.)
It's not true that people don't budge. At least two people on here have adjusted their positions and have become at least more sympathetic (if not supportive) of the leavers cause and depressed and saddened at the remainders response.
Thanks for the post bob. Naturally, I took the liberty of reviewing your recent posts to see the standards that you aspire to and demand of others: "prat", a silly meme and a series of emojis. No wonder the word "childish" springs so easily to mind. Playground tactics indeed.
As for toys, prams and petulance, consider those who fought a bad campaign, lost a vote, refuse to accept the result and now rely on gross distortions of the truth, intimidation and bullying to suppress the voices of those who beat them. Here and in the real world. So you appear to have missed an important accusation off your charge sheet: hypocrisy.
Finished Peston's WTF in the rain two day ago. Like the author, occasionally interesting and entertaining, generally disheveled and weak in economics. But three of the better quotes from someone who has also been able to adapt rather than rely on petulance and lies:
But we ignore at our supreme peril the fact it was the government and almost the entire establishment, including the seemingly reluctant leadership of the Labour Party, that lost the argument. It was the official position of the British state to remain in the EU, and the people said no. That cannot be brushed aside as just one of those things. The Leave side may have conducted itself in a tricksy and mendacious way, but it is to patronise our countrymen in a disgusting way to say they did not know what they were voting for...
...And, of course, the people were right and Osborne and Cameron were wrong, in that they grossly exaggerated the immediate damage to our living standards of Brexit, if not the likely long-term costs; the increase in uncertainties, costs and frictions for our companies in their trade with the rest of the EU, the most important external market for our goods and services, is making Britain poorer but slowly and cancerously, not with a bang...
...In other words, we may have ourselves to blame that the 52% had become so despondent about their circumstances and prospects that the tantalising promise of taking back control, made by the leading Brexiteers, was simply too good to miss.
Well said Robert.
Once a thread is over 10 pages not much is ever going to come of it though. Everyone has said what they think and then just argues based on that. Anything past the tenth page is pretty much circular ‘discussion’
Yep but i think/use this thread to keep up with Brexit bollocks and sometimes you do get real insight from people who’s livelyhoods are directly affected.
I’ve definately learnt stuff from it and dug deeper into things from articles and other links people have posted.
You do seem mainly focused on blame for the result though THM. I don't doubt that remain failed. This is clear, we know this. You don't have to keep going on about it.
However I do take issue with one of.your points. I do not think the British people understood what they were voting for, because a) huge numbers of people don't indeunders what the EU does anyway and b) there was no plan so we had nothing to compare against.
Given the ballot was so abstract, it should not have been acted upon so hurriedly. Because there was no plan before the ballot, a plan should have been devised BEFORE A50, not after it. That was idiocy.
So what else can we do apart from point that out?
As for toys, prams and petulance, consider those who fought a bad campaign, lost a vote, refuse to accept the result and now rely on gross distortions of the truth, intimidation and bullying to suppress the voices of those who beat them. Here and in the real world.
This is exactly what Farage said he would do if he lost. That he would never stop fighting.... the only issue now is the “outsiders” are now facing responsibility and a stronger attack. Even at that the remain response is still in coordinated and poorly executed. There is no remain champion to focus on yet and people are angrily acting out.
I have yet to see a comprehensive leave plan detailing clearly defined objectives, timelines, expected costs and metrics for his success will be measured for any kind of objective anslysud. Mind you this is not often produced by the standard shower that are on charge anyway.
the response had not been dignified but it seems to match the incompetence of the execution...
May is now saying " no compromise on Chequers" which makes no deal almost certain as the chequers plan simply is not possible or plausible. Which bit of " the four freedoms are indivisible" does she not understand? Why can't she stick to the agreements already reached on NI?
Mefty - no it was a trade paper.
Anyway - the point still stands. Passporting is ruled out, equivalence might be granted in some areas but is a very poor second. Banks have already moved large numbers of jobs, plans to move a lot more are there
…In other words, we may have ourselves to blame that the 52% had become so despondent about their circumstances and prospects that the tantalising promise of taking back control, made by the leading Brexiteers, was simply too good to miss.
I’m not quite sure how I’m to blame, I pay my taxes and attempted to vote for parties that don’t shaft people other than that What else should I do ?
The good news is that having watched the Government concede to the EU on every single point in the talks so far as the Brexiteers have been exposed as conmen who promised something they could never deliver, enough of the 52% no longer back brexit.
Which means we can ditch it & get on with fixing the actual issues they face: reversing the damage of austerity & addressing the inequalities that divide the country.
The Leave side may have conducted itself in a tricksy and mendacious way, but it is to patronise our countrymen in a disgusting way to say they did not know what they were voting for…
Yes. They ‘knew’ what they were voting for. The mendacious tricks offered by the Brexiters.
How does your accusation of mendacity in the argumrent of the Brexiters, that everything will be fine, square with your claim that the argument of the Remainers, that it will be a catastrophe, was wrong?
I’m not quite sure how I’m to blame, I pay my taxes and attempted to vote for parties that don’t shaft people other than that What else should I do ?
I don't see him as referring to "us", but rather to people like him who perpetuated the political game and ignored the actual real people that were affected.
We shall see woppit. So far the "it will be alright camp" have been more accurate than "project fear". Far more accurate. As have those who note that numbers of bankers relocating is around 1-2% - as the WSJ put it, "a trickle" and that banks are fully prepared for the ending of passporting, if that is indeed what happens.
Another Peston quote:
But it is damaging to the constitutional tradition that the Treasury and the whole civil service should be politically impartial that it lent its name to forecasts that were highly speculative; the Treasury seemed to be the politically malleable tool of a chancellor desperate to keep the UK in the EU. And, perhaps worse still, when the forecasts turned out to be so wrong, the Treasury looked incompetent. I cannot imagine why the then permanent secretary, Sir Nick (now Baron) Macpherson gambled the Treasury’s authority in that way.
THM:
Do you think the loss of passporting will have a long term negative implication for London as a financial centre? In ten or twenty years?
So far the “it will be alright camp” have been more accurate than “project fear”.
Both claims are about what will happen after Brexit. This has not happened yet so there is no confirmation available either way. You are trying to justify your prediction of the future by referring to those future circumstances as if they are the present.
There is just, so far, some movement by entities trying to predict what the situation might be.
You’ve had this pointed out to you before in this thread but seem unable to take it on board, for some peculiar reason.
My own view is that a deal will be made and it will involve the U.K. having to accept the EU endgame. May (if she hasn’t been replaced by Boris ‘Pound Shop Trump’ Johnson by then) will try to spin it as a heroic saving of the country from the catastrophe of crashing out, as currently being amplified by Raab’s instruction sheet on how to cope with just that. This will be facilitated by stretching out the timeline to a final decision by as long as is needed.
If Johnson does take over, we are looking at being in real peril. He will have to kowtow to the likes of Mogg and Redwood or risk losing his new position and given his habit of jumping on any bandwagon that seems to facilitate his ambition to rule, this puts him in a position of status without power.