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I'm confused, you do know that we will have to pay tariffs on imported cars from *anywhere* not just the EU?
Yup so a level playing field for everyone. As I posted before in that scenario a tariff free trade deal with Japan and a focus on Hybrid technology would be a smart move in my book. German and French manufacturers have lead the way in poisoning us with Diesels anyway.
We export £15bn worth of cars and import £40bn with the EU. They'd be totally bonkers not to agree tariff free deal for car manufacturing and import/export.
For Erasmus, Switzerland is a useful case study. Used to be an Erasmus member, got unceremoniously kicked out because they don't allow free movement, that's a proven red line
Northwind Inappreciate this is what you do for a living but my understanding is
1) Switzerland got kicked out as they refused to pay the membership fee
2) Canada, Australia etc don't have freedom of movement. Switzerland voted against Freedom of Movement in a Referendum in 2014 (?) but they never imolemented it as EU blocked its removal.
Erasmus is going to continue for UK Unis .. just wait and see. Just another scaremingering story like WW3 and a global recession casued by Brexit
They'd be totally bonkers not to agree tariff free deal for car manufacturing and import/export.
But chewkw just spent ages explaining that a 10% tariff was peanuts and would have no impact on import/exports.
The Rt Hon Secretary of State will know what to do and will do it for the benefit of the UK.
😆 😆 😆
Best one liner ever
See what I mean ^^
Expect more stuff like this from swivel-eyed Brexiteers. We have (at least) two years to put up with it.
"They'd be bonkers..."
"They need us more that we need them..."
"The Germans and French are poisoning us with diesel..." (never mind our own government's taxation policy which encouraged diesel usage)
Like that massive bell-end Tim Martin, the likes of jambalaya will blame foreigners for everything.
a global recession casued by Brexit
And this, for posterity, is yet another lie.
Jamba - First, hybrid is yesterday's technology and the emphasis is moving on to full electric (in fact in some quarters hybrid is seen as part of the problem in the same way diesel is because it offers very little advantage over a petrol engine except in places where full EV would be far better - working with OLEV and some manufacturers at the moment).
Second, tariffs being a level playing field one will tend to build the next model of car in a place where tariffs are lower - yes the devaluation of the pound helps thus a little but not if the raw materials and components need to be imported (which to a large extent they do). So jobs in the short to medium term move overseas. In the long term, say 20 years or so, if productivity is high / or wages low in Britain then that might change - but it's a long time off and it won't help semi-skilled to skilled workers (bosses and robots maybe, but not your blue collar worker).
You voted for a nationalist ticket that will scupper the nation if we're not very careful (and possibly even if we are).
As I posted before in that scenario a tariff free trade deal with Japan and a focus on Hybrid technology would be a smart move in my book. German and French manufacturers have lead the way in poisoning us with Diesels anyway.
Oh look Daddy, German hybrids.
[url= http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/electric-vehicles ]VW Hybrids[/url]
[url= http://www.bmw.com/com/en/active_hybrid/overview.html ]BMW Hybrids[/url]
[url= http://www.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/passenger_cars_world/innovation_new/hybrid_technology.html ]Mercedes Hybrids[/url]
Stop speculating.
Thread closed, indefinitely?
We export £15bn worth of cars
and virtually every single one is made by a foreign company.
import £40bn with the EU
and we just put the cost of those cars up by 30%, that is going to hurt.
Erasmus is going to continue for UK Unis .. just wait and see. Just another scaremingering story like WW3 and a global recession casued by Brexit
quite possible, but it will cost money and mean paying money to the EU.
mrmo - bizarrely because components and materials are imported we may have raised the costs of the ones we export too
jambalaya - MemberNorthwind Inappreciate this is what you do for a living but my understanding is
1) Switzerland got kicked out as they refused to pay the membership fee
Unsurprisingly, your "understanding" has no basis in fact. It'd take you entire seconds to gain a basic understanding of this, because it's all completely on record and in the public domain. Instead you'd rather invest more time in contradicting someone you know to be a subject matter expert, with an opposing theory which you made up. Are you even aware you do this?
http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/26/eu-suspends-swiss-erasmus-participation-for-2014
(literally my top 3 google hits- a news story explaining it, the EU explaining it, and a Swiss university explaining it)
2) Canada, Australia etc don't have freedom of movement.
And? You obviously think that's significant but it just shows you don't understand the topic. So I'll give your reassurances all the weight they deserve.
Yes, I have said it but bottom line is that nothing happens yet so what's the worst case scenario? Even if you agree/disagree with me we still have to wait and see, coz the negotiation can swing both ways which is true don't you think so? Therefore, why jump to the conclusion?GrahamS - Member
They'd be totally bonkers not to agree tariff free deal for car manufacturing and import/export.
But chewkw just spent ages explaining that a 10% tariff was peanuts and would have no impact on import/exports.
It is true. 😛igm - Member
The Rt Hon Secretary of State will know what to do and will do it for the benefit of the UK.
Best one liner ever
slowoldman - Member
Oh look Daddy, German hybrids.
VW HybridsBMW Hybrids
Mercedes Hybrids
Oh look Toyota hybrids technology ... 😆
(Think one of them is using Toyota hybrids technology can't remember which one now ...)
kelvin - Member
Stop speculating.
Thread closed, indefinitely?
No, that would be too dramatic so no good for everyone ...
Man tries to burn EU flag. Flag doesn’t burn because of EU regulations on flammable materials
I think I've worked out how to stop Brexit.
Couple of clues in the thread today, but it was chewkw who made it obvious - thanks chewkw.
It's gloriously simple but not easy.
And if I tell how it's done it won't work.
Keep watching.
PS I'm serious. Especially about the simple but not easy bit.
Tell your friends - see if they can work it out.
And I'm sober - not a drop since Sunday.
igm - Member
I think I've worked out how to stop Brexit.
😆
Like I said chewkw, thanks it was you put me on to it. Actually it's better than that - you're going to help me do it. We may not manage but we'll try.
Meanwhile, from the Guardian letters page...
Now that the divorce papers have been filed, may we children be allowed to choose which parent we would like to live with?
See I give you good ideas. 😆igm - Member
Like I said chewkw, thanks it was you put me on to it. Actually it's better than that - you're going to help me do it. We may not manage but we'll try.
Is Guardian the new "bible" or something? 😆Meanwhile, from the Guardian letters page...
mattjg - MemberThis argument has been used many times by leavers aiming to show "they need us more than we need them".
We need each other.
There is no point in Germany shooting itself in the foot, nor the UK shooting itself in the foot. Again.
ETA: Stop feeding the troll.
sbob - but we need the EU much much more than they need us! To the EU solidarity is more important than the small amount of trade we represent
Naah chewkw, not the bible, new or old, just something whimsical I saw and I thought I'd source it.
I'm feeling really uplifted by that revelation yesterday.
And this morning someone sent me the Guardian's "Three Brexiteers" video. Worth a watch - even Brexies will laugh. Boiled eggs.
Sbob - which particular troll did you wish to stop feeding?
I think I've worked out how to stop Brexit.
Brexit can be stopped if enough people want it. The EU would accept revocation of A50 (I believe) if it had some sort of constitutional backing such as a GE or referendum.
We just need a million reasonable people to change their minds about their vote, and some assistance from demographics.
No way is this over guys. The quitlings are just trumpeting this to knock you back, they know they are vulnerable.
Keep going.
Matt - agreed. Now how are we going to make that happen? (it's more than a million by the way - it has to be a landslide. But conceptually I agreed)
I think I know - and it isn't by arguing with idiots who choose not to listen.
I like to think Ghandi would be proud of me this morning - but I haven't seen him to ask.
PS - chewkw knows the answer to these questions I'm asking if he just thinks a bit.
"Brexit can be stopped if enough people want it."
Even if nobody wants it.
Article 50 negotiations are infinately extendable.
The UK could be in a never-ending state of 'thinking about leaving' just as Sweden are in a never ending state of 'thinking about honouring their commitment to join the EZ'.
The EU has a long history of dealing with inconvenient referendum results.
Way too early to panic.
Ah, so when the 'deal' is laid out in late 2018 there will be such an uproar that it'll bring down the Govt. Because it will lay out that we're in a far worse financial position AND haven't taken back 'control'?
And it'll be Tory infighting that brings themselves down.
igm, am I near?
Not a million miles - not quite that simple, but not a million miles. But we need to do something else too. Or more correctly not provide something.
Think Orwell.
And it'll be Tory infighting that brings themselves down.
I'm absolutely amazed that civil war between hasn't broken out already. Ken Clarke and Hesaltine, as the elder statesmen have come out and pointed out the insanity of Brexit, but surely to god the less lunatic fringe of the party (Anna Sourby, Nikki Morgan et al) must be getting to the point where they have to stand up to the foaming--at-the-mouth, gleefully self-destructive, anti-everything, delusional nut-jobs who Mrs May seems to listening exclusively to, along with the Daily Mail.
I thought Ruth Davidson (definitely one of the saner Tory's) was interesting on QT last night. As she accurately pointed out, there isn't a functioning opposition at the moment - nor does there look like being one any time soon - and that is very very bad for democracy at this juncture.
I can see a point coming soon where someone from within Tory Ranks will have to grasp the nettle and break with this ridiculous 'Will of the People' bollocks. Not least because as an election gets closer, a saner approach to this whole thing represents, at the very least, 48% of the population. And in a democracy, thats just too big a chunk to be ignored, and totally unrepresented for long.
I think May is very very weak. She's no leader. She's been lucky so far in having Corbyn as an 'opposition leader'. He really is beyond hopeless! But so far she's just cravenly caved in to those who shout the loudest. We don't know what she'll do if/when people with the opposite view start shouting too. Fall apart is my guess
This present situation is unsustainable in the long term. Theres no way its going to last long
EU negotiating position:
No punishment
No hard border
close relationship
2nd phase after principles of divorce agreed
transition periods possible.
Primary concerns - rights of citizens and minimising inconvenience and uncertainty for business.
Security between UK and EU very important.
Talks on trade wanted by the autumn
fair deal wanted for both sides, talks will take place in an atmosphere of sincere cooperation.
There seems to be a lot of anger on this thread - does that mean that we have done denial (hopefully, it IS going to happen)? Just bargaining and depression to go through until we have acceptance....two months, six months, five months?
Can't help wondering if all the angst is a male thing? Controversial I know. But a strong (?) woman often scares weaker men more than a strong man does. Not even sure the PM is a strong woman, but despite having three weaklings around her, she seems to be doing a much better job than all the men beating their chests but doing nothing of use other than bleating!
Who said girl power was dead. Go woman, go.....
Just bargaining and depression to go through until we have acceptance....two months, six months, five months?
I dunno, I hit indifference a few months back. They'll screw it up and make a mess of it, they always do. And there's sweet FA anyone can do about it.
Yes , they should include indifference to the list, that's my position along with acceptance. The endless news about nothing of consequence is tiring. Do people not ride bikes anymore? Talking of which....
Its not like everything was a bed of roses before the referendum. The country was in a shit state and getting shitter (from my perspective).
Will Brexit alter that decline? Probably not. But staying in the EU probably wouldn't either.
So yeah, I'm not sure about all the hatred expressed on this thread.
Pennypitstop-
Nah id still think it was a monumentally stupid idea if it was a bloke, a woman or a highly trained pidgeon running the show.
As for accepting...
When the younger generation who overwhelmingly voted to remain come of political age we can rejoin!
It's already obvious that pretty much every promise made was a lie.... No reduction in immigration (according to Davis last week). We will still be subject to ECJ rulings, the loss of trade, loss of science investment, loss of access to EU schemes like ERASMUS and development? funds, No money for the NHS-already haemorrhaging EU staff.... Another decade of punishment budgets for the poorest, 4%loss to GDP (at best !) Another Scotland referendum....
Yeah I'll still be angry at the people that voted for and executed it all so badly.
Penny, all those things that were negotiated collectively, all those standards that were negotiated collectively.
One civil service for 28 countries, well we have to duplicate the lot. how much will that cost?
How much extra red tape!, so there goes the NHS! the welfare state, environmental laws, employment laws etc.
And the best part, want to trade, you still have to abide by those standards!
That is why i am so pissed off about this.
We gain nothing but pain, and have handed the country to a bunch of self serving ***** with no opposition, no checks, etc.
fair deal wanted for both sides, talks will take place in an atmosphere of sincere cooperation.
What is Murdoch's and Dacre's position?
When the younger generation who overwhelmingly voted to remain come of political age...
they will completely change their view of the world?? it's called getting old.
"4% loss to GDP"
Bring that on, I'm sick of growth, most people in the South are.
But a strong (?) woman often scares weaker men more than a strong man does
Nah bollocks.
Look back through the thread. All the regular Remainers here were against Brexit loooooooong before May was in charge.
Meanwhile Merkel is a pretty good example of a "strong woman" too no?
😆Mr Tusk said that while the talks would be "difficult, complex and sometimes even confrontational", he hoped all sides would approach them positively.
"The EU 27 does not, and will not pursue a punitive approach -[b] Brexit in itself is already punitive enough[/b],"