[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

I'm not sure that DD is dim as such

Very cheap way to dismiss people that have different views.

Ok, DD didnt do well enough in his A levels, but he saved money, retook them then went to Warwick Uni, London Business School and Harvard. Misguided, true, dim, hardly.

Then spent almost 2 decades in "real" work.

Looks like the Knives are out for Phil. And its nowt to do with his budget. Thats just an excuse. Its the fact that he's the only grown up in the room. The only one on the front bench with the temerity to point out that driving the countries economy off a cliff might not be the best idea anyone's ever had. And as we know, non-believers, as well as experts, have no place in this particular asylum

I'm not sure that DD is dim as such
Very cheap way to dismiss people

absolutely, hes not dim

and he did very well, but his best days are obviously behind him if he really hasnt bothered to investigate the repurcussions of no deal

Dim I said and dim I mean. Davies is so out of touch and so incompetent that its no longer funny

He has made no plans and no assessment of something he says would be good for the country.

and he did very well, but his best days are obviously behind him if he really hasnt bothered to investigate the repurcussions of no deal

But he has, there is a government wide exericse that his department is managing, he just see little value in putting a number on something which would still be based on a lot of assumptions. Listening to his evidence, it soon becomes apparent that the size of his job is frightening - but he is well across his brief.

“And more than that, I think it wouldn’t be fair to the people of [s]Scotland[/s] the UK because they’re being asked to make a crucial decision without all the necessary information - without knowing what the future partnership would be, or what the alternative of [s]an independent Scotland[/s] the UK would look like.”

Listening to his evidence, it soon becomes apparent that the size of his job is frightening

yeah, good job no one would vote for such an insane thing.....

“And more than that, I think it wouldn’t be fair to the people of Scotland the UK because they’re being asked to make a crucial decision without all the necessary information - without knowing what the future partnership would be, or what the alternative of an independent Scotland the UK would look like.”

But the Government did do an analysis at the time of the referendum, it was pretty negative, but still we voted out, so out we go.

Really Mefty?

We were told that we would be staying in the single market but able to stop all those nasty furriners coming here amo0ngst other such stupid stuff

Could you please link to this assessment the government made before the vote? It must have been published somewhewre

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/beware-cult-brexit/

Worth a read, good point about delaying A50 until the Autumn.

[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524967/hm_treasury_analysis_the_immediate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf ]Here you go[/url] and [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517415/treasury_analysis_economic_impact_of_eu_membership_web.pdf ]here[/url]

But the Government did do an analysis at the time of the referendum, it was pretty negative, but still we voted out, so out we go.

so thats why Davies hasnt bothered to do any analysis, so that the SNP cant use it as ammo for the indy referndum, 😉

Or is it that this frightening task is beyond him?
(or anyone in government, [u]single[/u] sector projects like NHS contracts, heathrow expansion, NHS IT system, universal credit rollout, MOD purchasing overrun by decades and £billions, yet this bumbling old geezer is going to get it all nailed in a few months...)

Ta mefty

I thought you meant something different to that.

Well I've spent a happy day with civil servants in Whitehall taking the p out of government ministers.

I must say they have very little respect for quite a few of those ministers.

DD is hardly going to sit on TV and say "yes the analysis of WTO exit is potentially very bad for the UK economy" the man is for too shrewd for that.

The numbers will have been crunched by the treasury, it's likley that Hammonds £60 billion is just the "seed" money to deal with the initial fall out. I don't doubt that a WTO exit will ultimately get fixed (probably not by the incumbent muppets) but we will endeavour made to suffer both directly and indirectly. Makes me chuckle when the Brexiteers trumpet £240m investment by toyota in the UK as if its a panacea (most of that investment be "unbolted" in a matter of weeks)

All these little investments (toyota nissan etc) are designed to create a dependency on those organisations by the government, the fact is these organisations contain significantly more talent that our government.

That leaked Brexit tour schedule looks punishing

[img] [/img]

DD is hardly going to sit on TV and say "yes the analysis of WTO exit is potentially very bad for the UK economy" the man is for too shrewd for that.

But that explanation would imply that he was lying to a Parliamentary Committee. I'm not sure that that's an explanation he'd like to become widely accepted.

I don't think he is lying about "him" doing the numbers in fact I think he is avoiding doing the numbers like the plague.

Last thing he needs is an "inhouse" Brexiteer report that says WTO is a bit shit

Well I've spent a happy day with civil servants in Whitehall taking the p out of government ministers.

I must say they have very little respect for quite a few of those ministers.

Respect generally has to be earned. The Brexiteers are patently a bunch of clueless muppets, waaaaaay out of their depth, and making it up as they go along, while desperately trying to avoid any oversight or scrutiny

I have raised this before but it continues to boil my ****

Theresa and the Brexiteers are wandering around calling for us all to work together to fix brexit?

Ok so if the Vote had been remain the vast majority of those voting to leave would have trundled along still getting yhe same rewards for the same efforts and those voting remain would have trundled along also - no serious effort or sacrifice required.

So it seems to me that the effort to fix brexit seems to fall on those who voted to remain (broad demographic statement I agree) it's not going to be pensioners, working poor or the filthy rich right.

So my feeling is a bit like having a randon stranger taking a shit in my house and me having to clean it up while the stranger looks on?

I am arriving at the point of view that this is not my doing, my fault or responsibility to fix. I have emotionally liked my front door (the back door is on the latch for a sharp exit)

oldmanmtb - Member
I don't think he is lying about "him" doing the numbers in fact I think he is avoiding doing the numbers like the plague.

Last thing he needs is an "inhouse" Brexiteer report that says WTO is a bit shit

This!

theres a great fear among the brexiters that the longer it drags on and is scrutinised the more likely the public are going to change their mind
which is why they are in such a rush to get A50 started and desperate to avoid any sort of parliamentary oversight or public consultation on brexit

TBH the last thing you can accuse them of is rushing to declare A50 - did dave not say the day after?
I agree they dont want parliament to have a say as they know they will most likely reject the deal as it will be terrible.

Granted they wont have a plan for WTO as it will show how disastrous this will be

I hope this is the reason rather than hubris has meant they have not imagined that they wont get what they want - they wont they have not a hope

TBH the last thing you can accuse them of is rushing to declare A50 - did dave not say the day after?

Meanwhile May keeps bleating on about a more united Great Britain - which is wishful thinking of the highest order. If we are in the EU half the population is apparently unhappy. If we are out of the EU half the population is apparently unhappy. That would make you think working out some consensus position would be advisable. Wouldn't it?

OldmanMTB - I have noted the various initiatives I've been involved with and the Brexy absenteeism on those initiatives already on this thread.
I have also challenged the Brexies on this thread to come forward and tell us what they are doing to make Britain great as someone put it.
The vast cacophony of silence suggests they aren't doing anything - but prove me wrong please Brexies.

She could have circumvented the court case and git ascent from parliament had she wished - it would have been faster and the outcome was hardly in doubt.

A50 will be triggered before the end of the month. That all seems pretty quick to me.

If the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away.”

We could be half way to leaving by now so what has been done is many things but quick is not one of them

We could be half way to leaving by now

theres a great fear among the brexiters that the longer it drags on and is scrutinised the more likely the public are going to change their mind

I haven't spoken to a single Leaver who thinks this. Most are frustrated A50 hasn't been triggered sooner and there is a degree of mistrust that MPs won't follow through. What has not borne scruitiny in tje Project Armageddon nonesencpse of Remain. We had some more yesterday suggesting Brexit would substantially decrease cyber security. Lidicrous.

Not one of the "impact" assesments I have read includes any scenarios where we sign new trade deals with growth markets or where the eurozone unwinds and crashes Europe into a deep recession.

As per he Indy thread Brexit has the added benefit of killing the idea of an Independent Scotland stone dead.

Brexit has the added benefit of killing the idea of an Independent Scotland stone dead.

🙄

@oldman I think the point is that we would like everyone to accept the result and get on with their lives. Mefty and TeamHurtmore supported Remain but they are of the view that the decision is made and its best we make the most of the opportunities ahead.

I said right back at the start this would be a once only opportunity. We would NEVER be asked again. The only option for Leavers would be a UKIP Government. I suppose from a Remainers perspective the same is true, elect a Government with a manifesto commitment to re-join the EU

Wheras I am sure as are almost all commentators that
1) leaving the EU will be a complete disaster
2) If the vote was held again now the result would be different now its becoming more and more obvious to everyone what a disaster it will be.

for me we need to resist as hard as we can. Its the only possible thing we can do to prevent the disaster that will be leaving the EU and I want all my elected representatives to do everything they can to stop this disaster unfolding.

I haven't spoken to a single Leaver who thinks this.

I have. You need to speak to more people outside the religious zealot Brexy bubble. 😉

People related to farming mainly as the trade deals we might strike are quite worrying to them. (Farm payments weren't mentioned)

I think the point is that we would like everyone to accept the result and get on with their lives.

As per he Indy thread Brexit has the added benefit of killing the idea of an Independent Scotland stone dead.

The problem Jamba is that Brexies are not getting off their sorry behinds and doing anything to help this country.

Bunch of wreckers sadly.

Or prove me wrong and tell me which new initiatives to increase UK exports you are actively involved in. DIT stuff, UK SIN, proving training and insight to our foreign trade missions that sort of thing.

If you look at data rather than anecdote, the polls shows no change in heart, if anything they show a slightly stronger resolve. Likewise I haven't seen any commentators changing their view.

mefty - whereas I have seen the other quite clearly in the polls 😉 and people changing their minds although almost all political commentators and our elected representatives are already against leaving.

As per he Indy thread Brexit has the added benefit of killing the idea of an Independent Scotland stone dead.

Its statements like this that lead to folk just calling you jambyliar as the facts just do not support this claim
Its so silly even spicer would choose not to defend that and say ask the president
Its statements like this that make me thing you just troll as its just at odds with what is happening- even May has accepted their will be another vote she is only disputing when most folk would not consider that as having killed it

[url= https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/11/03/five-stages-grief-most-remain-voters-are-stuck-den/ ]THis is a good survey[/url]

[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-no-regrets-brexit-polling-8882527 ]Briton has no regrets about Brexit[/url]

[quote=mefty ]Briton has no regrets about Brexit

An article from September 16

And in the survey at the bottom

"Is Professor John Curtice right?"

Yes - 33%
No - 66%

😆

It is a John Curtis overview, polls have gone both ways but there is no consistent trend which suggests any remorse.

But that is a self selecting survey, statistically as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Given referenda involve leaving the house and voting, they are also self selecting Mefty.

Discuss

There is nothing to regret yet. Come back in 2 years time after asking the same question.

Discuss

It's referendums.

Fighting talk there Mefty.