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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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Even the suggestion that we might be able to retain our "EU citizenship" was somehow considered a hostile act by some of the brexiteers...


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:10 pm
 igm
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We're not just winding back to 100 years ago when Germany was the enemy, we're going back 300 when it was everyone.

Including us Scots 8)


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:28 pm
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Can any of the leavers on here point to one single concrete thing that is working to the UKs advantage to counter all the things going against

*points*

[b]ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE!!!![/b]


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:32 pm
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Fair point igm, the vitriol Farage and the leaver-ultras have for Sturgeon is staggering.

Wouldn't blame you at all for voting to break from the UK.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:34 pm
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The only way that leaving the EU would not be damaging to the UK would be if it was arranged to be membership-in-all-but-name, which May has repeatedly ruled out.

& I think she's damned us all with her arrogance..


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:35 pm
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*looks around*

Where?


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:41 pm
 mrmo
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[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/22/eus-chief-negotiator-sets-three-conditions-for-brexit-trade-talks-to-start ]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/22/eus-chief-negotiator-sets-three-conditions-for-brexit-trade-talks-to-start[/url]

Lets see how this goes down.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:48 pm
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Tenuous, that article is really dumb. Any future tariffs on imports do not go to the EU! THey are tariffs imposed by our govt which therefore go into their own coffers

True. I was considering it from the point of view of how well it illustrated the impact of tariffs and currency devaluation on the costs to the average person, the "man in the street", that was put far too nebulously by the remain campaign.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 4:52 pm
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Maybe while they're on lockdown the MPs can engage on some quiet reflection on the mess they're creating for our kids.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 5:18 pm
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^^ perhaps that was a bit insensitive since people are hurt and we don't know the full facts yet. Apologies.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 5:44 pm
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The problem is that a lot of the leavers I run into including Bob are a bit "flat earth" its difficult to hold a constructive discussion when the individual you are talking with believes the following-

A. Price increase of diesal/electricity is down to profiteering and a "pound is still a pound"
B. No one needs to visit Europe what's the point?
C. Employers all make loads of money and just need to stump up bigger wages.
D. Foreigners are nicking jobs

This is from a man who told his 11 year old daughter that if she went on the French school trip she would spend all day in a classroom with French teachers? So she sat for a week in a classroom on her own in England. Imagine what she thought of all the other kids photos when they can back.

Sorry but a lot of people are just thick.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 6:13 pm
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I think we loose site of the "Bobs" on here (both sides of the argument) people who do not understand exchange rates, inflation, interest rates and hardly well positioned to make a call on what's economically beneficial about leave or remain we can argue (reasonably) on here until the cows come home (if the dairy farmers get bailed out) but the simple fact remains (this is probably not going to go down well) that poorly educated, uninformed people made a protest vote. It makes me laugh that people turn up on TV (Question time etc) stating they knew exactly what they voted for? Yet no one can actually articulate this. We should be ashamed that these people have been mislead, manipulated and told blatant lies to ensure a vote that will benefit the ideology of a minority and the wealth of the rich. Ninfan, Jamba I understand your arguments they just don't apply to the Bob's.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 6:28 pm
 mrmo
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mating, maybe a touch, but they would do well to wonder if reducing cooperation with european bodies makes us more or less safe.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 6:30 pm
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The Bobs are an issue, I suspect they don't usually vote but they did this time and they won so they get what they want. "Simple as. End of" as they would probably say. Whether it's for right or wrong is probably not material to them, might is right and these aren't the kind of people to admit to a mistake.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 7:17 pm
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So did any of our tame leavers find some positive news about leaving to go with all the bad news?


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 7:23 pm
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No positive news yet, is there? Only bad news that might not be bad news if you squint a bit.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 7:30 pm
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Well according to the leavers its a massive opportunity and wiull be great for the UK so given the bad news is flowing in I would have thought the good news would be as well?


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 7:42 pm
 mrmo
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[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/22/shoe-retailer-brantano-goes-into-administration-with-1000-jobs-at-risk ]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/22/shoe-retailer-brantano-goes-into-administration-with-1000-jobs-at-risk[/url]

more good news, i am not saying Brexit broke the company, but that and rates and wages etc all helped. So that is another 1000people looking for work.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 8:01 pm
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 mrmo
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Ok, so the rich will get rich and we can flog them 7 series cars, but the reasonably well off will be screwed so no point selling 1 series and minis.

Nice of BMW to be honest about where they see things going.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 8:29 pm
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which are based on the UKL vehicle platform.

Are those the ones (guessing) made in the UK?


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 8:34 pm
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Well according to the leavers its a massive opportunity and wiull be great for the UK so given the bad news is flowing in I would have thought the good news would be as well?

Re the bad news they say "got to expect a little transitional turmoil".


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 8:35 pm
 mrmo
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and reading that comment a bit further, competitive models may not have a successor??? So what does that mean for Cowley and the entire Mini range????


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 8:46 pm
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don't know but I've presumed for a while the car factories are moving to Czech Rep., Slovakia, Bulgaria, Romania or wherever. that's one reason those guys will be vetoing the trade deal.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 8:51 pm
 mrmo
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another really positive article in the FT

https://www.ft.com/content/e7c69670-0f0c-11e7-b030-768954394623

Not sure how the paywall works, i think you get some free but not many.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 9:32 pm
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The Bob's are a burden not an asset, their work will be automated/off shored they then become an overhead - an operational cost an will need to be phased out

Sad but true.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 11:07 pm
 igm
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British empire, transportation to the colonies, it's the way forward I tell you.


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 11:12 pm
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test


 
Posted : 22/03/2017 11:13 pm
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More pointless EU red tape.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/23/europe-poised-for-total-ban-on-bee-harming-pesticides

Suck it up, British bees. That's what winning feels like.


 
Posted : 23/03/2017 5:39 pm
 br
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I met a real life Brexiter last night.

My aged Uncle is on a coach trip with his lady-friend at stayed near us so I took my Mum over.

Lady-friend ticked absolutely every box:
- late 70's
- West Yorkshire
- lives in a bungalow
- too many foreigners here, quote "Bradford is like been in ****stan"
- we should never have joined (the EU)
- bring back grammar schools
- our kids are been left behind 'cos there's so many others who don't speak English
- no work because of all the foreigners taking our jobs (although she also commented how the Poles just come here for the benefits)

And both were early retired before 60 due to been paid off from ex-state businesses.

Oh, and Scotland can't be independent because it can't afford to be not supported by England.

I didn't ask if they read the DM...


 
Posted : 23/03/2017 7:58 pm
 igm
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But at least she wasn't a xenophobic racist, eh BR?


 
Posted : 23/03/2017 8:58 pm
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I think for many older people a leave vote was simple a vote for the rose-tinted nostalgia of youth.

Perhaps they're right, perhaps it was all better then, but time only goes forwards.

Someone "very close to me" voted on this basis. She did reconsider, a little, when I asked her to think what was best for her young grand-daughter's future rather than her own past, but she'd already postal voted by then so it was too late.


 
Posted : 23/03/2017 10:00 pm
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Brexishambled going well i see

I thought we were overwhelmed with patriotic do gooders jumping at the chance ....

.... Maybe it's their lack of qualifications?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/hundreds-civil-service-jobs-forbrexitnegotiators-have-not-filled/


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 1:08 pm
 igm
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Lack of inclination...?


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 1:50 pm
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If your only qualification is blind optimism then I think you might be under qualified for the role...


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 1:52 pm
 mrmo
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Reading the article, seems the NAO are happy for Brexit to be called, off. Haven't got the staff and capability to do it.

Is it any surprise, unemployment is low and any people capable of doing the job will be otherwise employed at the moment.


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 2:11 pm
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Is it any surprise, unemployment is low and any people capable of doing the job will be otherwise employed at the moment.

It's OK Brexit have it covered
[img] [/img]
With serious experience in finance/banking, food/agriculture and international politics (they don't like it up 'em) what could go wrong?
We're [s]not[/s] all doomed


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 2:14 pm
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oldmanmtb - Member
I think we loose site of the "Bobs" on here (both sides of the argument) people who do not understand exchange rates, inflation, interest rates and hardly well positioned to make a call on what's economically beneficial about leave or remain we can argue (reasonably) on here until the cows come home (if the dairy farmers get bailed out) but the simple fact remains (this is probably not going to go down well) that poorly educated, uninformed people made a protest vote...

You don't need any of that info, just one salient piece of information.

There has not been a intra European war in over 70 years.

Peace trumps all IMO.


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 3:25 pm
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seems the NAO are happy for Brexit to be called off

Their view of the Government seems even dimmer than mine.


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 3:28 pm
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mattjg - Member

Suck it up, British bees. That's what winning feels like.

Bob can retrain into a new career in pollination


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 4:25 pm
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Heseltine's latest gaff.... surely it's time he stuck to the vintage port and leaves politics to people whose attitudes are not stuck in the 1940's


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 5:56 pm
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Anyone who can get to one of the events tomorrow, please do your absolute best to do so. This is nowhere near over and we're on the right side of history.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/24/60-anniversary-european-union-stand-up-be-counted


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 8:04 pm
 mrmo
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Heseltine's latest gaff.... surely it's time he stuck to the vintage port and leaves politics to people whose attitudes are not stuck in the 1940's

Progress over the Brexiters who are in the 1840's i would suggest.


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 8:16 pm
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more good news, i am not saying Brexit broke the company, but that and rates and wages etc all helped. So that is another 1000people looking for work.

It hastened it. A failing retailer with a business model that was adequate for the early 2000's but not the latter part of this decade (out of town, specialist, behind the game ecommerce-wise). But the real speeding up effect will be the fact that the own brand stuff will be far eastern and thus paid for in dollars. FX rate 22/06/16 = one pound was worth pretty much 1.5 dollars. Now it is worth 1.25. Take even a healthy company and put a 20% increase on its main costs and see what happens. It's not rocket science.

The big boys will end up doing better, they always do. The marquee retailers often have lower than 'fair' rents or rent-frees as they attract customers to an area. The smaller guys then make up the short-fall with higher rents. So the big boys get richer and the little guys go under. The net effect on the consumer is reduced choice and more potential for the big guys to form pseudo-cartels and bang, up go prices. The consumer always loses.

The effects of this fiasco will be very, very damaging.


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 10:07 pm
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The big boys will end up doing better, they always do.

Especially once the tories get us out of this pesky EU with all its rules. I assume that's why they're suddenly been so keen to leave anyway.


 
Posted : 24/03/2017 10:29 pm
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