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If it's that much of a problem they could easily curb half the number of they really wanted, considering nearly half of them don't come from the EU. Personally I doubt it's much of a problem though and it's all bluster.Rockape63 - Member
Well after watching QT myself....I found myself coming down firmly on the side of the Brexiters.I do wonder what will happen here if 333k people come here every year. Currently I am fortunate that they are more of a help than a hindrance, but how long will that continue at that rate?
Plus I've not seem any reports about how many EU migrants actually stay here, it seems to be assumed that they will be a lifetime burden. Personally I doubt that, people, economic migrants in particular tend to want to return home at some point, ime.
mt - Member
Am getting a little bored with all the impending doom stuff now, am not sure I can stand this b.ll.cks for another month.
I think one things certain it's that politicians all need to take a long look at themselves. The standard of argument is pitiful. It's just playing to the lowest common denominator.
Am getting a little bored with all the impending doom stuff now, am not sure I can stand this b.ll.cks for another month
Tories innit. All they can do is negative campaign and scare tactics
As it worked before - election and scotland they are stuck in a rut
Just repeat what the IFS said ans STFU George as it must be losing voters They have done everything but predict my kids will be dumber if we leave.
The debate standard has been dire
The Leave version is to state balance of payments when saying the EU cannot afford for us to leave when in reality they would be harmed by the cessation of all trade where as we would be bankrupt without the EU trade.
Basically blue on blue leads to an exercise in who can do the most BS.
Immigration is a good argument for the Brexiters, easy to understand the forecasts are believable. A new city worth of immigrants every year! (never mind that half come from outside the EU...)
Economic forecasts are like pissing in the wind. I think remain should find another reason to stay aswell as the economic scare campaign. I think remain needs some other voices apart from the Tories. Ed (David) Milliband was pretty awful on QT, Caroline Lucas was better (workers rights, green issues etc)
Will Corbyn step up? I know he is doing pro EU rallies around the country. Don't blame him for not wanting to be on the TV with the Tories.
[i]Why was Steve Hilton still in his cycling kit? [/i]
'cos he lives in California, and is trying to be a 'dude'?
ctk - MemberWill Corbyn step up? I know he is doing pro EU rallies around the country. Don't blame him for not wanting to be on the TV with the Tories.
I think Corbyn is very much doing the old don't interrupt your enemies when they are making mistakes routine. He's quite right to be keeping his distance from what is basically a tory civil war.
I think a post brexit Scottish independence vote would have a different dynamic to the last one for two reasons, the price of oil has collapsed, they can't pretend they won't have to take on the Euro as currency
I think the campaigns on either side are dire, one observation is that if England was getting Scottish levels of immigration we probably wouldn't be having the referendum. Polish is now the second language in Lancashire for example. That kind of social pressure isn't seen in Scotland, Wales or NI
I'm on the fence, I think a brexit vote will lead others leaving the eu such as Sweden with the Eurocrats scrambling to create a alternative model to keep the cash coming in and stop the whole project imploding. But it may not and we could turn into a backwater with mass emmigration .....
big_n_daft
Polish is now the second language in Lancashire for example. That kind of social pressure isn't seen in Scotland, Wales or NI
That's pretty meaningless though, there's always going to be a second language. What was it before Polish? Anglo-Saxon?
seosamh77 - MemberI think one things certain it's that politicians all need to take a long look at themselves. The standard of argument is pitiful. It's just playing to the lowest common denominator.
In large part it's a loss of long term vision; project fear can win votes but not arguments. So if you consider the job to be "win this referendum" it looks like a great tactic but not if you look one day past it, it costs credibility and it creates resentment. People you terrorised into voting for your cause don't forget it.
"One more victory like this, and we are utterly undone"
Why was Steve Hilton still in his cycling kit?
Whatever would Cameron's mother say?
I think Corbyn is very much doing the old don't interrupt your enemies when they are making mistakes routine. He's quite right to be keeping his distance from what is basically a tory civil war.
+1
or as the old saying goes, "If in doubt, say now't"
one observation is that if England was getting Scottish levels of immigration we probably wouldn't be having the referendum
I don't really buy that, English numbers are skewed by london, so I doubt other places are massively different. ie glasgow is 92% white british, the english and welsh average is 86%, which like I say is skewed by london.
both london and glasgow are pro EU.
Perceived pressures in England are more just down to sheer weight of numbers and lack of the correct investment than anything else. immigration has little to do with it.
What are you saying Joe? You canna get a house, a doctors appointment, a bus etc anywhere because they're choc-a-block with Johnny Foreigner and his mates
so click on Vote Leave website and what do you get - an obvious lie about the cost of membership - when will this be placed by IMMIGRATION?
Or perhaps CONTROL - you know its not as if as part of the EU we cannot control
1. our own interest rates
2. our own tax rates
3. how the government spends our money
4. who makes up our government
5. should we prosecute an illegal war
6. should we prosecute legal wars
7. should we prosecute the prosecutor of illegal wars
8. should we drive on the LHS of the road
9. when shall we put the clocks back
10. should be have a monarchy or be a republic
11. should we make health care free at the point of delivery
12. should we provide free education, can some of it be delivered by faith schools, what should we teach our kids, ho should we examine them, should Uni courses be 2, 3 or 4 years
13. should we reject EU citizens with criminal records at our non-existent (?) borders
14. ETC....
Control, control, we must take control - is they're an impotence complex out there?
teamhurtmore - Member
What are you saying Joe? You canna get a house, a doctors appointment, a bus etc anywhere because they're choc-a-block with Johnny Foreigner and his mates
I'm happy enough with the services up here. I can phone up and get a doctors appointment same day if I like! 🙂 Plus I can't fault their efforts with my poor wee ma.
Plus I don't drive so I'm well versed in public transport, it's fairly decent tbh. 🙂 bit sparse after 6pm mind you.
ps I think you may have replied before I finished editing! 😉
Immigration is a good argument for the Brexiters, easy to understand the forecasts are believable. A new city worth of immigrants every year! (never mind that half come from outside the EU...)
I think the votes of those motivated by this issue are in the bag and they need to be careful about not looking like racists as this wont attract the middle ground voters.
Not really
Economic forecasts are like pissing in the wind.
No person nor institution[who is not a brexit supporter] is saying anything different. The consensus is we, and the world, will be harmed by leaving.
Polish is now the second language in Lancashire for example. That kind of social pressure isn't seen in Scotland, Wales or NI
Three in my [Lancashire] street all go to my kids school
All lovely what social pressure am I meant to be experiencing?
😆eamhurtmore - Member
What are you saying Joe? You canna get a house, a doctors appointment, a bus etc anywhere because they're choc-a-block with Johnny Foreigner and his matesso click on Vote Leave website and what do you get - an obvious lie about the cost of membership - when will this be placed by IMMIGRATION?
Or perhaps CONTROL - you know its not as if as part of the EU we cannot control
1. our own interest rates
2. our own tax rates
3. how the government spends our money
4. who makes up our government
5. should we prosecute an illegal war
6. should we prosecute legal wars
7. should we prosecute the prosecutor of illegal wars
8. should we drive on the LHS of the road
9. when shall we put the clocks back
10. should be have a monarchy or be a republic
11. should we make health care free at the point of delivery
12. should we provide free education, can some of it be delivered by faith schools, what should we teach our kids, ho should we examine them, should Uni courses be 2, 3 or 4 years
13. should we reject EU citizens with criminal records at our non-existent (?) borders
14. ETC....Control, control, we must take control - is they're an impotence complex out there?
Guess I replied before you finished editing! 😉
Polish is now the second language in Lancashire for example.
What would your second language preference be?
One thing that is starting to become clear to me is that those that want out, want to do it for positive reasons. Its a 'can do' attitude, rather than 'ooer, it might all go tits up if we leave', attitude if we stay.
We are a big strong country and we can stand up for ourselves. History is on our side. Okay we may have a few wobbles in the coming years, but we'll find a way to make it work.....because we can do it!
One thing that is starting to become clear to me is that those that want out, want to do it for positive reasons
Throwing your mandate with our nearest and biggest trading block in the bin doesn't seem particularly positive to me.
We can cope with freedom of movement of people....no, really we can!!!
'kin ell 75m Turks about to clog up the NHS - were doomed....
teamhurtmore - MemberWe can cope with freedom of movement of people....no, really we can!!!
yes, if we actually address the issue.
what we need to do: massive national projects building houses/ transport/ power generation/ schools/ hospitals/ water treatment/ etc. LOTS of support for societal cohesion.
what we're actually doing: roughly **** all. Except of course handing the problem directly over to the nationalists, on a big shiny plate.
Polish is now the second language in Lancashire for example. That kind of social pressure isn't seen in Scotland, Wales or NI
Polish is the second language in Edinburgh too. HTH. Urdu 3rd IIRC.
One thing that is starting to become clear to me is that those that want out, want to do it for positive reasons. Its a 'can do' attitude, rather than 'ooer, it might all go tits up if we leave', attitude if we stay.
yes its like some great motivational speech by some ill informed person incapable of assessing the risks/willfully ignoring them as they make us both jump out the plane after the one parachute they just threw out. as then shout
C'mon we are big strong [s]country [/s] people and we can stand up for ourselves. History is on our side. Okay we may have a few wobbles in the coming [s]years[/s] plunge, but we'll find a way to make it work.....because we can do it!
There is a line been optimistic and hopelessly misguided jingoistic drivel.
what we need to do: massive national projects building houses/ transport/ power generation/ schools/ hospitals/ water treatment/ etc. LOTS of support for societal cohesion.
True - funded by growth
what we're actually doing: roughly * all.
Oh, I see.
Now these folk who are currently do * all are suddenly going to take control and sort it all out. The Brexit Alchemy.
Perhaps, I should change my vote?
[i]There is a line been optimistic and hopelessly misguided jingoistic drivel.[/i]
In your extremely humble opinion Junky olde Fruit!
i fort cockney was the second langwidge?
English is the second language here in Northumberland.
i fort cockney was the second langwidge?
Not when you're trying to pretend you're not here.
There is a line been optimistic and hopelessly misguided jingoistic drivel.
Whenever I think of the brexit campaign or the people who support it, the overriding image in my head is that of a football hooligan draped in a flag shouting 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough', and I've seen very little so far to change that image.
Out of interest....what do France and Germany buy from us?
....and what is the trade deficit on those two countries with the UK THM?
teamhurtmore - MemberTrue - funded by growth
what growth? i'd vote for tax rises.
or, do you mean we should wait for growth, before doing something?
(genuine question, interesting topic)
teamhurtmore - Member
By smiling when caught out telling the usual porkies bu both Lucas and Dimbleby??Lifer - Member
Chewkw - Member
David Davis just wiped the floor off those remain in Question Time ... How so?
He answered all the questions calmly and logically while the opposition kept shouting at him without giving him the chance to answer.
I laughed my head off when Lucas pretended to be "polite and to be calm" when Dreda Say Mitchell disagreed with her and Vote Out.
Did you see Lucas trying to keep up the fake smile when she is confronted by minority?
Lucas, I am sure a nice person, is on fairyland land completely out of touch with ordinary people who think differently from her. Out of touch!
and where do taxes come from?
yes we have a trade deficit, and.....? what does that have to do with membership of the trade zone - do you want to make it even harder?
Positive Mental Attitude - c'mon THM stop with the negative waves
yep all neggy stuff but no real facts!
Rockape - the smiley emoji can be found on the top RH corner of the box we type in
As you have all the facts, you tell me, what do the French and Germans buy from us? And how will that differ with Brexit eg,
Will our goods be more or less expensive (assuming they buy any at all) as a non-member of the trade zone?
Will their goods be more or less expensive for us to buy - remember all the Audi buying MTBers here?
How will Brexit help reduce our trade deficit that I assume you are concerned about?
Rockape - the smiley emoji can be found on the top RH corner of the box we type in
🙂 so it is!
Anyway, its Friday lunchtime....so Im off to the Pub! 8)
(in my Audi)
Lifer - I am positive about the future. In an imperfect world we are members of one of the world's most important trade zones with all the obvious benefits that this brings. At the same time, we have avoided some of the disadvantages real (Euro) and perceived (Schengen).
So probably more by accident than design we end up in a great position - one that helps to explain our relatively strong economic performance.
Its pretty good and POSITIVE from where I stand. Madness to throw this all away on vague concepts of control and the xenophobia surrounding immigration
Sorry THM that was tongue in cheek, I too think that Remain is a positive choice.
Avoid the Kronenberg or the clarets/riesling
Nice British ale or some Nyetimber bubbly or Denbies over-priced wine!!
BUY BRITISH!!!!
Bon Appetit (oops that's French) - looking forward to the answers on your return
Lifer - I know, thats fine. I was adding detail (facts eh?) not disagreeing!!
Rockape63 - Member
yep all neggy stuff but no real facts!
What facts do Brexit have to support them?
teamhurtmore - Member
Lifer - I know, thats fine. I was adding detail (facts eh?) not disagreeing!!
Ah okay! I didn't want to be mistaken as being 'leave' is all.
err...
It costs us £350m a week - its there on the bus and the website. A blatant lie in all its glory
We have no control over anything
The bloody Turks are already in the EU - all 75m of them
The European court controls our borders
The money "saved " (sic) will solve the NHS crisis
Why does anyone want to trade with Europe, its terminally fu**ed
We contribute to the ESF despite not being in the EZ
All those UK institutions that we discredit now will be fine post Brexit
The French has BO and bad breath
All Greeks are crooks
Do we need any more?
Boris told off again today over the £350 million. Won't the establishment ever leave him alone (incidentally, Rees-Mogg trying to be anti-establishment the other was absolutely brilliant)
I quite like JR-M (he was a client many moons ago) but he is getting himself in a bit of a pickle here!
I did feel a bit for old Ed last night with the "Dave" thing. He took it very well and looked relaxed and on rel good form, but deep down that must grate
All I can say is I've come to the conclusion that there are a lot of things wrong with the UK, but none of them will be fixed by leaving the EU (and some could be made worse, but that is conjecture), so I'm voting to stay.
Do we need any more?
Cucumbers and fishing.