[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Project Fear clearly over-egged it, they predicted WWIII if we left

No they didn't. One or two suggested stability might be at risk, which isn't the same thing at all. If you remember, there was no single remain message.

And as we have said over and over - it hasn't happened yet. There are plenty of worrying signs.

only the poster on here, whose copy of Jane's Defence Review has stuck together pages, believes that.

I think youll find that theres more than one of those types on here!

project Fear got the timing wrong thats all, well that and Osborne is a muppet

from a science perspective the drying up of research funding has been very real and they at least got the currency freefall right, infact I think they underestimated that bit

Mefty - you made me laugh, and I enjoy that.

Actually a few of the ridiculous comments, hypocritical comments and just plain daft comments from Brexies make me laugh - you're not alone.

And I appear to have benefited from Brexit on a personal basis (at least financially / career-wise, always thought I would though) and I'm still solidly against the stupidity.

And I appear to have benefited from Brexit on a personal basis (at least financially / career-wise, always thought I would though) and I'm still solidly against the stupidity.

Me too. I could benefit from all sorts of Conservative policies but I would never vote for them as a lot of people would lose out (the ones who can least afford too)

That's all wonderful chaps but diesal is 1.35 a litre in the local village and my mates still pissed off that a slow Brexit has caused the price rise...

I kid you not no.2

See. Brexies are for laughing at.

So the old girl gets it through without amendments and looks like she will hit her timetable. She seems to be getting the hang of this now.

Got to laugh at Corbyn:
We want to make amendments, but we'll still vote it through if you ignore them.
May: urrm okaay.

So the old girl gets it through without amendments and looks like she will hit her timetable. She seems to be getting the hang of this now.

I agree she has the hang of divide and rule politics. Shame she hasn't got the hang of making the uk a good place to be.

Amazing but not unsurprising level of spinelessness displayed by MPs

I was kind of hopeful that some amendments could be added on that might mitigate the divisions in the country, obviously I was wrong!

Indyref2 is on its way!

I agree she has the hang of divide and rule politics. Shame she hasn't got the hang of making the uk a good place to be.

I guess she has two years to come up with a plan that re-units, being as she is a tory, she won't give a ****. Not like she will have money issues when she leaves office. Memoirs, after dinner circuit, a few directorships, etc.

"Got to laugh at Corbyn:
We want to make amendments, but we'll still vote it through if you ignore them."

He's playing the Brexit thing perfectly, he and his buddies want out. He's helping to make it happen.

Helping a quick Brexit is the one thing that will make his embarrassing nightmare of a leadership worthwhile in his mind.

Amazing but not unsurprising level of spinelessness displayed by MPs

Even as a remainer I can see that they are in a sticky situation.

He's playing the Brexit thing perfectly, he and his buddies want out. He's helping to make it happen.

agreed, but, those who put him where he is, how are they viewing this? From what i have read, most wanted to Remain. Does make you wonder how long till the next leadership election?

And the one thing we need is an opposition. Checks and balances. two parties offering the same thing is a complete failure.

So everyone goes on about how it's terrible how guarantees haven't been made to EU nationals in the UK, but the amendment to do just that fails. As does the one about money for the NHS.

What a bunch of absolute spineless cowards those Leave politicians are.

So the majority in the house was enormous and in no way reflects the narrow Brexit win. This could (I hope will) completely change the UK's political landscape. Both Labour and Tories have alienated themselves from a significant chunk of the electorate.

Imagine if they had done the opposite and alienated an even greater number

Does anyone think any of the following will be abolished or changed post Brexit?

Mandatory commercial and domestic EPC's
Road tax based upon emissions
Costs of meeting energy efficiency targets
Costs of complying with recycling targets
VAT levels
Introduction of tourist taxes.

Road tax based upon emissions

As for the rest, if getting rid of red tape is the point, think of what red tape can be eliminated. H&S, employment, environmental, etc.

Well if the MPs had taken into account local voting rather than the party whip then I don't think there would have been much alienation either way but here we have people who have been betrayed by their MPs. I think they'll be very willing to look for alternatives to Labour and Tory.

In France we have Macron who is picking up voters from those disappointed with Hollande and Sarko/Fillon and looking for an alternative rather than swinging from one to the other.

As for the rest, if getting rid of red tape is the point, think of what red tape can be eliminated. H&S, employment, environmental, etc.

An old friend of mine voted leave because she thought it would lead to improved employment rights. She's an idiot.

I really hope they don't liberalise those three, all three will lead to worsening of living standards for all but the richest in the UK. Poisoned/polluted waterways, worse air, harder to have children (Theresa seems like she might go after maternal rights, which in the long term in incomprehensibly stupid and will lead to a worsening of the uk economy)...worse lots of things.

Sadly for France , I think Le Pen has a very good chance .

Good for Fallon & Co then Ed. They are very clear about ignoring the result. Let's see how it plays out for them

The provisional figure for the number of workers fatally injured in 2015/16 is 144, and corresponds to a
rate of fatal injury of 0.46 deaths per 100,000 workers.

https://www.osha.gov/oshstats/commonstats.html

4,836 workers were killed on the job in 2015 [ https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm ] (3.4 per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers) — on average, more than 93 a week or more than 13 deaths every day.

I don't know how comparable the numbers are, statistical methods, but makes you think.

"Costs of complying with recycling targets"

I think this would change post Brexit. The current rules incentivise Councils to increase Recycling rather than reduce landfill! Our Council is suffering because people have all but stopped reading Newspapers in Paper format which has vastly reduced the amount being recycled. The only way to increase the amount of rubbish to some how meet the target was to encourage people to bin garden waste instead of composting it in their garden!

So I'd hope that rule will change post Brexit to reduce waste rather than. significantly increase it.

cchris2lou - Member
Sadly for France , I think Le Pen has a very good chance .

hasnt [s]putin[/s] wikileaks said they will be turnng their attention to Macron & Fillon ?

Le Pen will make the second round, however all the polls give more than 50% to parties left of centre so if her adversary is Macron, Bayrou or Hamon she loses. The candidate she has the best chance of beating is Fillon according to polls.

The biggest thing in Le Pen's favour is the division of the centre/left among four candidates. Melonchon standing is the factor that gives Le Pen a chance, as he could take enough left wing votes to stop Hamon, Macron or Bayrou reaching the second round.

Fillon has already been screwed up .

He screwed up himself. I just asked Madame for a few words to describe Fillon: tricheur, menteur, sexiste, malhônette... . There's a copy of Le Canard on the sofa. 😉

Both Labour and Tories have alienated themselves from a significant chunk of the electorate.

@ mrmo - That's kind of my point. If it's going to be a bun fight, bonfire of rights and environmental tools for change, would be good to have a player/s on the field so to speak.

Pressure from all angles seems fair to me 😆

It's going to be like the 60s, flower power, acceptable racism, British jobs for British workers (except the ones we want other folks to do driving buses and sweeping up that sort of thing) Grammar schools, secondary Moderns, doffing your cap to the gaffer, not getting above your station - it's gonna be great... and we will have proper piss poor people. Tories will be going weak at the knees at the thought of it.

Maybe The Donald will nuke Parliament after the speakers rebuke.... after all Donald said on the tele today he was better than just about anybody when it comes to working things out.

We the unheard need a leader.. a person of integrity and common sense. Someone to take us back to the promised eu land. No need to part the waters we have a tunnel..

Any suggestions (asked Binners but he said he would only take a seat on the front bench as Secretary of Culture) come on Europatriates we need a leader..

I'm still hoping Theresa's deliberately turning this into the hardest of hard exits in the hope it meets so much resistance from the general public at large when we all start to realise how much we'll lose that she feels forced to call another referendum or a general election...

I'm increasingly concerned however that my hope is misplaced.

Although I did disappoint my Very Loyal Tory mother the other week when I told her that a combination of her party forcing me to leave London by making living there unaffordable and Brexit mean that they've lost my vote for a good length of time. Reading the FT comments I may not be the only ex-Tory voter around...

We the unheard need a leader.. a person of integrity and common sense. Someone to take us back to the promised eu land. No need to part the waters we have a tunnel..

Any suggestions (asked Binners but he said he would only take a seat on the front bench as Secretary of Culture) come on Europatriates we need a leader..

I never thought I'd say this about a Tory but I'm warming towards Ken Clarke. He is already doing a good job in his new role as the leader of HM opposition. Just needs to cross the chamber to complete the transformation, rally the troops and try to temper the increasingly unchecked plans of the brexiteers. Maybe he could donate some of his backbone to all those in the chamber who seem to have lost theirs as well.

Both backbone and bollocks are now declared unwanted by a three line whip... Corbyn man of the people "my arse"

Fantastic new poll results in the "everyone's a racist" challenge:

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https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration

So the conclusion is that 40-60% of europeans have a dislike of muslim immigration? Sits about right with the Brexit vote in the UK.
Are you celebrating that there are people who seem to have a problem with Islam? What do you think are the causes of that? Misinformation? Lumping together a heap of unrelated facts and imposing them on a religion as a whole?
Lack of understanding that religion and terroism are not the same thing?
Or just there are a bunch of racist bigots out there?

Yeah, that's my experience, Ninfan. We're a friendly welcoming place and always have been.

Fantastic new poll results in the "everyone's a racist" challenge:

It's ok, because everyone else does it.

Being honest, I think people are, in general, a lot more racist than they like to admit or realise. A hard wired fear/mistrust of the different.

outofbreath - Member
Yeah, that's my experience, Ninfan. We're a friendly welcoming place and always have been.

That's an ambiguous question, Ninfan.

Meaning 1: there should not be more immigration from countries that are muslim than countries that have some other faith or no faith.

I agree, there shouldn't be discrimination on the basis of the religion of the country of origin.

Meaning 2: there shouldn't be any immigration from countries in which the majority of the population is Muslim.

I disagree.

In fact if I'd been polled I'd have binned the paper or told them to get lost as I don't answer loaded questions - so only those incapable of spotting a loaded question responded and we have no idea how they interpreted the question or how their answer reflects their views on immigration.

Polls only reflect the views of those who respond, if you tell them to FRO with their racist shit you don't even get recorded as don't know.

I think people are, in general, a lot more racist than they like to admit or realise. A hard wired fear/mistrust of the different.

Always have been and always will be. Muslims are the new mass fear which is now global. Whereas in the 50/60s the UK could just have a fear of Indian, black (Caribbean) and Irish they can now join the world against muslims.

I would say the same/more are homophobic if a poll was performed on that.

On a positive note, the UK is only bettered by Spain in that poll.

Maybe the Spanish translation of the question was less loaded. On first reading I'd have answered "I agree", then realised what I agree meant and changed to "I disagree" and felt irritation with the ambiguous nature of the question.