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There's not enough Liam Fox on TV, Johnson gets all the credit but Fox really is a class A clown.
The Brexies , just can't stop lying, taking a leaf out of Trumps book and just claim that the press make it up
https://mobile.twitter.com/AngrySalmond/status/840951403493359618/video/1
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SOM, there is quite a range in estimates as its a difficult thing to forecast/estimate with precision. But the benefits have been large across many areas and the cost relatively small. It's been a very good deal. Brexshiteers have to use pretend arguments eg, we run a trade deficit therefore its bad to cover up the real story
While she pointed at the screen did she not tell him it was there under the 'give him the rope' theory?
@ Liam Fox. I beg to differ.
EU thanks to our ability to negotiate effective trade deals,
Have you seen the list of trade deals the EU has "neogtitated" over past 10 years ? Its a total joke. It's a protectionist group based on membership expansion and closer integration to create a super state.
Kimbers that piece is assuming all co-operation just stops. That a ridiculous assumption. When it comes to science and acamdemic excellent I'll take the US and UK over Europe all day long.
All the supposed trade benefits of the EU could have been achieved with a trade on Economic Community. All the political paraphernalia is unecessary. The trade side was used as a stick to beat countries along the path to the superstate.
Kimbers that piece is assuming all co-operation just stops. That a ridiculous assumption.
Oh I assume the details are in the back up plan.... 😉
Jamba - you said
Kimbers that piece is assuming all co-operation just stops. That a ridiculous assumption.
May I refer you to Jamba's comment
It's a protectionist group based on membership expansion and closer integration to create a super state.
Sorry to point that out to you quite so brutally.
. It's a protectionist group based on membership expansion and closer integration to create a super state.
But haven't you also been pointing out that many EU members are now dissatisfied with this idea?
You seem to think the EU and its members are different bodies?
You seem to think the EU and its members are different bodies?
Well they are, the EU Commission is separate from the Council of Ministers and as there is qualified majority voting over a number of issues, stuff can be implemented that you object to.
Not sure it's the imperial control structure you suggest though. If all the member states wanted something, I doubt the commission would overrule them. Aren't the commissioners nominated by their member states anyway?
The Commission is the executive, it is the only body with legislative initiative.
Well that's turned the pressure up another notch. Sturgeon announces Indy2 shortly before MPs vote on the Brexy amendments.
May not do anything but she chooses her times interestingly.
Obvious statement timing for Sturgeon. Attempt to frustrate A50. She is very well aware the chances of an Indy Yes vote in the event the UK is outside the EU is close to zero. She has no choice.
May will just call her bluff. Sturgeon and the SNP make a lot of noise but on this issue she has no real power.
Protectionist joke? We have trade deals with 90% of all the countries we trade with, many negotiated as a member of the EU. We can and do already trade with RoW.
The EU continues to be a major trading partner for the UK. All we are doing isnto make that more expansive and more challenging and trade with RoW more difficult at least in the short term.
Sort sighted nonsense
Look at the example of Coffee. Raw beans are ultra low tariff whilst roasted coffee has high tariffs. This allows German companies to import beans cheaply from Africa and sell premium roasted coffee tariff free to rest of the EU.
Scottish Ref could play out very negatively for Remainers/pro EUers. Best way to ensure a "No" in Scotland is for UK to have WTO only tariff deal with the EU. This puts an Indy Scotland in a dire position with 80% of its exports subject to tariffs. I can't see how the SNP could win such a Referendum. Any trade deal the UK agrees with the EU the SNP will complain about so whatever the UK does there makes no difference. No incentive to accommodate Scotland at all.
This allows German companies to import beans cheaply from Africa and sell premium roasted coffee tariff free to rest of the EU.
Except roasted beans don't travel well. But anyway - let's have some more examples, one isn't enough.
Look at the example of Coffee. Raw beans are ultra low tariff whilst roasted coffee has high tariffs. This allows German companies to import beans cheaply from Africa and sell premium roasted coffee tariff free to rest of the EU.
Or it allows Kraft to employ lots of people in Banbury in the UK producing coffee which can then be exported throughout Europe cheaply.
Look at the example of Coffee. Raw beans are ultra low tariff whilst roasted coffee has high tariffs. This allows German companies to import beans cheaply from Africa and sell premium roasted coffee tariff free to rest of the EU.
What's your point caller? Any country in the eu could do that
The EU also stuck a tariff on Chinese steel. @Jambalaya is that a bad thing or not?
The EU also stuck a tariff on Chinese steel. @Jambalaya is that a bad thing or not?
According to the Tory party it is a bad thing, it is why they were happy to see Tata goto the wall rather than support those anti dumping tariffs.
It is good thing for Steel producers, who are competing against Chinese Steel, and their support industry, it is a bad thing for consumers, users and manufacturers who use it.
Look at the example of Coffee. Raw beans are ultra low tariff whilst roasted coffee has high tariffs. This allows German companies to import beans cheaply from Africa and sell premium roasted coffee tariff free to rest of the EU.
Is it only German companies who can take advantage of this spiffing wheeze, or can anyone in the EU do it?
it amuses me that despite all the 'hur hur hur' about the people rising up and taking control, delivering results that no-one could have predicted Jambalaya, you seem unwilling to entertain the idea that scotland could turn around and do just that.
i'd hate to see it, but i couldn't blame them, but just as all the arguments for leaving the EU were emotive bollocks, they've been shown to work, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they worked for scotland too.
there's f-all logic involved in either of these movements.
There really is no end to the delusional nonsense that the 'have cake, eat it' brigade will swallow, in their quest to continue their denial of reality
Del +1
(Or +350m if you prefer 😉 )
Given:
1. The succes of BS gesture politics
2. The success of narrow-minded, isolationist, insular thinking
3. The success of blaming others for causing your own problems
The Nats have a much better chance of following the Brexshiteers. If ever there was a moment in time for BS and narrow-mindeness to win it is now
The Nats have a much better chance of following the Brexshiteers. If ever there was a moment in time for BS and narrow-mindeness to win it is now
But they are less prone to BS and narrow-mindedness - look at the Brexit vote in Scotland.
What is clear is that England and Wales are all for the BS and narrow-mindedness so understandable if the Scottish wanted to remove themselves from that.
If I lived in Scotland I would be voting to leave the UK - the UK is an even more selfish and racist country than I previously thought.
Not sure if disliking a racist/narrow minded nation makes me racist/narrow minded, bit of a quandary there...
Oldish link, wondering what opinion is like now, and how brexshit is going to colour the debate?
TMH feast your eyes on the list of heavy weight trade deals signed by the mighty European Union
That list omits the deals we have with Germany, France, Italy... It also omits the agreement with Canada etc.
So we loose those 70 odd + the other 27 we have because of the EU.
What percentage of our trade does that account for?
SOM, there is quite a range in estimates as its a difficult thing to forecast/estimate with precision. But the benefits have been large across many areas and the cost relatively small. It's been a very good deal.
It's a shame the remain campaign were not able to quantify the costs/benefits.
They did but people don't like listening to experts, they prefer BS and blaming foreigners
@Del I have posted numerous times including before the last "once in a lifetime" Referendum that it is up to the Scots to decide. They did decide No 55.3 vs 44.7. Thr argument for an Independent Scotland are even weaker today than before especially regarding the EU membership question. What is equally valid is that it's nonsensical to have repeated "do overs" everytime the SNP can think up an excuse.
@igm Academic co-operation goes on independently of the EU. Our Universities cooperate globally. What we do have with the EU is them giving us some of our own money back by way of grants/projects.
@mrmo the Cananda deal is mentioned in the text, it wasn't ratfied at the time of the report.
Nothing with US, China, Japan and India despite the "negotiating strength" of the - never mind the quaity feel the width - that is the 500m people of the EU.
The EU's trade deals are dominated by those signed with small countries
They did but people don't like listening to experts, they prefer BS and blaming foreigners
I don't think they did, certainly not in an obvious way - like coming up with a slogan "Britain will be £xxxm a week poorer outside the EU" and sticking it on the side of a bus.
Not well enough clearly - we let a very, very weak argument win. It's shameful in both ways.
So A50 not going to be triggered this week as the Brexies wanted.
Rumours of David Davis's unpreparedness not so exaggerated after all?
He also just complained that the (jingoistic) rhetoric being used by some Tory MPs was making things harder in Europe
Jamba - I think the problem with your analysis is that it's stuck in the past. A simple example to take, you have stated a few times that universities have always collaborated, and indeed they have (my father was a chaired professor hence why we found ourselves at school in a US university for a year as kids), but that belongs to the past.
Now that we have stuck two fingers in the Europeans eyes, and the US is becoming a touch isolationist, (and we've been rude to the Chinese and Indians), that is not a clear future. Actually the US has other problems as the institutions out there are nervous that government funding of research is going to be heavily cut - private funding will continue but that will be biased towards short term returns.
The world is changing and you need not to evaluate it in the terms of the past.
He also just complained that the (jingoistic) rhetoric being used by some Tory MPs was making things harder in Europe
Ha, ha, ha. Mr Kettle, Mr Pot would like to inform you of your colour.
I've changed my mind
Can we stay in, please, just so we can Veto Scotland joining 😀
Still a fool then ninfan?
Academic co-operation goes on independently of the EU
Yes, but is cooperation better or worse inside the EU?
They give us more than just money. They let us in on all their projects.
Can we stay in, please, just so we can Veto Scotland joining
It looks like you might have just realised, that if you're not in it, you don't get a say.
Academic co-operation goes on independently of the EU. Our Universities cooperate globally. What we do have with the EU is them giving us some of our own money back by way of grants/projects.
With respect Jamba, speaking as someone who has to navigate these collaborative efforts every day, you are talking out of your arse.
Collaboration within the EU is infinitely easier than any collaboration outside the EU. And those involved have tried to explain time and again why your overly simplistic and dogmatic thinking fails to grasp the point on why EU funding is so much better than what uk Govt provides so I'm not going to rehash the arguments. You were wrong the first time you trotted this out, you are wrong now and were wrong at every point in between.