[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

One thing that is starting to become clear to me is that those that want out, want to do it for positive reasons

Really? Most of what I hear is 'EU IS A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS taking away our sovereignty letting immigrants steal our jobs taking our money and interfering with our bananas'

As for the historical arguement - what? It's never been 2016 before!

[b]All British Commonwealth Citizen please Vote OUT.[/b]

If you vote in you will have NO chance of getting a job in the UK & EU.

This is because you know have to compete with the entire EU citizen so your probability of getting a job is getting lower every day UK is in EU.

Remember you, British Commonwealth Citizen, have been told when you tried to apply for a job that you could only be given the job if no EU citizen can do it? Remember?

Ya, if you vote in you can kiss your prospect goodbye.

I quite like JR-M

To add a bit more detail about the ticking off of both camps by the treasury select committee I have just heard Andrew tyrie chairman of the Committee on R4 world at one laying into both sides economic claims, but particular scorn was aimed at the £350m per week claim plastered on the Brexitbus. I think 'completely bogus' were the words used. It follows a unamimous report saying much the same by the committee which includes Jacob Rees-Mogg. So the latter agrees the figure is incorrect, which is surprising but welcome.
Andrew Tyrie suggested that the bus should be resprayed

Rockape63 - Member
yep all neggy stuff but no real facts!

here's a bank-holiday-weekend topical issue:

see all those Beautiful British Blue-Flag beaches? we can thank the EU for those.

[img] http://www.visitwales.com/~/media/99aa97e0e8b240e6bc90f557f8782e69.ashx?as=0&h=350&w=1024 [/img]

thanks EU, our own goverment didn't give a toss.

(even now, Westminster is fighting hard to make sure our air stays polluted)

ahwiles - Member
thanks EU, our own goverment didn't give a toss.

The locals or the people don't give a toss.

Or it says a lot about people upbringing by not taking care of their own dwelling innit. I don't mean you living in the sea but a where we all enjoy.

No, it says a lot about EU restrictions on what companies can and can't dump into the sea. Personal waste is a very small part of beach and water quality.

I can't wait until the EU forces our government to do more with renewables, in a similar fashion.

mikey74 - Member

Or it says a lot about people upbringing by not taking care of their own dwelling innit. I don't mean you living in the sea but a where we all enjoy.

No, it says a lot about EU restrictions on what companies can and can't dump into the sea. Personal waste is a very small part of beach and water quality

It must be nice there in la-la land

[img] [/img]

Meanwhile, a colleague of mine is going absolutely radge, because you need to pay for a stamp if you want to apply for a postal vote. Apparently this is undemocratic, and she has rights.

[i]I[/i] think if a stamp is too much to pay to vote, you can get to ****.

mikey74 - Member
It must be nice there in la-la land

Northwind - Member

Meanwhile, a colleague of mine is going absolutely radge, because you need to pay for a stamp if you want to apply for a postal vote. Apparently this is undemocratic, and she has rights.

I think if a stamp is too much to pay to vote, you can get to ****.

Ban ALL postal vote I say.

See because the head of those companies have no proper upbringing for not being able to distinguish the good from the bad. Have they been taught when they were children that they should not harm the environment or take what is not given by the nature?

That's pretty meaningless though, there's always going to be a second language. What was it before Polish? Anglo-Saxon?

Gujarati followed by Punjabi and Urdu I believe

What would your second language preference be?

no preference, essentially it's an observation

glasgow is 92% white british, the english and welsh average is 86%, which like I say is skewed by london.

the observation isn't about who is here but the rate of change, in ten years one population has superceded the others which is on the face of it a significant change

as I said I'm on the fence regarding Brexit so bring on the lectures to influence my vote

pondo - Member
Tell me, have you ever visited the planet Earth?

Tell me if you have been taught well as a child not to harm the planet?

If you have why are you still doing it as an adult?

Are you responsible for your action?

Northwind - Member

I think if a stamp is too much to pay to vote, you can get to ****.

Turns out the bloody electoral register office is about 20 minutes walk away! She doesn't even need to splurge the 54p for a stamp.

Freedom isn't free.

Tell me, have you ever visited the planet Earth?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop?hl=en-GB

Ability to block certain posters on chrome whilst on STW

the observation isn't about who is here but the rate of change, in ten years one population has superceded the others which is on the face of it a significant change

big_n_daft - Member
the observation isn't about who is here but the rate of change, in ten years one population has superceded the others which is on the face of it a significant change

Change isn't restricted to england. i don't accept change is bad either.

incidentally the glasgow city number is actually 88% white british these days.

Junkyard - lazarus

Tell me, have you ever visited the planet Earth?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop?hl=en-GB

Ability to block certain posters on chrome whilst on STW

What's that Junky? Hhmmm ... Hello!

Junky, are you trying to befriend me now or taking a side swipe at me? 😛

You still have not explained what you are when you said "I am not English!"

Why are you so ashamed of saying what you are?

Junky, you are not very consistent aren't you ... 😛

Are you a recalcitrant? (a term I learned from ex-OzLand PM)

The treasury select committee report on the £350m claim

36.Vote Leave has said that £350m a week is “the core number”, and that it is using the number “again and again”. It is very unfortunate that they have chosen to place this figure at the heart of their campaign. This has been done in the face of overwhelming evidence, including that of the Chair of the UK Statistics Authority, demonstrating that it is misleading. Without qualification this is unavoidable. Brexit will not result in a £350m per week fiscal windfall to the Exchequer as a consequence of ending the UK’s contributions to the EU budget. Despite having been presented with the evidence contradicting this claim, Vote Leave has subsequently placed the £350m figure on its campaign bus, and on much of its recent campaign literature. The public should discount this claim. Vote Leave’s persistence with it is deeply problematic. It sits very awkwardly with its promises to the Electoral Commission to work in a spirit that reflects its “very significant responsibility” and the “gravity of the choice facing the British people”.

Ability to block certain posters on chrome whilst on STW

Bloody establishment stooges (great tribute band BTW)

[Tannoy] Slight hijack! Someone is wrong! 😆 [Tannoy]

pondo - Member

Ability to block certain posters on chrome whilst on STW

Bless you sir!

Yes, but Junky has to adopt my line of arguments in other threads.

Junky has also proved my point that we are not rational.

Junky, I notice that you adopted my line of argument. I see youuu!

Not a very original thinker I am afraid because I am the ONLY person using that line of arguments on STW.

Got you! 3 times now. 😆

Got you! 3 times now

[img] [/img]

[u]For the brexit voters, or anyone who is undecided.[/u]

There are a lot of figures flying around at the moment about immigration and the cost of being in the EU- "record numbers" of this or "highest ever" of that. But without knowing the overall context what do the figures actually mean?

Let's look at the big picture. This chart shows how the UK spends its money. Note the blue band at the top that is the cost of EU membership - £18bn. We get 5bn back as an instant rebate. On top of this the EU spends £4bn on us for [b]farming[/b] and poorer areas like [b]Wales and Cornwall[/b]. It will be up to the government to keep paying the farmers (and wales and cornwall) if we leave the EU. So, the actual figure is closer to 9bn. The biggest chunks are welfare and health.

[img] [/img]

figures from [url= https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ ]THIS[/url] website.

[u]What pecentage of Welfare is claimed by EU migrants?[/u]

According to [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11255425/How-much-do-immigrants-really-claim-in-benefits.html ]THIS[/url] article by The Telegraph

The data from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and HMRC, also show that the majority of welfare recipients are British.

In 2014, 4.9 million (92.6 per cent) working age benefit claimants were British while only 131,000 (2.5 per cent) were EU nationals.

[b]92.6%[/b] of benefit claimants in 2014 were [b]British[/b]. Remember, we have had Black and Asian immigrants in this country now for a couple of generations so stopping EU migrants now is not going to decrease that remaining 7.3%.

[u]So who uses the health service? Surely there are savings to be made there by leaving Europe?[/u]

To ansewer this question, we have to assume that the users of the NHS represent a cross-section of society. There will be areas where the migrant population is higher like Bradford and London and areas where migrant population is lower like Devon and Cornwall. Most of it is obviously being used by our own indigenous ageing population, in other words old white British peole. Anyone who has been to a hospital recently or works in hospitals as i have for the last 4 years knows this, and if you don't believe me walk into your nearest hospital and have a look. Full of old people it is.

So to the percentage population figures for the UK:

According to Fullfact.org around 3 million people living in the UK in 2014 were citizens of another EU country. That’s about 5% of the UK population.

In other words 5% of that chunk in the chart above account for EU migrants who use the NHS.

But the evidence indicates that the majority of EU migrants coming to the UK are younger and fitter and therefore use it LESS that the UK population.

So the answer is NO, EU migrants aren't clogging up our NHS, not really.

[u]EU migrants contribute more to our economy than they take out[/u]

In fact, according to [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study ]recent[/url] studies, EU migrants could contribute up to £20bn to the UK economy, enough to pay for the EU membership twice over.

So to all the people who say that the money we save from EU membership can be pumped back into the NHS.....you are kidding yourselves. It will hardly make a dent. Likewise it's not EU migrants who are taking your benefits and clogging up your NHS - it's you!.

Taking us out of Europe will save us 9bn a year but (pretending all the EU migrants will have to go back home straight away) we will lose their 20bn contribution to our economy so we will already be 11bn down.

Then there is farming. Do we really trust the government to pay the farmers as much as they are getting now? The EU farming subsidies pay for not just food production (to give us cheap milk etc.) but upkeep of the land including of the countyside you and I like to ride our bikes around on. Given the recent [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-36356245 ]fracking in North Yorkshire[/url] despite only 36 out of 4420 representations being in favour, what's to say that the government won't simply run the farms into the ground and sell off the land for fracking?

Leaving the EU would mean more power in the hands of the government, but that is not necessarily a good thing.

I don't know about you but i LIKE being part of a cosmopolitan society. I like having the freedom to go and live and work in the EU, if i so choose. Isolating ourselves from the rest of Europe will do us more harm than good and the arguments for leaving are pretty weak when you see them for what they are. We stand to lose a lot more than we can ever gain from exiting.

Do you want this?
[img] [/img]

or this?
[img] [/img]

The choice is yours 😆

Some more reasons why we should stay in the EU, if anyone is interested [url= http://infacts.org/mythbust/ ]http://infacts.org/mythbust/[/url]

I played no part in its creation but its a joy to see nothing he says,

Drac - Moderator

😆 Is that a solid gold or gold plated?

Junkyard - lazarus
I played no part in its creation but its a joy to see nothing he says,

Obvious is obvious. So funny! 😆

bomberman - Member
Do you want this?

or this?

Just like the UK most (generally speaking) of those who live abroad find it hard to earn a living here ...

see all those Beautiful British Blue-Flag beaches? we can thank the EU for those.

You can thank the EU for the regulations, the Blue flag bit is an NGO that is based in Denmark (nothing to do with EU)

The Blue Flag was created in France in 1985 as a pilot scheme where French coastal municipalities were awarded the Blue Flag on the basis of criteria covering sewage treatment and bathing water quality.

Blue Flag on European Community level in 1987[edit]
1987 was the "European Year of the Environment" and the European Commission was responsible for developing the European Community activities of that year. The Foundation for Environmental Education in Europe (FEEE) presented the concept of the Blue Flag to the Commission, and it was agreed to launch the Blue Flag Programme as one of several "European Year of the Environment" activities in the Community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Flag_beach#History

I know nothing more than this - i know nothing at all before i searched- and only googled out of interest

Do you have a link nick?

great post bomberman!

nope, I read it in a newspaper a couple of weeks back!! 😆

seosamh77 - Member
great post bomberman!

You do know that long reply does not automatically mean they are rational? Yes?

Have you ever noticed politician replying to questions? Have you noticed the way politicians drag on their reply in a long winded ways so not to let other response? A good example is the Sturgent response tactic ... she can keep going on and on about stretching the sentence without answering.

What question did you ask again? I mean what are you answering? 😆

chewkw, have you ever noticed, everyone ignores you...

seosamh77 - Member
chewkw, have you ever noticed, everyone ignores you...

Yes, I have ...

Several reasons:

1. They are unable to counter my views.
2. My interpretation is completely different from theirs.
3. They do not understand how to handle a different cultural response.
4. I am just one person so not worth the effort to reply to my views.

However, I am here to provide alternative views based on a far flung culture which judging from STW profile is truly lacking.

Also, I noticed that the ones that response to me are genuine people that truly know how to communicate.

nickc - Member

You can thank the EU for the regulations....

Quite.

😆

seosamh77 - Member

😆 Yes, indeed.

Some of them really take themselves very seriously which is puzzling to say the least.

Few even gone into some soft of huff can you imagine that?

Chill man, chill, pipe down ... relax.

http://www.blueflag.global/our-people/

here you go Junky...

seosamh77 - Member
great post bomberman!

Thanks. Hope someone who actually cares about the debate can sift through all the noise in this thread and find some real answers.

CHeers for link

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/27/misleading-eu-referendum-campaigns-treasury-select-committee-report ]MPs' report condemns 'misleading' EU referendum campaigns
Cross-party committee attacks both sides but is particularly scathing about assertion that Brexit would save £350m a week[/url]

even the politicians are annoyed with the politicians

Thanks. Hope someone who actually cares about the debate can sift through all the noise in this thread and find some real answers.

I have to admit your post helped clarify a few of my thoughts, and introduced a few more 🙂

good article Junky, hasn't Tyrie had run-in's with Boris before? I remember them going at each other in a committee? (or did I dream that?)

I've just watched "Brexit the Movie" and if the boss of JML is wanting out then that's good enough for me...

Having now made up my mind to stay, 100%, I am now fearful, like you, that the only ones who will be compelled to vote in numbers are those who are in favour of leaving.

You also touched on a point that has been really bugging me, since this whole referendum was announced: When it was confirmed who were going to lead the two campaigns, I was fearful this would come down to a vote of personality i.e. vote for the side led by the personality you hate the least. I have even heard people say they will vote to leave, purely because it will get rid of Cameron. That is no foundation on which to base such an important decision, especially as Cameron's position is not up for question here.

[i]I wasn't even registered to vote until yesterday[/i]

So how long has it been since you CBA'd to vote?