[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Living somewhere with EU membership won't keep dependents' EU citizenship if/when the UK leaves the EU.

As @dd says, you'd have to get the kids (and yourself) an EU member state passport. I'll say again there is no such thing as EU citizenship. Its a bluff / marketing term.

igm - Member

Just to pick one German car manufacturer yes sbob I would expect Portugal and the Czech Republic to take some of the hit

Some, but not most.
Either way my point stands.

Depends on the model I suspect sbob.

I think you need to go and properly research the issue before we can tell if you have a point and if it stands.

At the moment it's just assertion.

mattjg - Member
I've read several times that the big German car firms will prioritise EU integrity over exports to the UK.

& it's not like their sales are going to stop, even if they take a hit.

No impact whatsoever if German car firms decide not to export to UK. Totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of car firms that want to export to UK put it this way. With German car firms out of the way the competition become less and other car firms can enter UK with less competition.

igm - Member

Depends on the model I suspect sbob.

I think you need to go and properly research the issue before we can tell if you have a point and if it stands.

At the moment it's just assertion.

My point was that the EU is not single entity, and that it is foolish to consider it as such.
Not really anything to discuss on that matter.

My fault for not picking a better example.
Maybe I should have used Greece not compensating us for the loss of Ford Transit production instead. 😉

There are plenty of car firms that want to export to UK put it this way. With German car firms out of the way the competition become less and other car firms can enter UK with less competition.

What are you talking about,they will still export to the UK, its just we will have to live with an additional 10% overhead due to tariffs.

Not getting a trade deal, doesn't mean you can't trade with the UK at all as we have WTO rules.

Chewkw in wrong end of stick moment - who'd have thought?

richc - Member
What are you talking about,they will still export to the UK, its just we will have to live with an additional 10% overhead due to tariffs.

Not getting a trade deal, doesn't mean you can't trade with the UK at all as we have WTO rules.

It's still peanuts even if they increase it to 30% with you lot rich middle class people. 😆

I was referring to someone making a big deal about German car firms trading with UK etc ...

edit: in SE Asia ... it's 200% at one point ... still you get about 5% of the people cruising in one but they are mainly cronies ...

igm - Member
Chewkw in wrong end of stick moment - who'd have thought?

It is not the end of the world if you don't drive a German car you know ... 😆

More helpfully, sbob you are right that the EU is not a single entity (though they are working hard on a united front), but nor are countries (see the dis-United Kingdom as an example) and in fact not even big companies are single entities.

So the point is somewhat moot when you consider the interdependent nature of national economies (particularly within a tight trading bloc) and the united front the EU countries are currently (and it may change) showing.

Agreed?

Chewkw - is that a genuine British car then? Wow.

I have no idea what the nationality of my car is - wasn't a consideration for me. Price and function were.

My wife is on her 5th German car and 4 (VWs) were pretty poor by my reckoning - but she didn't get a choice. The fifth one is very nice. Nicely thought out and well built - still looking very fresh at 100k miles. I was skeptical but I actually think it was a good deal now - mind you I did spend some time playing dealers off against one another when we bought it.

It is not the end of the world if you don't drive a German car you know ...

I'm confused, you do know that we will have to pay tariffs on imported cars from *anywhere* not just the EU?

The issue is that the car's won't be made here, as it makes little sense to do so. As the manufacturers have a choice of paying a tariff when shipping to one country (UK) or 27 (EU); which isn't a tough choice.

igm - Member
Chewkw - is that a genuine British car then? Wow.

I have no idea what the nationality of my car is - wasn't a consideration for me. Price and function were.

richc - Member
I'm confused, you do know that we will have to pay tariffs on imported cars from *anywhere* not just the EU?

The issue is that the car's won't be made here, as it makes little sense to do so. As the manufacturers have a choice of paying a tariff when shipping to one country (UK) or 27 (EU); which isn't a tough choice.

Has anyone been reading (or, ahem, reading excerpts on twitter like me 🙂 ) any of the Great Repeal Bill white paper?

As Ian Dunt says, the amount of work it skips over is vast. 2 years? 😆

What is 10%?

Would you be happy to take a 10% pay cut? If not why not it's only 10%, which is peanuts.

@dd i like the way it allows the government a freehand to "fill in gaps"

i.e. make up laws as they see fit.

richc - Member

What is 10%?

Would you be happy to take a 10% pay cut? If not why not it's only 10%, which is peanuts.

Chewkw - what I meant was a fair number of Toyotas are from Derby. You might be driving a British car.

Of course where cars are made is not about the cost. It's about jobs as I think others have been suggesting.

I do and I prefer Toyota. German car are fine but just not for me, not sure why people are making such a big deal of German car firms decision tbh. FFS! 10% is peanuts.

In order to demonstrate the leaver claim that "they need us more than we need them and Germany will cave under pressure from the car firms" is false.

Hope that's not too complicated to follow.

igm - Member
Chewkw - what I meant was a fair number of Toyotas are from Derby. You might be driving a British car.

deadlydarcy - Member 
Has anyone been reading (or, ahem, reading excerpts on twitter like me ) any of the Great Repeal Bill white paper?

I love the bit where we "Transpose existing EU legislation into domestic UK law". I.e. copy and paste EU law and call it UK law.

Now THAT really is "taking back control".

mattjg - Member

I do and I prefer Toyota. German car are fine but just not for me, not sure why people are making such a big deal of German car firms decision tbh. FFS! 10% is peanuts.

In order to demonstrate the leaver claim that "they need us more than we need them and Germany will cave under pressure from the car firms" is false.
Hope that's not too complicated to follow.

Nobody says Germany will cave in under pressure from their car industry. They simply cannot and not allowed to. How they deal with their own car industry is entirely up to them.

My view is that all this tit for tat action (if there is any) will settle down once they realise that it's just a waste of time.

In order to demonstrate the leaver claim that "they need us more than we need them and Germany will cave under pressure from the car firms" is false.

I'm not even sure what chewkw's point is (not sure he is either mind you).

chewkw: are you arguing that a 10% tarriff is "peanuts" so it won't have a real impact on German car sales here?

If so then you are [i]agreeing[/i] with mattjg that the Leaver tactic is wrong and German car manufacturers [i]won't[/i] pressure their government to strike a good deal with the UK?

Nobody says Germany will cave in under pressure from their car industry.

Err... yes they do.

This whole thread of the conversation was started by [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/746?replies=26124#post-8383985 ]sbob saying[/url] : [i]"if an unfavourable trade deal resulted in us buying fewer German cars...
It would be Germany alone that would suffer, and it would be political suicide for a German politician to facilitate such a situation."[/i]

And the more general [i]"They need us more than we need them"[/i] has been a central argument of Leavers claiming that we can get a good deal with Europe.

GrahamS - Member

In order to demonstrate the leaver claim that "they need us more than we need them and Germany will cave under pressure from the car firms" is false.

I'm not even sure what chewkw's point is (not sure he is either mind you).

chewkw: are you arguing that a 10% tarriff is "peanuts" so it won't have a real impact on German car sales here?

If so then you are agreeing with mattjg that the Leaver tactic is wrong and German car manufacturers won't pressure their government to strike a good deal with the UK?

Really you guys need to give it a rest ... you cannot keep getting your knickers in the twist over 10% regardless of who that 10% are for. 10% either way is peanuts and a waste of time so no big deal.

GrahamS - Member

Nobody says Germany will cave in under pressure from their car industry.

Err... yes they do.

Really you guys need to give it a rest ... you cannot keep getting your knickers in the twist over 10% regardless of who that 10% are for. 10% either way is peanuts and a waste of time so no big deal.

Fair enough - as long as you recognise you are completely contradicting what many prominent Leavers are saying?

For example David Davis:

Free trade with Britain is in all their interests.

This is particularly true of the most powerful leader in Europe, Angela Merkel.

Her economy is dependent on exports, particularly of manufacturers, and especially of cars. Britain is the second largest and fastest growing car market in Europe.

Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Volkswagen alone are over 25% of the British market, with the UK buying one million cars from Germany every year.

They cannot afford the threat being levelled at Britain, so called “WTO terms”, because they would involve a 10% levy on all car imports.
A German Chancellor would have to avoid this, particularly in an election year. In Europe, what a German Chancellor wants, a German Chancellor generally gets.

-- http://www.daviddavismp.com/david-davis-gives-a-speech-making-the-case-for-brexit/

For example David Davis:

Chewkw just likes arguing and trying to provoke reaction.

Chewkw - the pro-Britain, anti-Brexit folk agree that Germany is unlikely to go running for their mummy at the concept of a bit of a tariff on cars. The anti-Britain, pro-Brexit types disagree with you - but they're a bunch of traitors so who cares.

igm - Member
Chewkw just likes arguing and trying to provoke reaction.

Chewkw - the pro-Britain, anti-Brexit folk agree that Germany is unlikely to go running for their mummy at the concept of a bit of a tariff on cars. The anti-Britain, pro-Brexit types disagree with you - but they're a bunch of traitors so who cares.

Nobody says Germany will cave in under pressure from their car industry.

This argument has been used many times by leavers aiming to show "they need us more than we need them".

mattjg - Member

Nobody says Germany will cave in under pressure from their car industry.

This argument has been used many times by leavers aiming to show "they need us more than we need them".

On the contrary I think we should chill, relax whatever but try not to make it a big deal.

You don't get to decide what's a big deal and what's not.

Edited by me.

he's just trolling.

"Despite its trade deficit with Germany, Britain is as economically dependent on Germany as vice versa – and a lot more dependent on the EU as a whole. Even German businesses, which are deeply linked to the EU via supply chains and investment, value the integrity of the single market and the EU more than tariff-free access to the UK market."

http://www.cer.org.uk/publications/archive/policy-brief/2017/berlin-rescue-closer-look-germanys-position-brexit

etc etc

chewkw: do you even understand what you are arguing about?
Because, as is often the case, I have absolutely no idea what your point is 😕

You're directly contradicting what the Rt Hon Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union claims and then telling us to chillax because they know what they are doing.

[img] [/img]

GrahamS - Member
chewkw: do you even understand what you are arguing about?
Because, as is often the case, I have absolutely no idea what your point is

Very simple. Let them do their job first. [b]Stop speculating. [/b]

All we are doing here is to show our own opinions that's all.

Who is contradicting who is not important because nothing has happened yet.

Let the govt negotiates with them first ...

You're directly contradicting what the Rt Hon Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union claims and then telling us to chillax because they know what they are doing.

All we are doing here is to show our own opinions that's all.

Okay so your [i]opinion[/i] is that David Davis is wrong? Yes?

Based on what exactly, if not [i]speculation[/i]?

I love the bit where we "Transpose existing EU legislation into domestic UK law". I.e. copy and paste EU law and call it UK law.

Now THAT really is "taking back control"

Indeed.

Graham can you go back to debating with the flat earthers and stop trying to find some logic in his views 😉

UK has lost already 20% of its spending power, another 10% makes German cars 30% more expensive.

Is that enough???

yiman - Member
deadlydarcy - Member
Has anyone been reading (or, ahem, reading excerpts on twitter like me ) any of the Great Repeal Bill white paper?
I love the bit where we "Transpose existing EU legislation into domestic UK law". I.e. copy and paste EU law and call it UK law.

Now THAT really is "taking back control".

As is the bit which says (to paraphrase slightly) - there's quite a lot to get through so we might need to use a procedure which is fairly light on parliamentary scrutiny. Wonderful.

As is the bit which says (to paraphrase slightly) - there's quite a lot to get through so we might need to use a procedure which is fairly light on parliamentary scrutiny. Wonderful.

That'll all be the EU's fault too. Just you wait...

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It's more circular than the religious threads. I didn't think it possible.