[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Just been reading the Article 50 letter ([url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/29_03_17_article50.pdf ]PDF shared on BBC[/url]).

I know we are in an era of soundbites, but she is [i]really[/i] keen on that "deep and special partnership" thing isn't she? Using the phrase multiple times per page seems a bit much. Reminds me of her "global global global Britain, Global Britain, Global" speech. 😕

NInfan - yeah, Did you read the article you linked? that reads as an absolute and enough for me to base my future decisions on - except for it all comes across as eh, yeah, i think maybe it'll be ok.

Matt- your right but after many years of stiffling pay it is a significant factor, Royal College of Midwives have equated it to an effective £6000 pay cut in recent years. I work in Occupational Health for Primary Care so see the results of this daily - it is falling apart due to morale, pressures, targets and a myriad of other issues pushing all levels of staff to breaking point. And brilliantly the commissioners are currently looking at decomissioning our service as NHS England have introduced a service nationwide - available for GP's only, with acute mental health issues - removing all OH support for the rest of/ majority of staff and the majority of what its needed for. Currently we are the only service like it in the England, and looking like to be no longer soon.( North East England based)

We aren't going to change our national mind prior to the GE. May s too bound up in Brexit. But the GE might well change it.
Hence why it will be in the EU's gift.

So:
* let the jubilant Brexiteers have their little day of triumph, they can never say the referendum result wasn't "respected" (cough, I prefer to say acknowledged)
* bide a little time for their plans to unravel when confronted with reality
* understand that in no way is this over, don't let them shout you down - they're doing that because they know they are weak.

No way is this over. Today is not VE day, it's Dunkirk.

This picture suggests the tide is already turning:
https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/847095529096036352

Regards nurses, We are already turning away thousands of non EU nurses:

From the same article:

When we have recruited nurses from outside the UK, they have tended to come from non-EU countries. According to the Migration Advisory Committee, 86% of nurses currently working in the UK trained here, 10% trained in non-EU countries and only 4% trained in the EU.

So as I said we are [i]already[/i] recruiting huge numbers of nurses who trained in non-EU countries.

We aren't going to change our national mind prior to the GE.

We might.

Angry teenagers join the electorate every day, oldies depart.

Lots can happen.

But your points are valid too. After we leave it certainly gets a lot harder. In due process we go back to being a new applicant nation.

Somewhatslightlydazed - sorry, wasn't replying to you (not sure how to do quoting thingy - probably would have clarified who i was responding to) was more directed at the doing without nurses and finding them from sapce comment above yours.

Stop worrying. it'll all be fine. After all, we have a plan

[url= https://www.planforbritain.gov.uk/ ]plan for britain[/url]

"If the EU say well yes to a transition but only within the realms of an A50 extension, then that would leave the A50 negotiations straddling the general election."

If by that you mean leave A50 negotiations as an endless quagmire, extended over and over again with the UK never actually leaving I think that's exactly what's planned. Our establishment, and the EUs establishment don't want us to leave.

But then my political predictions are always wrong.

Endless A50 limbo? No I can't see it, they'll want it settled.

"Endless A50 limbo? No I can't see it, they'll want it settled."

All the comment I've seen says 'they' are desperate to keep the EU project on track. Plus there's 27 of them who all have to agree.

Plus we're one of only a handful of net contributors.

Uncertainty is bad, but breaking up the EU is badder.

... so now the Remoaners will be clutching at straws for 2 years more at least.

We can check out any time we like, but we can never leave?

plan for britain

Yeah right.

@Mooman, what the remoaners realise and that the breixters don't is that we are not going to gain anything positive by leaving.

You want security, european arrest warrants etc.
you want easy transfer of goods and people. etc.
Want to fly in a plane.
drive your car
power your nuclear power station
protect the envrionment
etc
etc
etc

The EU isn't perfect, i don't think anyone thinks that, issue is simply that does leaving actually fix anything? Does it make us richer, better educated, healthier?

Or does it give the free market tories the opportunity to scrap what is left of the welfare state, abandon environmental standards?

Sounds like May now accepts a deal won't be done inside 2 years and a transition will be needed.
If the EU say well yes to a transition but only within the realms of an A50 extension, then that would leave the A50 negotiations straddling the general election.

Now that would be interesting - especially as the EU are making noises about getting the UK to retract its A50 letter.

United my backside.

How to i apply to become a Scottish?

"We can check out any time we like, but we can never leave?"

Yup.

(...but my political predictions are always wrong.)

I don't think there will be an extension to negotiations personally - the EU have siad it may not be irreversible tho so deal done, second referendum which will easily be for remain and we stay i having annoyed the 27.

It could happen

But the right want out so they can slash worker and environmental protection so it relies on the right falling apart.

could easily be another GE over it all as well

If this was the 1930's David Starkey would be using his undoubted intellect to advise the Nazis on policy. He really is a vile man.

He is also a rent-a-quote when someone wants a neo-fascist whose lips don't move when they're reading.

"We will build a more united nation that our children and grandchildren are proud to call home".

Ha ha

Based on the brexiters use of xenophobia and lies during the referendum campaign, it is plain that this is complete bollox

"We will build a more united nation that our children and grandchildren are proud to call home".

I'm struggling with the logical jump that Britain was somehow less united by being in the EU. 😕

Anyways, what are the panel's thoughts on the [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39430799 ]London Stock Exchange-Deutsche Boerse £21bn merger being blocked by the EU[/url]?

(sadly the BBC comments section isn't loading at the moment - but I'm sure it is a hive of informed debate).

Slowoldman - I absolutely haven't seen it. I've made it up.

I've seen Hammond and Davis and May say lots of things (I am assuming they got their scripts straight) many of which were not what was said earlier. And I've seen them not say some of the things Lancaster House might have led you to believe were going to be said.

Transition was specifically mentioned in May's letter to the President - even though at one point it was ruled out by Davis. And the tone on no deal has changed - that's giving room for something beyond 2 years. It's either wriggle room or a hope that we can leave but preserve our status for a bit - whys that then?

Hmmm, good question- try this.

May has asked for concurrent exit and new deal negotiations (even though there is less chance of the EU saying yes to this than May saying yes to Sturgeon - if fact Merkel has already said no) because she knows consecutive negotiations (which we'll be forced to have) will take more than 2 years. Civil servants have been saying this for months and they have a little more expertise than government ministers.

So there is the issue / potential need and there is the wriggle room / status preservation - the rest is me making it up. But it does look likely doesn't it.

GrahamS - I'm struggling with the logical jump that Britain was somehow less united by being in the EU.

I think you, like me, are an ex-pat Scot possibly also like me married to an English lass.
If so you're probably trying to work out what exactly could make the UK more dis-united than Brexit.

Infrothed debate I think you'll find GrahamS

48% do not want to support this, a further unknown % are now shitting their pants.

Parts of the letter read like an ultimatum, this only increases the * you attitude of all opposed to Brexit. Brexit folks can dismiss this but the fact is there are significantly more wealth makers in the remain camp than in the Brexit camp which is heavily populated by poor, uneducated benefits class - simple fact * wits a hard rain is gonna fall.

The EU is going to do all it can to;

1) String out our membership/contributions for as long as possible
2) Make it as easy as possible to retract A50

As The Daily Politics said today the EU27 are divided with net contributors unwilling to pay more and net recipients unwilling to take less.

Can we start the "now that's what I call Brexit album" please ('cos there's nothing quite like staring into the abyss and laughing)
I'll nominate "a hard rain is gonna fall" - thanks OMMtb.
And how about "letter from America" - do write once in a while Nige.

The London stock exchange takeover of Deutsch Boerse was dubbed a merger but it was obvious who was on the losing end. Brexit made stopping that an imperative. That's my take, Graham. Good news that means that there's no non-European control of an important trading platform that should benefit from the EU taxing the arse off London - well I would if I were a commissioner.

Jamba - surprise agreement on two points there. (The Daily Politics one is stating the bleeding obvious.)

Edit - looking at my posting rate, I may have had too much coffee today

Jamba, you seem to have missed that Britain will be contributing more in the future if that's what the EU decides. I hope (and will vote for) tarifs that more than match the UK's current contribution for access.

heavily populated by poor, uneducated benefits class - simple fact **** wits

Bob and Mrs Bob were being interviewed for the Today program this morning - other than mumbling about immigration they didn't appear to know what they wanted - just to make Britain 'great again' as it was before we joined the EEC. Other than for a period between 1939 an 1945 when we briefly held the moral high ground when were we other than perfidious Albion.

2) Make it as easy as possible to retract A50

Good. Let's hope we can muster enough collective to sense to bite their hands off. And say "thank you very much and we're really sorry for being such dimwits and we won't do it again".

I think you, like me, are an ex-pat Scot possibly also like me married to an English lass.
If so you're probably trying to work out what exactly could make the UK more dis-united than Brexit.

Correct on all three points igm 🙂

The London stock exchange takeover of Deutsch Boerse was dubbed a merger but it was obvious who was on the losing end.

Not something I've been following to be honest Edukator. Was it looking like a bad deal for the UK?
The article quotes the LSE as saying it "regrets" the commission' sdecision, so sounds like they were keen on it at least.

IgM I like this idea! How about

Alternative Ulster Stiff little fingers

Out of control - U2

However I think track number 1 should be It's my Party (and I'll cry if I want to)

On the contrary,it was looking to be a bad deal for Germany and the EU. So having suddenly become a lot more European and a lot less British today today I see the failure of the takeover as a good thing.

Jamba, you seem to have missed that Britain will be contributing more in the future if that's what the EU decides. I hope (and will vote for) tarifs that more than match the UK's current contribution for access.

That's ok. There'll be tariffs the other way to balance it out.

Not if the deal is anything like the deal with Switzerland or Norway.

Slowoldman - I absolutely haven't seen it. I've made it up.

Not if the deal is anything like the deal with Switzerland or Norway.

But Jambalaya and Nigel promised double portions of jam......

The EU is going to do all it can to;

1) String out our membership/contributions for as long as possible
2) Make it as easy as possible to retract A50

Wow I'm agreeing with Jamba, has bregret tempered him?

Meanwhile it's Lloyd's of Brussels

https://www.ft.com/content/9945c0ee-1483-11e7-80f4-13e067d5072c

(Sorry sbob)

One of those is a lying racist who blames immigrants for everything and the other one is......the mods wont like the punch line 😉

Crikey some of the responses are so doom and gloom ... 😯

It's a new day cheer up and make the future prosper. 😛

The Clash - Complete Control.

F it....have Career Opportunities too....!

ROFL!!