[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Building on TJ's question... People in this position due to the EU - that is, not due to the UK government, UK economics, or simply bad luck.

Reminds us of how bitterly you complained about how the EU was forcing your fellow countrymen to leave their homes and country, just so you and your family could stay and enjoy living in the UK and EU.

You'll have to remind me, I don't remember saying that...?

Good to see Comrade Jeremy finally come out and say what he's been thinking all along, [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bring-socialist-britain-labour-mp-kelvin-hopkins-revolution-a7656311.html ]in what passes for reality in his head[/url]. When interviewed by Andrew Neil last night he said that once we're out the EU, any subsequent Labour government will once again have the power to intervene and subsidise 'key industries'

I've seen the future comrades.....

[img] [/img]

"Compare that to the EU immediately offering EU Citizenship to any UK resident who wants it."

Linky, please!

It hasn't happened but it's a Verhofstadt proposal. Fingers crossed but hopes not too high.

It would be a smart move by the EU though. At the macro level, the smarts and wealth generators of this country voted remain, the losers and dead wood voted leave.

(Yes I realise there are exceptions. I mean broadly).

"Compare that to the EU immediately offering EU Citizenship to any UK resident who wants it."

"Linky, please!"

"It hasn't happened"

Thanks for your input!

Well you could help make it happen. Email Verhofstadt. There's a petition on the EU website somewhere, and also Jo Maugham is doing something on this.

Ask for it.

Compare that to the EU immediately offering EU Citizenship to any UK resident who wants it. Open, cooperative and generous still.

Britain has the Tory party, why would it need an extreme right party? The politics voted by the Tory party in parliament are somewhat right of Marine's manifesto and yet Brits seem worried about her.

What was fascinating last night was interviews with various EU politicians who still hope we won't leave or are trying to negotiate in such as way as we will be discouraged to leave or make if very difficult. As we have seen so many times before classic EU anti-democracy. It doesn't matter what member states vote for onky the Superstate project matters.

Whoppit we are no more xenophobic than anywhere else in Europe, they don't want freedom of movement either and neither does anywhere else in the world have it. Its a stupid idea. It should never have been, just have a visa system with a variable cap on numbers agreed between states. Set high in good times and low in difficult ones.

EU citizenship doesn't really exist, its a smoke and mirrors tag totally dependent upon citizenship of a member state. It was introduced by the EU as a step on the road to a Superstate getting people used to the concept. It's just like the flag.

Anyway please sign a meaningless petition.

@matt we've discussed children's opportunities before. My daughter did an Erasmus year in Copenhagen but her other choices under the programme where Australia and Canada. I worked in US and Singapore. Kids will go where the opportunities are, I'd love to see stats for kids who do working holidays/gap years in say Australia or Asia vs EU.

People here like the idea of freedom of movement for work in EU but how many actually do it or get the langauge skills required ?

The EU has held us back massively and IMO is only going to decline further relative to the rest of thr world, it has many countries 10% genereal and 25% youth unemployment (50% in Greece). This is due to stagnanet economies, too much debt and too high a euro exchange rate for their economies.

Seemingly, remainers want everyone to care about them and their ideals for society.
While not caring a hoot, for those for who the EU wasn't working.

Not at all. The referendum result showed a near 50/50 divide so I would have hoped for government policy to reflect that in some way. [i]To me[/i], that result indicated that a lot of people were unhappy and things needed to change, but it also wasn't (to me) a clear enough mandate to leave either.

But here we are.

Why should the onus be on the EU to offer immediate citizenship,

it was the UK after all that decided to quit?

itd be great if verhofstadts plan comes true, Itd be great to ensure myself and my kids dont get their EU citizenship stolen from them thanks to our ill-informed flounce

they don't want

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

The EU has held us back massively and IMO is only going to decline further relative to the rest of thr world

Examples please Jamba of the EU holding us back

My daughter did an Erasmus year in Copenhagen but her other choices under the programme

yeah you pointed that out before and claimed (falsely) that that ERASMUS was nothing to do with the EU

now that my kids will be denied the opportunities yours had Im sure you feel very pleased

Britain has the Tory party, why would it need an extreme right party? The politics voted by the Tory party in parliament are somewhat right of Marine's manifesto and yet Brits seem worried about her.

Le Pen has many policies from the left and attracts many voters from the left. She is categorized as extreme right by her opponents. I see the PS is imploding post Valls saying even he won't vote for Hamon.

Tories are using Labour's decline and Lib Dem implosion to capture the centre ground. Tax free personal allowance heading to £12k (polls very well with their core retiree vote too) and increases in minimum/living wage

Leaving the EU is not a Tory or "rightwing" stance, its cross party not least as evidmced by the Leave vote stats and Corbyn's lifelong anti EU stance. A WTO only deal is like wise cross party.

A WTO only deal is like wise cross party.

The implications of which you have shown you don't really understand. I'd hazard that vast swathes of Leave voters who quite happily spout "We'll just go to WTO. No problem." don't understand the implications of WTO either. It'd be a bloody nightmare.

@kimbers your kids will be able to do Erasmus for the reasons I have stated many times. Look at the list of member countries. The value of freedom of movement to British kids is pretty limited imo and will be replaced by recipricol work/travel visas.

By the the way French press have reported that applicatiins for British passports have risen 100%, migration is a two way street.

The WTO option will be a disaster!

even the brexies on the Brexit committee did a runner when they saw how bad our options were

keep believing the hype jamba, the cult of Brexit demands unwavering support

By the the way French press have reported that applicatiins for British passports have risen 100%, migration is a two way street.

Almost like people want freedom of movement

The massive dickhead, Tim Martin* complains about British Taxes.
(But blames the EU.)
The massive dickhead, Tim Martin* complains about the lack of scrutiny for laws in parliament.
(But blames the EU for this too.)
The massive dickhead, Tim Martin* talks about Brexit giving great opportunities.
(But cannot name a single one for his business.**)

*He of cheap alcohol and shit food.
** This is probably the EU's fault as well.

Prepare for the narrative over the next two years. As Brexishambles thunders on, all its failures will be blamed on the EU making life difficult for us.

Jamba- examples of the EU holding the UK back please?

they don't want freedom of movement either

Link please.

Actually, don't bother.

You're just making stuff up.

AGAIN.

By the the way French press have reported that applicatiins for British passports have risen 100%, migration is a two way street.

If 1 was applied for last year, then 2 this year would be a 100% increase. There was a similar report mentioning percentages in increased applications for Irish (goodness knows why anyone would want to be a citizen of a country described by jambalaya as "primitive" and "backward" but there you go...) passports post-referendum but as far as I can remember, the real figures gave a clearer picture than percentages. What are the real figures and what are the reasons? Do we even get a source? Shorter queues at immigration once the border walls go up?

"itd be great if verhofstadts plan comes true, Itd be great to ensure myself and my kids dont get their EU citizenship stolen from them thanks to our ill-informed flounce"

If you gave a toss about ur kids EU citizenship you wouldn't be considering moving to Canada.

Jamba- examples of the EU holding the UK back please?

Iain Duncan Smith said so, so it must be true

If you gave a toss about ur kids EU citizenship you wouldn't be considering moving to Canada.

Please provide the logical steps that show that you're not just coming to a conclusion that suits your argument. This is what it sounds to me like you're doing, but go on, show us.

dd: the Wetherspoons bloke? Yeah heard him on the Today programme this morning. He seemed oddly befuddled for someone who is so vocal on the issue: complaining about rises in UK alcohol tax ( 😕 ?) and EU regulations that hold him back but he is unable to name.

His only solid point seemed to be that he had to pay out money for some kind of green environmental regulation - he didn't know much about it and wasn't sure if it was an EU reg or not, but after the Great Repeal Bill he'll know for sure it is a UK reg that he can lobby his MP to drop (because obviously we can't have "the environment" getting in the way of profit).

"your argument"

I don't think anything I've ever posted on this thread supports any wider argument.

If you've spotted a wider argument my posts support, I'd love to know what it is.

outofbreath - Member

If you gave a toss about ur kids EU citizenship you wouldn't be considering moving to Canada.

oob, please show me where I said I was moving to canada, come on, it cant be hard.......

Jamba- examples of the EU holding the UK back please?

I thought the [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/27/cut-eu-red-tape-choking-britain-brexit-set-country-free-shackles/ ]Telegraph article[/url] from the other day cleared this up?

Once we are freed from choking EU red tape we can once again use inefficient lightbulbs and hoovers; stop funding green energy; kill endangered newts at will; and be forced to work for more than 48 hours a week.

And who doesn't want that?

Bloody newts, sitting around being alive and holding us back.

I don't think anything I've ever posted on this thread supports any wider argument.

If you've spotted a wider argument my posts support, I'd love to know what it is.

Ok, don't show the logical steps then. I was just checking.

"If you gave a toss about ur kids EU citizenship you wouldn't be considering moving to Canada."

Source:

"re emigrating
weve sent our info off to the canadian embassay,partly out of curiosity, been told we have a very good chance of being accepted, should we want to, I have family there and the wife liked it, just the winters that are a worry
not planning to rush off yet, see how the negotiations pan out"

"Ok, don't show the logical steps then. I was just checking."

Logical steps between what and what?

And what wider argument?

Came from here:

So someone (if I'm correct here, kimbers is pretty worried that future cuts to science research funding [b]will affect his future employment prospects[/b]) investigates prospects for moving to Canada, and you conclude that that means he doesn't give a toss about his kids' EU citizenship. That's an impressive leap, I'll give you that. Now, if you could show your workings...

EDIT: my EDIT in bold.

Logical steps between what and what?

And what wider argument?

Look, if you don't want to show how you reached your conclusion, then just say.

"d you conclude that that means he doesn't give a toss about his kids' EU citizenship."

Yup. If Citizenship of somewhere with EU membership was critically important then you'd move within the EU, not outside.

Now you tell me, logical steps between what and what wider argument.

"Look, if you don't want to show how you reached your conclusion"

What conclusion?

What wider argument?

Yup. If living somewhere with EU membership was critically important then you'd move within the EU.

Living somewhere with EU membership won't keep dependents' EU citizenship if/when the UK leaves the EU.

Yeah, I had this a lot from leavers "if you love the EU so much, go and live there".

Sure, sell house, take daughter out of school, find work school and home in another country.

Then, March 2019, get told to leave?

And perhaps he would like to live in a liberal democracy?

"Living somewhere with EU membership won't keep dependents' EU citizenship if/when the UK leaves the EU"

Yup, post corrected.

Graham its about the stagnant growth in the EU and our inability to forge bilateral trade deals with fast growth markets in Asia for example. Red tape is a secondary issue although a significant one.

And perhaps he would like to live in a liberal democracy?

Screw that. He cares about his kids' EU citizenship, so anywhere that isn't in the EU means he doesn't really care! 😀

Anyway, as I said, I'm sure kimbers can speak for himself on that issue. He certainly doesn't need me dancing on pinheads on his behalf.