Forum menu
[I]Is it any surprise, unemployment is low and any people capable of doing the job will be otherwise employed at the moment. [/I]
The changes to off-payroll working in the public sector (and public sector contracts) won't have helped either, especially as they're talking of a load of fixed-term work rather than perm jobs.
Especially once the tories get us out of this pesky EU with all its rules. I assume that's why they're suddenly been so keen to leave anyway.
The Government campaigned to Remain. The current PM is "suddenly keen" to leave as that's what the result of the largest democractic excersize the UK has ever seen instructed her to do.
I don't see democracy just racists, xenophobes, delusion and lies.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-regulations-michael-gove-environment-drugs-a7649041.html Welcome to what the tories want
The Government campaigned to Remain. The current PM is "suddenly keen" to leave as that's what the [s]result of the largest democractic excersize the UK has ever seen[/s] Daily Mail instructed her to do.
FTFY
The Government campaigned to Remain. The current PM is "suddenly keen" to leave as that's what the result of the largest democractic excersize the UK has ever seen instructed her to do.
The referendum was fought with lies, deceit, fear and myopic viewpoints by both sides. Sure there was a vote, but that vote wasn't taken by the balanced educated views of the electorate.
You just as well as run two posters campaigns saying
>oooh fear the instant economic catastrophe and an eternity of xenophobic bigots
Or
>oooh, shut Johnny Foreigner out at the border and you'll have loadsa money, remember the glory days, eh, just like good old days
Can I nominate Gove to be a subject in one of these clinical trials please, and not someone who gets the placebo...
Only if he can find the time between working his 3 jobs with no health and safety protection and drinking poisoned water.
At least Henry VIII wanted to stay in Europe! 🙂
The white paper due on Thursday will set out how the government intends to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act and transplant laws that have force because of the UK’s membership of the EU into domestic law. It is expected that this will involve extensive use of “Henry VIII powers” – laws allowing ministers to change primary legislation (government bills) using secondary legislation (orders that go through parliament with little or no scrutiny).[/quote}
"The referendum was fought with lies, deceit, fear and myopic viewpoints by both sides. Sure there was a vote, but that vote wasn't taken by the balanced educated views of the electorate."
Bit like all votes then.
as that's what the result of the largest democractic excersize the UK has ever seen instructed her to do
Stop trying to claim that Leave has this overwhelming political mandate as requested by the people - you won by the skinniest of margins..
as that's what the result of the largest democractic excersize the UK has ever seen instructed her to do
And that just goes to show that democracy isn't the solution to every problem.
Bit like all votes then.
and most votes are rerun regularly.
Very good point.
Well there's a surprise!!
Meanwhile, the light begins to dawn - too late, suckers 🙁
Chris Williamson, chief business economist at IHS Markit, said pessimism had become more widespread across all age groups and income brackets.“Shortly after the referendum, the older generations and the very poorest families were the exceptions in considering Brexit to be beneficial to the long-term health of the economy. However, even these pockets of the population have now become pessimistic,” he added.
“The most marked turnaround is evident among the poorest paid, who have switched from being the most optimistic to now being the most downbeat.”
“The most marked turnaround is evident among the poorest paid, who have switched from being the most optimistic to now being the most downbeat.”
Well how did they think the rich were going to benefit? I really am at a loss sometimes. I am in a reasonably well paid job and have the fortune to have two passports so if it gets really **** i have options.
For those at the bottom, what did they think Brexit would solve. There issues have largely had nothing to do with Europe, they have been shafted by Westminster for decades. Further what do those at the bottom intend to do to escape? Emmigrate to Patagonia as the welsh and cornish miners did in decades past? Go work as brickies on the continent? Sign up as part of the East India company? etc?
The world has changed, you adapt or you die. But to take advantage you have to have some luck and money usually helps.
"and most votes are rerun regularly." True enough.
except in Yorkshire, we don't even get to have a referendum on getting out of the UK. Oh no I'm back in the loop, got to stop this.
I'd mentioned this on this thread already, but Andrew Rawnsley recently wrote a piece saying that the less mental elements of the Tory party are seriously concerned about whats going to happen as this all unravells over the next few years.
What are people going to do - how will they react - when the true scale of how they were lied too and deceived, and the full extent to which they're about to be bent over by the right wing, uber-capitalist, bonkers wing of the party, dawns on the working classes?
That that pesky 'red tape' the Brexshitters were on about actually meant employment rights, environmental controls, and god knows what else..... all the other things they'd complacently taken for granted for years, but were actually hard-won as part of the post-war settlement, and underwritten by Europe! And are now about to be gleefully torn up by this shower of self-serving ****s!!!!
[img] 
[/img]
What are people going to do - how will they react - when the true scale of how they were lied too and deceived, and the full extent to which they're about to be bent over by the right wing, uber-capitalist, bonkers wing of the party, dawns on the working classes?
In a neatly and vinegar-sharp ironic way they will probably riot and destroy their own local areas - only this time physically rather than economically.
This really is the kind of stuff that would be genuinely hilarious if it wasn't actually happening. We used to satirise stuff like this, but now the satirists would be first against the wall for being 'elitist' if the masses of Brexiteers got their way!
Whats going to add to the tinderbox that awaits is the fact that, as Matthew D'ancona points out in today's Guardian [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/27/brexiteers-immigration-promises-unravelling ]The Brexiteers’ immigration promises are unravelling fast[/url]
The one thing they promised to deliver - reduced immigration - is the one thing that they have absolutely no intention of delivering. Their paymasters still demand their ready supply of cheap labour, after all.
So the dog-whistle racism, they so cynically exploited is likely to come back and bite them hard on the arse, when their promises evaporate one-by-one into the ether, while all the things that no-one mentioned - their true agenda - becomes more obvious. No wonder they've gone to such lengths to shut down the debate, and prevent any form of oversight or scrutiny. I doubt they'll even bother to try and negotiate reduced immigration, but they'll be drawing up a long list of 'things about to be jettisoned... the minimum wage? Maternity rights? Sick pay? Environmental controls? Any regulation on business and the banks?
Its going to kick off, royally!
What are people going to do - how will they react
They will blame immigration, obviously.
The main parties will then have to double down on the anti-immigration rhetoric for votes.
It doesn't take a clairvoyant to see this.
Yebbut the tories have previously always allowed mass immigration (to keep the business wing happy) while blaming the EU (to keep the racists happy). After brexit they will have to make a choice.
Indeed. The contradiction is totally unsustainable. So there's no way they plan on doing anyhting to alter mass migration. Because the people paying the Tory parties bills, won't let them, and they've got lots of other demands that are far higher priority. None of which are going to do any favours to the majority of people who've been conned into voting for this nonsense.
I expect this is all going to unravel pretty bloody quickly once the serious business starts this week
Stop trying to claim that Leave has this overwhelming political mandate as requested by the people - you won by the skinniest of margins..
The brexshitters poured so much effort into the referendum, they still seem to be fighting that battle even though narrowly won, "We won, get over it!" I keep hearing.
Unfortunately by going "all in"(lying) on the referendum they have nothing left for next two years. They will lose the war.
The last thing the government is going to do is abolish the minimum wage, if they did, the governments life would be measured in days - it would be the poll tax all over again.
It's just that they may cut back on the raises promised.
thecaptain - Member
Yebbut the tories have previously always allowed mass immigration (to keep the business wing happy) while blaming the EU (to keep the racists happy). After brexit they will have to make a choice.
[img] 
[/img]
Unfortunately by going "all in"(lying) on the referendum they have nothing left for next two years. They will lose the war
Not really - we will still have left the EU. Of course there will be some collateral damage, but WGAS about them? It's just poor people, after all.
but WGAS about them
I would, but I'm afraid the schardenfreude is going to be too great to resist this time.
I hope when they do riot, they get called "feral vermin" by Henley-upon-Thames living, shop owning, Brexit voting Sloan rangers on national TV - like the London rioters did.
The last thing the government is going to do is abolish the minimum wage, if they did, the governments life would be measured in days - it would be the poll tax all over again.
Everyone told Fatcha what would happen if she introduced the Poll Tax. She still went right ahead and did it though.
Right now I see a bunch of ludicrously over-confident, pompous, vainglorious idiots, totally detached from reality, high and giddy on their own 'victory', who are listening to absolutely no-one, egged on by a rabid hyperbolic press, behaving as if they have a mandate from the whole country to do what they bloody well like.
You think that because something is absolutely insane, that means this lot won't do it? Have you listened to them? They're ****ing unhinged, the lot of them!
The whole thing has been absolutely mental from the day Dave announced the referendum, onwards. And the direction of travel is to head further through the looking glass. Why on earth expect reason and logic at this point down the line?
If they don't reduce migration, people will still blame immigrants, only it'll be the government's fault that they are here and the government won't have a scapegoat.
[img] 
[/img]
nah. they'll still find a way of blaming 'foreigners'. it's a ruse that's worked so well for so long.
The last thing the government is going to do is abolish the minimum wage, if they did, the governments life would be measured in days - it would be the poll tax all over again.
You don't need to abolish it, you just need to be a bit more creative.
There were wage councils, they were slowly abolished, you could set a per sector minimum wage. You can use Inflation to make the minimum wage worthless.
And to use the boiling a frog analogy, do it slowly and no one will notice.
People worry about foreigners coming here and taking their jobs. Personally I am more worried about foreigners coming over here and taking our country, bit by bit.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39410075
The Govt won't get rid of the minimum wages, at least not while welfare/benefits are as they are currently, that is why Osborne raised them - to reduce the social costs of needing to 'top up'.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/26/starmer-to-call-for-united-opposition-if-brexiters-fail-tough-tests ]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/26/starmer-to-call-for-united-opposition-if-brexiters-fail-tough-tests[/url]
Fine words from Keir Starmer 🙄
Where the **** were you lot when you should have been out there highlighting how many decades of workers rights would be rolled back and how little immigration would be affected?
The only thing labour currently has going for it (admittedly a big thing) is that it wasn't the party that caused this debacle.
They wouldn't be able to do any better in the 'negotiations' or 'national humiliation' as it really ought to be known.
In two days time we are going to step off an economic cliff and there's no one else to blame.
What we need to remember is that the EU is founded and run on social-democratic principles which pander, in the main, to the "Mittlestand" or middle classes. This is a good thing in my opinion. However, the traditional Labour movement can see power slipping away from them as peoples lot improve and they embrace more middle-of-the-road politics (New Labour, Lib-Dems, Greens, Nats). What better way to see a return to the power of the unions than to leave the EU and give business a free reign to crap on the working man. Who needs an equal & fair society when we can have an "us and them" one where the Labour Party can once again be a force to be reckoned with.
Or am I talking bolleaux
Fine words from Keir Starmer
Politicking. He's squaring the arguably necessary stance of supporting Brexit (to get the numpties on-side) with the need to actually start to oppose the government and try and support sensible ideas.
Brexit wouldn't be all that bad if we were sensible and kept single market access along with labour movement and everything else. But he's not using terms like 'soft Brexit' that were rubbished during the campaign.
Shows he's trying to do the political manoeuvring thing, unlike his boss.
Edited for clarity
welshfarmer - Member
What we need to remember is that the EU is founded and run on social-democratic principles which pander, in the main, to the "Mittlestand" or middle classes. This is a good thing in my opinion. However, the traditional Labour movement can see power slipping away from them as peoples lot improve and they embrace more middle-of-the-road politics (New Labour, Lib-Dems, Greens, Nats). What better way to see a return to the power of the unions than to leave the EU and give business a free reign to crap on the working man. Who needs an equal & fair society when we can have an "us and them" one where the Labour Party can once again be a force to be reckoned with.Or am I talking bolleaux
It's an interesting theory and I can see the logic in your idea, but it's a big jump to belive traditional labor are that clever, or that utterly evil..
Labour aren't that scheming, they no longer have the sophistication or cynicism for that.
They totally underestimated the bigotry and stupidity amongst their 'bread and butter' supporters. Because in the end, self-interest will prevail. Never forget that the militant dockworkers came out in support of Enoch Powell of all people. Bigotry is powerful.
It's good to see Labour starting to move on this. Having waived through A50 unamended - which they couldn't stop anyway - they now have a clear field to start being a pain in the ass and eventually get this stopped. (I hope this analysis has some validity!).
It's early days. A lot can happen in 2 years.
If this was WW2, right now would be Dunkirk.
Why isn't Keir Starmer leader?
I think its fair to say many of the traditional labour voters have moved on from solidarity to blaming immigrants for everything rather than global economics.They totally underestimated the bigotry and stupidity amongst their 'bread and butter' supporters
However most labour voters did vote remain [65% iirc]
I always wonder about that statistic. Presumably lots of used-to-be-labour voters changed to ukip or tory and then voted leave.
i had a day off today and initially was planning to take a big bag of cameras to London to shoot the City. Last Wednesday made me think people may be a bit on edge so I popped over to Bristol and with a nice forecast I left the cams and just took the SS roadie.
Nice day out and on the train back met a Romanian deaf mute ( German Measles, handicapped from birth). We managed to communicate adequately. He liked my bike. Liked the pics of my other bikes, and also thought my dogs look adorable.
He also thinks immigration should be stopped, all Muslims should be deported and the death penalty should be re-introduced.
Can I change my vote to remain please.
EDIT: only in the sense of not wanted to be associated with racist scum. Obvs I still want the ruling elite to understand that their ways of controlling our lives don't sit happily with me.
Suzanne Evans! Suzanne bloody Evans!
When, oh when, did we stop taking piss out of people like this and dismissing them?
A lot of people think the Middle Ages were all bad, but some things, the stocks for instance, were not a bad idea in some ways.
Look at her. Just look and listen to the bilge that is spouting out of her guffawing cakehole. Then be ashamed of yourselves.
[img] 
?w=400[/img]