[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

but the confrontational nature of this thread is making him dig in even more

I've not been following it, how is the in vs out balance?

I've had my share of angry moments (I'm still ****ing livid about leavers voting to strip me and my child of our rights of FOM against my consent, I take that personally) but I do my best not to be confrontational. It won't change any minds - and the doubtful centre is where change would come from too, confrontation won't help there.

Jamba - every time you say Project Fear or Project Armageddon I know you mean the remain campaign which set out fairly straightforwardly why leaving was going to cause pain for those least able to afford it.

I know that's what you mean but due to the fact it's only Brexies that use the terms I associate them with the leave campaign and more recently the 3 Brexmigos.

I mean can you think of anyone better than BoJo, Fox and Davies as a personification of Project Armageddon?

Work May in as Death and you have the four horsemen.

I've had my share of angry moments (I'm still ****ing livid about leavers voting to strip me and my child of our rights of FOM against my consent, I take that personally) but I do my best not to be confrontational. It won't change any minds - and the doubtful centre is where change would come from too, confrontation won't help there.

Problem is now that the executive have been given unfettered power, where are the checks and balances to prevent them doing as they please? It is now more than ever we need an effective opposition party.

So the holiday is over soon for you Brexshiters. I reckon by Christmas we will know a good amount about how much you lot have set this country back by.

You had your tantrum, shat your nappy and only now is the stink going to really permeate. And ultimately, although you think you have proven a point, all that you (and the rest of us) are really left with is to sit in a shitty nappy until a grown up cleans up the mess. But no one is coming to change the nappy.

Well done.

well if he's saying the remain campaign was poor he's spot on!

reality is leave won and that's where, quite rightly, the scrutiny is.

danny I tend to think of shitting bed not nappy. they shat the bed then want us all to "pull together" and lie on it.

declining to occupy their shat bed makes one, naturally, a traitor.

well if he's saying the remain campaign was poor he's spot on!

How could the Tories campaign for an organisation that they had scapegoated for 40years?

That the result was so close actually says something!

I wonder if any brexiters ever exercised their rights to freedom of movement?

It's a bit like people who don't take foreign holidays wanting to close the airports.

danny I tend to think of shitting bed not nappy. they shat the bed then want us all to "pull together" and lie on it.

declining to occupy their shat bed makes one, naturally, a traitor.

Which is why so many have taken out second passports so they can find a different bed if need be.

I work in a multinational company, so hopefully if our economy tanks I can get relocated to an EU country that might be doing better. Better keep my eye on the internal job boards.

Which is why so many have taken out second passports so they can find a different bed if need be.

I know someone from NI who voted leave, happily voting to remove my 5 yr old daughter's FOM rights, and is now getting Irish passports for his kids so they can keep it.

You couldn't make it up.

Regrettably I have the misfortune to be 100% English, no such option for my little girl.

@molgrips don't blame you. Brain drain is another of the negative consequences here.

mrmo - Member

the 52% aren't the ones who earn money in the Uk, as a very general rule they are a drain on the UKs finances.

What? 😕
Benefit cheat foreigners from overseas voted for Brexit to scupper our beautiful country? 😯
Bastards. We should vote OUT, that'll learn 'em! 😈

Don't worry mrmo, I am only joking.
I also love to vilify the poor. 🙂

[i]BR =- so you are a leaver and accept it will cause damage to the economy for 25 years? [/I]

Nope, check my posts and you'll see I am very much a Remainer.

My experience of life/business/travelling makes me believe that it'll hit us hard for years - and not just in my middle-class land, but it'll hit those struggling already especially hard in the future.

mattjg - Member

I've not been following it, how is the in vs out balance?

Overwhelmingly in, not that it is of relevance.

The only purpose of this thread is to remind STWers that they are not representative of the UK pop, and that although the hive mind always thinks it's right, is actually always the minority.
💡

lol.

the un-revolution starts here. just wait while I get my slippers.

dannyh - Member

So the holiday is over soon for you Brexshiters. I reckon by Christmas we will know a good amount about how much you lot have set this country back by.

You had your tantrum

Accusing those who voted out of having a childish outburst would probably have carried more weight if you hadn't lacked the maturity to first refrain from referring to them with a playground slur.

Don't you think? 🙂

No, by Christmas we will have very little concrete news but A LOT of dramatic headlines. I expect this to include numerous threats to withdraw the UK's rebate. It will include proposals for Travel Visas. It will incoude even larger "divorce bill" numbers. See comment below about elections.

Headline agreement on EU nationals both ways
UK has already agreed to continue domestic funding previously provided by the EU. EU will claim this is part of divorce settlement, we will say we already agreed to fund UK projects

Not a lot else, no decision on trade, no decsion on "settlement" ... just a lot of posturing

To be honest the biggest news between now and Christmas will be who wins the French and German eelctions. Until we know that the EU cannot agree anything.

Let's just take a moment to have a look, and a moment of quiet reflection at the heavyweight intellectuals who set us on this road, shall we?

It'd be *ing hilarious if it weren't such a total *ing car crash!

Don't blame that poor lady, blame Boris, he's made a career from that bullshit.

I'm blaming both the scheming lying bastards peddling this nonsense, and the half-wits who swallowed it, along with the rest of the £350 million a week to the NHS bullshit!

we will say we already agreed to fund UK projects

Some UK projects, 'till 2020 only.

Jamba - utter nonsense to say that wesminster has agreed to fund all EU funded projects. Wales, Cornwall and Scotand have all been told by westminster this will not happen.

I know someone from NI who voted leave, happily voting to remove my 5 yr old daughter's FOM rights, and is now getting Irish passports for his kids so they can keep it.

Farage has sorted passports for his kids as well. Just to make you angrier.

Farage has sorted passports for his kids as well. Just to make you angrier.

I wish you hadn't told me that.

I'm blaming both the scheming lying bastards peddling this nonsense, and the half-wits who swallowed, it along with the rest of the £350 million a week to the NHS bullshit!

I would also blame the moderates who let this Anti-EU/immigration agenda from the loonies and their media allies rumble on since the 1990's.

I trust that this mistake will not be repeated a second time after this mess has been cleared up.

Binners, the whole banana discussion is one about EU interference, rules for rules sake. The French are every bit as p.ssed off about that nonsense too.

When I pointed out on here 3 or 4 years ago that immigration was a major issue I was shouted down as a swivel eyed DM reading loon. Issue not taken seriously ... public sends a message.

Don't be mad at Vote Leave, the responsibility for our exit lies with an intransigent EU. Junker et al took a hardline punt and lost. Germany has a more flexible benefits system and is banning EU nationals from claiming unemployment benefits for 5 years.

Farage's wife is German, I imagine they've always had German passports and why not especially as he and his wife are basically seperated ?

The EU has its flaws and Junker doesn't do it any favours, however leaving it fixes none of them at the cost of profound damage to our kids' future.

I've spent some time on leaver forums (hoping against hope I would find they are rational and correct), but they hate him, and Sturgeon, with a vengeance. To the point they're blinded by it I would say.

When I pointed out on here 3 or 4 years ago that immigration was a major issue I was shouted down as a swivel eyed DM reading loon.

Oh I don't know, I think to be fair immigration was an issue for swivel eyed DM reading loons. 😉

Farage's wife is German, I imagine they've always had German passports and why not especially as he and his wife are basically seperated ?

Ah. Of course. Forgotten that that's why he doesn't like Germans 😉

Don't be mad at Vote Leave

Sorry Jamba, compared to the Brexies the EU comes across a model of flexible thinking and reasonableness, and the EU never did me any harm. The Brexies have already done harm, and will continue to do so. I'm mad at the Brexies.

From The Spectator. See in particular the last highlighted sentence

Countdown to Brexit

The wait is over – almost. Today Downing Street announced that Theresa May will trigger Article 50, the first formal step in Britain’s departure from the EU, on 29 March. In the same briefing, the Prime Minister's spokesman put an end to speculation about an early election – stating that 'there is not going to be one until 2020'.

When the Prime Minister formally triggers Article 50 next Wednesday, the two-year process for Britain leaving the EU will begin. Many in government expect the start of the talks to be difficult: ‘get ready for a spot of turbulence’ says one of those intimately involved in the preparations for the negotiations. The expectation is that the EU will insist the so-called ‘divorce bill’ must be settled first while the UK is adamant that it will only discuss that if the future trade relationship between the UK and the EU is also on the table.

Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission, certainly seems taken with the idea of a costly exit for the UK. In an interview to Bild, the German tabloid, he has boasted that no other EU country will consider leaving the union once they see how harshly Britain will be treated in the negotiations: ‘They will all see from Britain’s example that leaving the EU is a bad idea.’ As Fraser notes, Juncker's comments suggest that Boris Johnson wasn't so wide of the mark when he made a point a few weeks ago about the EU negotiations and the futility of the idea of punishing Britain - 'in the manner of some World War II movie' - for the sake of it.

But there is a way for the talks to get off to a more positive start: that is with an early agreement on a reciprocal rights deal for EU citizens in the UK and vice-versa. James reports that the UK government is keen on this; ministers repeatedly reassured MPs that they would try and get this done as soon as possible, as they tried to get the Brexit bill through parliament. Interestingly, the EU also wants to get this done quickly. [b]Michel Barnier, the Commission’s chief negotiator, has talked about how citizens must come first and the Spanish, who host the largest UK population in the EU, have repeatedly made clear that they would be happy with a reciprocal deal[/b].

Touche @igm 🙂

@matt the UK has tried amd tried to get the EU to reform and to change direction butbthe bureaucrats are only intrested in one project and that's the Superstate. We had to leave now or we would have been crushed to death as per the Boa Constrictor metaphor I have used before.

Accusing those who voted out of having a childish outburst would probably have carried more weight if you hadn't lacked the maturity to first refrain from referring to them with a playground slur.

Don't you think?

Probably, but it wasn't the playground slur itself, but its scatological basis that suggested it. My thinking becomes overwhelmingly excrement-based when I think about this fiasco.

Anyhow, just so long as Jamba and his acolytes hang around for the next six months and beyond so that they can be held accountable.

But of course by then it will be 'petty foreigners' who won't bend over backwards to accommodate us. I mean what reasonable person wouldn't help someone who has just kicked them in the balls then come back cap in hand?

How we handle immigration, and benefits, is down to our government Jamba, not the EU, as your comment about the German benefit system reminds us. The EU is just the bogeyman for decisions made here. The UK government allowed Eastern European immigrants in when other EU countries did not, because it was massively in our national interest to do so. We don't do more (and we could do plenty more) about EU immigrants claiming benefits, because it is a non problem. The numbers are tiny, and the workers claiming those benefits are beneficial to our economy anyway.

Jamba - the EU types have always been pretty reasonable over displaced citizens (like as I understand it you and your wife alternately are). In fact going to see them this week has been the first positive move on the subject - unlike May's bargaining chip stance.

I think we ended up agreeing it'd take 10 years to settle down, and a generation before we might start been in a better place than now.

We had to leave now or we would have been crushed to death as per the Boa Constrictor metaphor I have used before.

I just don't buy it myself.

And even if I did, versus being walled in with people of the the general qualities of the leavers I have corresponded with, it's probably preferable.

That's one of the tragedies here, simultaneously with shafting the economy the leavers cancel FOM and kick the legs out from anyone trying to get away from the consequences of their vote. As I've said before, couldn't make it up!

[i]Michel Barnier, the Commission’s chief negotiator, has talked about how citizens must come first and the Spanish, who host the largest UK population in the EU, have repeatedly made clear that they would be happy with a reciprocal deal.[/I]

What! As many Spaniards could come here uncontrolled, we voted to CONTROL immigration, didn't we? 😉

haven't read all the posts and expect it's been mentioned but looks like EU hols and visits are going to be far more of a pain requiring electronic application with numerous boxes to tick as well as expensive not just because of the poor exchange rate but the cost of comprehensive medical insurance as a result of it being likely we'll lose EHIC and possibly all reciprocal healthcare. Many people with serious pre existing conditions may find travel prohibitively expensive. I reckon it's a total disaster and a waste of time and vast sums of money . This country is already a mess and brexiteers have added the final straw.Very Very foolish imo.

I find myself astonished at the near-consensus for remain here. Has common sense broken out on STW Chat while I've been away?

Binners, the whole banana discussion is one about EU interference, rules for rules sake

Do you know what the 'banana' rules actually are, Jam?

the UK has tried amd tried to get the EU to reform

Are you blaming the EU for not reforming, or the UK for being shit at reforming it? Ever think it might be the UK's fault?

And if it's the superstate threat you're so worried about, why not EEA? Why not soft Brexit?

the cost of comprehensive medical insurance as a result of it being likely we'll lose EHIC and possibly all reciprocal healthcare. Many people with serious pre existing conditions may find travel prohibitively expensive.

Probably my parents' last trip to Europe this summer then, in that case.

Probably my parents' last trip to Europe this summer then, in that case.

They should be OK for 2018.

molgrips - Member

Do you know what the 'banana' rules actually are, Jam?

Are they the ones that contribute to horrific food waste because the food looks a bit funny? 💡

I find myself astonished at the near-consensus for remain here

The whole straight banana thing was made up by boris johnson when he was a journalist covering europe

It was. There are rules for fruit and veg quality classification, and one of them says for the top grade that fruit must be of acceptable visual quality or something like that.

Don't be mad at Vote Leave, the responsibility for our exit lies with an intransigent EU. Junker et al took a hardline punt and lost.

Getting your excuses in early eh Jambalaya.