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why no A50 this week ?
Can we stay in, please, just so we can Veto Scotland joining
Ha ha brilliant !
Fourbanger we are all very much aware, we voted for exactly that.
@chris explanations I have heard from tv
Dutch election Wednesday, don't want to interfere / take headlines / encourage Wilders supporters
Week after 60th Treaty of Rome anniversary jamboree (wake 😉 ) don't want to upstage
EU meeting scheduled for April 6 so a week prior and as per May's end of March schedule ?
Kimbers two different things. EU workers will have their rights (well some rights) guaranteed as an early part of the negotiations as per May's statements. I have little doubt the EU academics on existing contracts will be allowed to stay till the end of those contracts. 3 millions EU citizens most working in the UK, 1 million UK citizens in Europe split between those working and those retired.
igm was speaking more about funding and co-operation.
igm Trump will be very open with the UK, two wealthy countries / equals. Ditto Canada. His issues are with asymmetric relationships like US / Mexico..
Trump is cutting back on supporting academic research.
Trump will however cooperate with the UK provided it is clearly to his advantage. That's how bullies operate.
I have little doubt the EU academics on existing contracts will be allowed to stay till the end of those contracts.
I have to say I'm amazed how one sentence can contain so much ignorance about research contracts, academic careers, funding cycles, job security, the UK research environment, contribution of overseas researchers to UK science, etc.
I accept that wilful ignorance and a desire to make sweeping statements without bothering to examine the issues at hand seems to be in vogue these days but, seriously, those who work in the research sector look at these kinds of comments and just have to wonder exactly what planet the commentator is on (leaving aside the startling lack of compassion and humanity for those actively contributing to the UK).
I don't comment on particle physics, cake baking or financial trading because I know almost nothing about them and don't want to look stupid by putting my simplistic and probably wrong opinion out there. I know my contribution on these topics will be worthless at best and may actually cause problems by misinformation as people who can't fully assess me or the context of my comments assume that because I am prepared to say something it warrants equal merit as someone who does know what they are talking about.
I suggest you give this concept some thought.
Well after this week there will be little reason for the 48 to cooperate with the Brexies I guess.
Time to let them have it both barrels for damaging our country.
I have to say I'm amazed how one sentence can contain so much ignorance about research contracts, academic careers, funding cycles, job security, the UK research environment, contribution of overseas researchers to UK science, etc.
Its a talent jamba seems to have !
EU researchers are already leaving
But it will be red white and blue! We'll all have artisanal jam for tea!
Trump will however cooperate with the UK provided it is clearly to his advantage. That's how bullies operate.
Trump as the president of the US will i hope do what is in the best interests of the US, i fear he will do what is in his best interests.
Thing is that neither the US's or Trumps interests are the same as the UK's
But at least we will have a new royal yacht!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-royal-yacht_uk_58c6fd24e4b081a56dee990b
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can anyone explain why are leaders are taking the country off a cliff edge? You don't have to be an expert to see what a monumental fur cup this is going to be. Surely they have something up the sleeve???
Can anyone explain why are leaders are taking the country off a cliff edge? You don't have to be an expert to see what a monumental fucckup this is going to be. Surely they have something up the sleeve???
If your rich change brings opportunities. The tories are wetting themselves at the prospect of getting rid of all the red tape (workers rights, NHS, etc).
Can anyone explain why are leaders are taking the country off a cliff edge? You don't have to be an expert to see what a monumental fucckup this is going to be. Surely they have something up the sleeve???
Because TM and her brexiteers are playing politics, will be quite comfortable whatever happens, will likely financially benefit directly or indirectly, and are more interested in making sure that they "win" in parliament rather than repair the country a make it a better place. They don't live in the real world and nor will they ever have to.
Never let a crisis go to waste.
Lords have passed bill without amendment, Article 50 is go - cue Thunderbirds theme
They don't live in the real world and nor will they ever have to.
To be fair not many academics do either.
mefty - Member
Lords have passed bill without amendment, Article 50 is go - cue[s] Thunderbirds[/s] Benny Hill theme
They don't live in the real world and nor will they ever have to.To be fair not many academics do either.
A cheap and factually incorrect jibe. The real world is just a place where you aim to work for a living, get paid appropriately for doing so and pay taxes commensurate with your earnings. Academics are just as much a part of that as anyone else on here.
Not to do a fact check but....
jambalaya - Member
Kimbers two different things. EU workers will have their rights (well some rights) guaranteed as an early part of the negotiations as per May's statements.
- Overreach and not gaurnteed at all. What gaurntee will they get in the end who knows - and some rights sounds a lot like much fewer rights than current situation so it's hard to know what the legal status of many will be.
I have little doubt the EU academics on existing contracts will be allowed to stay till the end of those contracts.
Unless you work for the government in the home office your confidence is in your guesswork not fact, would you apply and move for a position that could be terminated at any time - would anyone want to employ somebody for a long term project knowing they may not have the right to remain - why not move the research job to the Eu and have ZERO uncertainty.
3 millions EU citizens most working in the UK, 1 million UK citizens in Europe split between those working and those retired.
3 Million contribute where 1 Million are a drain? It just means that now there are 4 millions bargaining chips on the table.
The real world is just a place where you aim to work for a living, get paid appropriately for doing so
As an academic I'd be delighted to be payed appropriately ! 😉
It was quite a patronising comment, but ever since the referendum the right have reveled in dismissing 'experts'
A cheap and factually incorrect jibe.
Maybe but no worse than yours about politicians, or do you have some superior entitlement to make such comments?
Apparently lots of politicians are not real people, the colour of their rosettes is the tell tale sign
Good that's bill passed. No lets have a quick bilateral agreement on citizens rights. The sensible way to do things.
Apparently lots of politicians are real people, the colour of their rosettes is the tell tale sign
Explain please? Can't work out if you are being serious or trolling someone..... 😳
Goog, that bill passed. No lets have a quick bilateral agreement on citizens rights. The sensible way to do things.
Sensible would've been TM making a pledge to honour EU citizens rights as a goodwill gesture, then there'd have been no fuss in the Lords.
Sadly Brexishambles will be a drawn out affair as May plays to her own Tory swivel eyed europhobes as well as negotiating with the EU,
a situation that has already given Sturgeon the excuse she was looking for.
Maybe but no worse than yours about politicians, or do you have some superior entitlement to make such comments?
No, but the behaviour, personal situations and income streams of TM and her brexit buddies are by and large matters of public record. And I didn't say ALL politicians did I, just TM and the brexiteers.
Ah its only the Brexiteers because no one could have a different view to you without being in its for themselves, do you wear a hair shirt to ensure purity?
No, I didn't say or imply that at all. TM and the brexiteers (DD, LF and BJ) will not suffer personally as a result of whatever they do. They haven't shown evidence of being good, moral even well informed human beings so why but should I trust in them to deliver for the country? The rest of us could suffer greatly as a result of their actions. That is my point.
mefty - Member
Ah its only the Brexiteers because no one could have a different view to you without being in its for themselves,
If you read his post hes suggesting why they are pursuing such harmful & divisive policies, based on the comments on here, it certainly isn't doing much to heal the mood-
Snarky comments abound...
do you wear a hair shirt to ensure purity?
will likely financially benefit directly or indirectly,
You said they would benefit so I think you will find that is explicit. Different people have different views, they are doing what they think is right for the country, you just don't agree. No one has a clue who is right and nor will we for years.
"will likely financially benefit directly or indirectly" is demonstrably not the same as "would benefit". It isn't even a semantic argument.
I don't believe that they are actively trying to enrich themselves through Brexit and never stated as such. I do believe that they potentially stand to gain from their actions (directly or indirectly) and have very little to lose through them financially. The worst that they will achieve is no net change in their personal circumstances. They have nothing invested in Brexit working beyond the politics of the situation and haven't thus far shown themselves to be people interested in delivering Brexit solutions that actually benefit all of our society or reduce the potential impact of their decisions on us rather than just outwardly pandering to the hard red, white and blue Brexit faithful and getting cheap shots in at a dangerously ineffective and confused opposition.
You are entitled to disagree, but please, don't put words in my mouth and then rail against me for saying them.
They have nothing invested in Brexit working beyond the politics of the situation and haven't thus far shown themselves to be people interested in delivering Brexit solutions that actually benefit all of our society or reduce the potential impact of their decisions on us rather than just outwardly pandering to the hard red, white and blue Brexit faithful and getting cheap shots in at a dangerously ineffective and confused opposition.
Maybe you should actually read some speeches and proceedings in parliament, rather than just soundbites, before repeating lazy political slogans. May has been quite clear, she is following the result of the referendum whilst trying to preserve a sensible and productive trading relationship for both parties. It is some of the European leaders who are talking about the need for "punishment"
May has been quite clear, she is following the result of the referendum whilst trying to preserve a sensible and productive trading relationship for both parties. It is some of the European leaders who are talking about the need for "punishment"
I've read some of the words strung together that May uses, they contain very little and what they do contain is often contradictory or looking for things that are not available (Free trade without movement of people for example).
May et al have used the threat of hard brexit repeatidly, many EU leaders have simply repeated that it is not possible for the UK to enjoy the benifits of membership from outside and that they would be seeking a relationship where the EU benifits. The majority of the punishment lines come from the interpreation of the Pro Brexit press.
I've read some of the words strung together that May uses, they contain very little and what they do contain is often contradictory or looking for things that are not available (Free trade without movement of people for example).
Comprehension isn't a strong suit then - best not to advertise it.
Really it's been all over some of them, then there are the bojo prosecco wars.
It was also Johnson that spoke of punishment beatings.
The divisions within the Tories also causes confusion,Johnson, and Fix contradictory statements about WTO, Davies empty promises on EU citizens with people like IDS and Rees-Mogg attacking the judiciary or anyone who might threaten their precious ego war with Johnny foreigner.
While Mays broken promise to consult with devolved nations over Brexit was repeatedly cited by Sturgeon yesterday, May can hardly complain that the indyref 2 announcement blindsided her when she has shutout everyone else in pursuit of her [s] jingoistic[/s] red white and blue Brexit .
Love that newsnight kept s****ing that the Queen has to sign the Brexit bill into law in Norman French
May's words are full of empty sound bites and mutually exclusive desires.
The so called "punishment" espoused by the Brexy press is just the EU saying club members get club benefits and those not in the club don't. They've even said there are different levels of club membership which come with different levels of benefit - but if you don't want to be a member, abide by the rules and pay your club subs, then you aren't a member.
May is another bully, just trying to bully her way through.
And as for the will of the people - it was about half and half, a little more leave, but certainly not a mandate for spectacular change. Start reflecting that and I'll start believing you are reflecting the referendum.
Now I did find a list of Brexy businesses to avoid trading with if anyone is interested.
And if you are hiring, I think it is legitimate to assume that Brexiness reflects a lack of judgement and hire someone else.
Small but reasonable things you can do.
How unpatriotic of you igm. 🙂
I know. 8)
But actions should have consequences..
(And I've been trying to help dig this country out of the hole it's getting itself into before there's too much pain, and the Brexies have been conspicuously absent - any Brexies who have been assisting with disaster recovery feel free to pipe up now)
May is perfectly clear as mefty points out. Step away from the froth and the path is well argued. And, again as mefty points out mike, all you have done with your specific criticism is to highlight the fact that your comprehension is incomplete.
Pretty impressive so far: delivering very difficult legislation, unscathed and on time. Rare for any government to do this let alone one doing something it didn't want to do.
Need to check on timing though. DD alluded to specific reasons re timing and a bit of sleight of hand timing which - SNP silly games aside - is usually a bad idea. We should simply play this straight, not screw about with announcement dates. This and get agreement in rights of EU citizens nailed in 1Q of negotiations.
May is perfectly clear
She's being clear in not saying much of substance. It's all well and good saying 'we're going to get a great deal' but we need to know exactly what a great deal means to you, and how you are going to get it.
We are heading into a huge unknown, with only ONE person's idea of what we want out of it. How the flying **** is that good management? The fate of 65m people resting on the ideas of just one. It's absolutely appalling. What the **** has this country's parliamentary process come to? We might as well have a ruling monarch.
Mol, you could read the papers and listen to the news.
May & co are seeking a bespoke deal. The outcome will depend on negotiations. Both sides have artupiclauted potions that are unsustainable from which they will negotiate a compromise. Nothing complicated so far.
Management? So far delivery on time and as stated (despite having a team of bozos to deal with) - how often does a government do this.
The idea that this is about one person is pure fantasy and simply shows the depths that you need to descend to to avoid accepting the result. Poor show.
Free Trade: Of course tariff free trade is possible without freedom of movement. Services are tariff free under WTO rules. If you look at our trade with the EU 75% of services are NOT financial. On cars/components we export £15bn to EU and import £40bn. A tariff free deal on cars/manufacturing in hugely beneficial to EU
The EU have stated that Freedom of Movement is required for full tariff free access to THE single market. The UK has responded in the obvious way which is to say we are not looking for that, just a subset
May's clearly said enough to upset the SNP, in her rush to appease her anti EU zealots, shes managed to provoke Sturgeon into launching another referendum at the worst possible time.
She has indeed managed to get the Brexit legislation through unopposed & on schedule.
I'm not sure that really speaks to her competence though as the opposition are not in a position to oppose anything at the moment. But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt in that one.
She's failed utterly to settle the EU citizens rights question.
Already provoking bad will here and abroad (Davies was a bad joke yesterday when defending this stance)
If may can oversee the hard Brexit she's talking up and see Scotland leave the union....
at least she'll be able to relive Cameron of his '[b]Worst Post-War PM[/b]' title
May & co are seeking a bespoke deal. The outcome will depend on negotiations. Both sides have artupiclauted potions that are unsustainable from which they will negotiate a compromise. Nothing complicated so far.
Some vague idea about what she expects to get would help though...............yes, yes, I know it's a negotiation, and I know it's a bespoke deal (obviously all the off the shelf deals other EU bailers have got isn't right for us). But what is the UK aiming for?
And as for May, anyone who wanted to be PM after the Brexit vote would have to be a lunatic, so she's not doing to bad considering............
May's clearly said enough to upset the SNP
Saying "good morning" would be sufficient to do that.