Forum menu
Click "Labour" in the [url= http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/05/britain-s-eu-referendum ]Economist poll[/url] of polls and I can't see any evidence to support people voting out to spite Cameron.
The main difference I see is young and old with those who are still economically active voting in and the retired voting out.
Playing the man again also I see,
OH THE IRONY ....Have you come to terms with the fact that immigrant are net beneficiaries yet or do you need to insult me some more before you can handle the truth?
What a random post @ernie, have a look at Kahn's victory which refekcts the natural Labour bias in London. That shows the size of the personal swing to Boris.
@Edukator look at the majority voting Leave amongst iunskilled, low skilled and unemployed. Its their jibs amd wages most at risk, they are voting based upon their personal experience
Bring on a general election the sonner the better, it was always my view a GE whilst Corbyn was leader was optimal and won't last till 2020
No it shows that stupid folk vote are more likely to be racist and racist folk are more likely to vote leave
I can prove this with stats and evidence if they have started to have an impact on your thinking?
Have they ?
Xenophobic rather than racist. And maybe just nationalistic rather than xenophobic. Or am I being too charitable?
jambalaya - MemberWhat a random post @ernie
No, it was a very focused post. It was focused on your claim that Boris Johnson is "fabulously popular".
I just thought it would fair to point out that in Jambaland "fabulously popular" means 3.06% more popular than your opponent.
I suspect the in the world which everyone else inhabits "fabulously popular" doesn't mean 3.06% more popular than your opponent.
I think that to be honest Jamba has a point - in electing Johnson a majority of Londoners voted for policies that were clearly ridiculous and relied upon promises that they knew would not be kept. Why?
have a look at Kahn's victory which refekcts the natural Labour bias in London.
Eh? What does the philandering ex-IMF head have to do with Labour in London?
I think that to be honest Jamba has a point - in electing Johnson a majority of Londoners voted for policies that were clearly ridiculous and relied upon promises that they knew would not be kept.
If that's directed at me I wasn't commenting on why a majority of Londoners voted a certain way. I was pointing out what [i]"fabulously popular"[/i] means.
Indeed, and I suggested that the reason that so many voted against their own best interests could be that Johnson was personally popular.
To British Commonwealth Citizen, if you vote to remain you destroy your own future.
You have practically No Chance whatsoever to get a job in UK/EU, especially when the employers have more lame excuses to reject your application for job by citing EU rules. It is already happening as some of you have found out the hard way.
Yes I noticed your earlier post in which you agreed that Johnson was fabulously popular.
But neither you nor jambalaya have explained why fabulously popular means winning by a margin of 3.08%. Which btw is the lowest margin that anyone has ever won the London mayoral contest.
You could in fact say, quite correctly, that in 2010 London had the least popular mayor ever elected.
I think I've explained fairly clearly how a person could - hypothetically - win by a small margin whilst themselves being personally popular. One could imagine any number of people who are very popular but who would not be elected to public office - Jeremy Clarkson, Graham Norton, Nigella Lawson?
Ok
[No it shows that stupid folk vote are more likely to be racist and racist folk are more likely to vote leave]
Really?
I've never posted anything thing on this thread as its a discussion that will always have the for and against and both will blindly argue their point.
I'm 100% out and I'm not stupid or racist.
I'm 100% out and I'm not stupid or racist.
I did not say all out voters were racist and stupid i said stupid folk are more likely to be racist and racist folk are more likely to vote leave
Which part of this do you think is untrue?
I've crossed my box ,licked the envelope and posted it off.
IN have got a least one vote.
To British Commonwealth Citizen, if you vote to remain you destroy your own future.You have practically No Chance whatsoever to get a job in UK/EU.
There are two "commonwealth citizens" * who work at one of the same places I do. I can guarantee that they would find this Jambafact quite amusing.
They are GP's and between them own a significant portion of the business.
*technically evey UK and NI citizen could also be considered as a citizen of the commonwealth so I think you might need to be a bit more careful in your descriptions, I assume you mean "Commonwealth citizfen who is not also a UK citizen"
There is an alternative argument that says that stupid people are only more likely to be openly racist and that more intelligent people claim not to be even though they are. In the US people who claim not to be racist support racist policies for example.
The conclusion that Wodtke draws is that both the high and low scorers on the tests may have racist attitudes, but the high scorers "are simply more sophisticated racists."
Google the text for the source.
I did not say all out voters were racist and stupid i said stupid folk are more likely to be racist and racist folk are more likely to vote leave
Which part of this do you think is untrue?
All of it. My wife is pretty stupid but not racist. My mam is pretty intelligent but IMO is racist. My daughter is a predicted
9 a* student and she would vote out if she was old enough, she's also not a racist and obviously not stupid.
Stupidity and racism arnt a prerequisite to voting to leave.
So they are GPs ... you will find that if they are Doctors they will have no problem whatever to work in any part of the world.jimw - Member
They are GP's and between them own a significant portion of the business.
Ask them who funded their study to be doctor then report back. 😀
*technically evey UK and NI citizen is also a commonwealth citizen, so I think you might need to be a bit more careful in your descriptions, i assume you mean "Commonwealth citizen who is not a UK citizen"
Yes, non-UK Citizen from Non-EU or European British Commonwealth Citizen. Specific enough?
They ALL can vote.
YOu are misconstruing what I said.
1. The less bright you are the MORE LIKELY you are to be racist
2. The more racist you are the MORE LIKELY you are to vote leave
Nowhere have i said all racist are thick or all thick folk are racist or that no racist is bright or another combination
True but the former makes the later more likely and together they make voting leave more likely.stupidity and racism aren't a prerequisite to voting to leave.
@edukator interesting but I dont know enough about america to comment as busing programs was something I had to google. It may just be that they are not racist but they dont like affirmative action or positive discrimination ? Not liking that does not make one a racist IMHO
Many folk dont like women only short lists oe quotas but they are not all sexists - that said I am not informed enough to asses american attitudes to american issues
Both of them trained in India and were qualified when they came to the UK
So you are agreeing that your original comment is wrong, not ALL commonwealth citizens will find it difficult to get jobs here.
chewkw:
Can I ask: Where are you from and what experience do you have that allows you to comment on the relationship between the UK and the EU?
jimw - Member
Both of them trained in India.
So you are agreeing that your original comment is wrong, not ALL commonwealth citizens will find it difficult to get jobs here.
Nope, I stand correct.
If they are Doctors they will have no problem whatsoever to get a job in any part of the world.
1. is incorrect according to the study I quoted, Junkyard.
You love to accuse people of racism, Junkyard. Me for example, regarding my comments on teaching in Leicester, where I was a victim of racism as a white minority of one person among thirty.
Edit: I see you've seen my post now Junkyard. Observing kids playing in school playgrounds I really haven't noticed the "under performing" kids being more racist than the bright ones. If anything the non-intellectuals will be playing multi-racial football and the intellectuals talking in racial groups.
I'm not sure where youse are going with generalising about what racists are or aren't, and talking about commonwealth citizens... both lines of discussion seem fairly unimportant to the discussion.
C'mon Russ put us out of our misery, we are on tenterhooks now.....
He found that the group that scored higher on the test were less likely to hold racist beliefs than their lower-performing counterparts. For example, among those who did well on the verbal test, 29 percent said blacks were lazy and 13 percent said they were unintelligent. By contrast, among those who performed poorly on the intelligence test, 46 percent described blacks as lazy and 23 described them as unintelligent
Lower scoring test-takers were also more likely to disapprove of intermarriage, and not want a black family living next door.Overall, those who scored better on the test had more favorable opinions of blacks and were less likely to blame them for their disadvantages than did their lower-performing respondents.
But when it came to government policy – affirmative action, or busing, for example – smarter respondents were no different than their less-intelligent peers.
They then argued that some views to some specific "affirmative action" things [listed] "proved otherwise. I explained why I think its a flawed premise.
They are less racist but they dont like affirmative action - there are many reasons to not like this other than outright racism. They dont know why they objected ,they never asked, and they just assume racism. This is , at best, contentious and it is certainly unproven.
EDIT
see you've seen my post now Junkyard.
I had read it before both previous posts and trading anecdotes is pointless.
I'm not sure where youse are going with generalising about what racists are or aren't, and talking about commonwealth citizens... both lines of discussion seem fairly unimportant to the discussion.
True
Forgive me I shall cease this pointless distraction now
mikey74 - Member
chewkw:Can I ask: Where are you from and what experience do you have that allows you to comment on the relationship between the UK and the EU?
A British Commonwealth citizen that can vote on all matter affecting BritLand (indirectly us ...)
If BritLand wants to be the leader (or maintain leadership role) of Commonwealth nations then British Commonwealth Nations should have a say because we Do Not want to be indirectly govt by rich developed EU nations. Especially the EU bureaucrats.
If BritLand want to be part of EU then the British Commonwealth should be dissolved. i.e. no longer exist or merely exist for ceremony to cherish past relationship.
Dissolve the British Commonwealth and we shall Not have a say in your matters. You can then be part of EU whatever we don't give a monkey!
Otherwise Do Not try to intervene in Commonwealth matters or try to tell them what to do ...
edit: All British Commonwealth Citizen can vote if they are in Britland regardless of whether they are British citizen or not.
Nope, I stand correct.
No, you stand [i]corrected[/i] as your original comment would have included them as commonwealth citizens, they by your own admission have no problem getting jobs in the UK, ergo the comment is wrong
Try getting them to apply jobs in non-medical field ...jimw - Member
Nope, I stand correct.
No, you stand corrected as your original comment would have included them as commonwealth citizens, they by your own admission have no problem getting jobs in the UK, ergo the comment is wrong
Think you are splitting hairs ...
Just as unproven as linking intelligence and racism, Junkyard. Some (intelligent) people make all the right noises but when you look at their actions they are racist. Someone who claims to make no racial distinction will never rent out their property to blacks for example (I have) or never employ Arabs (I have) always finding an excuse but never admitting the real reason - racism.
Splitting Hairs or being accurate, depends on your perspective.
Well I'm inclined to think David Mitchell has a point.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/29/eu-referendum-parliament-leaders-david-cameron-david-mitchell ]Why elected leaders ought to make the big decisions[/url]
@ernie did you read my post, London is hugely Labour biased so for Boris to overturn that shows his popularity
@DrJ Touche - Kahn and Khan. Joking aisde as much as I respect Lagrand, DSK is a perfect example of what a political organisation the IMF is.
@Junky EU migration is fundamentally racists as if you are European (so basically white) you can go anywhere. From Africa, Latin America, Asia - no thanks. All we are asking for is the same system as pretty much everywhere else in the world, the EU is the outlier here.
Watched Marr on replay, Varoufakis quite direct about the dire state of the EU teetering on the edge he made the point that we in the UK are screwed both ways Remain or Leave when it inevitably goes bang. Personally I think the further away we are the better. Fox made the point well that over the years again and again we have talked about reform but the political union rolls on as indeed it has to to prop up the failed euro.
Blair also made the point that EU migrants do the work Brits don't want to and wages we won't accept - shot Remain in the foot there (and Brit unemployed claiming benefits) - we can have cheap workers with controlled immigration and the employers can pay for their visa applications and we can keep an eye on living and working conditions. Mich better solution.
Just as unproven as linking intelligence and racism, Junkyard
The evidence base for the least intelligent being the most authoritarian and racist is robust
You are free to ignore it and throw anecdotes around as if they counter actual research
Anecdotes are important. Because it's the sum of the anecdotes that form our attitudes. It's by acting on anecdotes that changes can be made. Anecdotal evidence suggested employers were being influenced by candidates names. A study was set up in which the same/similar CVs were sent to employers with different names. Sure enough, the Mohameds didn't get interviews but the Pauls did.
That's real research to prove that presumably intelligent employers who claim not to be racist are extremely racist.
He doesn't make the point as inevitable, he's making the point that if it carries on as is, it's likely and britain being in our out, doesn't matter, it'll get sucked into the repercussions regardless. His main point is about uniting(whether left or right) and fighting to change the EU into a more transparent democracy.Varoufakis quite direct about the dire state of the EU teetering on the edge he made the point that we in the UK are screwed both ways Remain or Leave when it inevitably goes bang.
He also makes the point fairly clearly, that Brexit will accelerate EU disintegration. Which leaves a broken Europe in the hands of fringe extreme groups. A fairly terrifying outcome for all tbh.
Fast forward on the link I gave on the last page about half an hour(past the Greek stuff), his points on transparency and the above are simple, but fairly compelling.
@slowoldman - what a patronising little man Mitchell is. Maybe he should take that BS to Switzerland where they have referendums all the time and see what they say ? I have the exact contrary view that the big issues should be [b]seperated[/b] from the general elections. We should have a referendum every year or two on important issues. If you had listened to the politicians the Scottish vote would have been a formality, as it was the public rejected independence
Junky EU migration is fundamentally racists as if you are European (so basically white*) you can go anywhere. From Africa, Latin America, Asia - no thank
Free movement within a territory is not racist and if it is every territory in the world is racist
If we leave the EU afterwards I will be freely able to move anywhere within the UK but no one else in the world will have this - Why wont this still be racist?
*Do you not think its a bit racist to argue all Europeans are "basically white"
presumably intelligent employers
Total guess as the research did not measure the employers intelligence
if they had they would find out the stupid ones were more likely to be racist than the brighter ones as does the rest of the research you wont accept
Your anecdotes wed to your inability to grasp what the research showed [and then saying it showed something IT DID NOT EVEN MEASURE] renders me unwilling to participate further in this futile excercse
.
I have the exact contrary view that the big issues should be seperated from the general elections.
Define "big issues".
Since you keep mentioning the Scottish ref in jambafacts, I was wondering if you could enlighten a simple teuchter from the benighted glen. Why was a vote to leave apparently based on small minded nationalism on our part,yet a vote to leave the EU isn't?
@tmh, the ONS uses the £350m figure (annual equivalent)
Mr Grayling also defends Vote Leave's claim that EU membership costs the UK £350m a day - after the UK statistics chief said it was misleading."It's our gross contribution according to the Office for National Statistics," he says, even pointing out it's on table 9.9 in one of its reports