[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Junkyard - lazarus
A beautiful message delivered from Paris from a man who wants to move to California

Said the person who once said "I am not English ... "

So what are you Junkyard? 😆

rkk01 - Member
Can we take it back a page or two. I'm still struggling with this bit:

You are witnessing the rise/creation of an ultra elite group of people that will one day dictate terms to nations.
These ultra elites strive for individual personal wealth only by putting themselves above many. Yes, you might think that they are merely administrative but have you encountered administrative power?
During the bad times these people will not be affected as they have all the resources require to move around unlike you the poor that will have languish with your locals. The poor are only their stepping stones to maintain their positions coz they are no different from any others that exploit.
The main issue here is why give them more rights or power to exploit and to mess up lives?
Go think about this.

Good grief - what utter nonsense... And doesn't answer my question about skills and attainment levels...

Go read this:
[url= http://www.socenv.org.uk/news/socenv-ends-report-eu-referendum-survey-results/ ]Well balanced EU referendum research - environmental professionals[/url]

It's pretty level headed, with views from individuals who express both Remain and Leave views...

HOWEVER, what is interesting is the views on "how corrupt" etc - massive differences between environmental professionals (who have to work with the EU based beauracratic rules & regulations) and the general populace.

The truth is the EU beauacracy is there to keep Govts, Corporates, Regulators etc on the straight and narrow - and generally works

rkk01 - Member
Good grief - what utter nonsense... And doesn't answer my question about skills and attainment levels...

Go read this:
Well balanced EU referendum research - environmental professionals

It's pretty level headed, with views from individuals who express both Remain and Leave views...

HOWEVER, what is interesting is the views on "how corrupt" etc - massive differences between environmental professionals (who have to work with the EU based beauracratic rules & regulations) and the general populace.

The truth is the EU beauacracy is there to keep Govts, Corporates, Regulators etc on the straight and narrow - and generally works

I doubt I want to recreate "Rome" put it this way. I am sure most can argue better than others and can argue until the cows come home but the bottom line is we are recreating "Rome". I am sure they are level headed, yes I am sure.

You don't need EU to keep the govt truth.

You need the citizen and the people to keep their own govt truth.

Junky you don't seem able to comprhend that someone who loves Europe and experiencing new cultures doesn't think a political union with a club of mostly poorer nations and which includes freedom of movement is a bad idea. Nowhere other than the EU is following this crazy path
Today we where reminded that only the UK and Germany pay in more than they get out. Given Germany's massive trade surplus I can understand why they may think that makes sense but the UK ?

Austrian election is 52/48 for the right sided candidate, postal votes will determine result with them being seen to favour the Green/acadmic candidate

The truth is the EU beauacracy is there to keep Govts, Corporates, Regulators etc on the straight and narrow - and generally works

So what are you Junkyard?

British?

Actually I know he comes from ______________ and is therefore ____________ but really that's neither here nor there in the context of this argument.

Today we where reminded that only the UK and Germany pay in more than they get out

Google really should be your default before you type anything on here.

So here we have it, the Head of rhe Bank of Japan makes it crystal clear why so many global institutions and nations are against Brexit. It would be bad for them ! Their views have nothing to do with what is in the UK's best interests.

[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36354947 ]Brexit is the number 1 risk to the global economy[/url]

Of course as an aside I think a eurozone collapse is the biggest risk and that this is what the BoJ really means, a euro collapse triggered by Brexit

So a descent into global recession would be good for the UK?

chewkw - Member
seosamh77 - Member
... we are EU citizens.

Trying to create new identity are we?

I'm not creating anything. 🙂

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/

squirrelking - Member

So what are you Junkyard?

British?

Actually I know he comes from ______________ and is therefore ____________ but really that's neither here nor there in the context of this argument.

Nope, he did not say he was British but actually said "I am not English".

Why specifically "... not English"?

My question is simple if he is not English then what is he?

However, if he did not reply "I am not English" then it would not arouse my interest in finding out but now I want to know ... 😛

Self interest is better than self delusion
1) he says we will be fine = he proves Brexit case
2) he says it wont and you reject him for "self interest"

All facts, whatever they are support your view even when they disagree with you.

Have you worked out who the other net contributors are yet

You even managed to get what he said wrong

This could be potentially quite serious. If Brexit is agreed, it would have a significant and serious impact on the global economy."
Mr Kuroda also said Brexit would have an impact on Japan's economy as well as emerging economies.

Even with your own link you cannot get the facts correct

Priceless

The antonym of excelopedia is jambypedia

Very simple question to all.

If all things remain the same or better who do you vote for?

i.e. future prospect is good economically and socially for everyone who Vote IN or OUT, no one trying to bomb us etc, all hunky dory ...

I still [b]Vote OUT[/b] because human nature is unpredictable and I rather we contain our own problems at home.

Imagine this if all nations can contain their problems at home wouldn't that be a better place to live? i.e. let them deal with their own problems. Yes, sometime problems come to us but let's deal with them as they come along.

If you are OUT at least you know what you need to do, but if you are IN you will be told what you need to do.

jambalaya - Member

Of course as an aside I think a eurozone collapse is the biggest risk and that this is what the BoJ really means, a euro collapse triggered by Brexit

and that is a positive for britains self interest, how exactly?

I actually read that first time as BoJo - 😳 and just ignored it - Now jamby is even ignoring what he actually said and making things up...you really are away in a fantasy land where facts dont exist

Does 'out' mean the recreation of the border contols in Ireland?

jambalaya - Member
Junky you don't seem able to comprhend that someone who loves Europe and experiencing new cultures doesn't think a political union with a club of mostly poorer nations and which includes freedom of movement is a bad idea.

I agree on the first bit (political union) which is why we are not part of that movement. I did post the relevant text explaining this before!!! As for freedom of movement, I am not sure how we can argue against something that we and our families have benefitted from. That's not exactly fair. Even then, freedom of movement has had beneficial impacts on our economy, so why would you argue against it. Unless you....

€350bn of loans to bail oit Greece would suggest otherwise or the fact that Ireland and Luxembourg are fully sanctioned tax havens robbing the EU nations of 100's of billions in taxes each year

Loans to Greece are not restricted to EU members. Remind me of the U.K. Contribution and how this is structured eg, who guarantees that loan?

What has the tax status got to do with this? Why is that related to the EU? If harmonisation of tax rates likely to easier or harder to achieve as part of a common block? Why is there a moral obligation/ or indeed any obligation to have harmonised tax rates? You argue for greater sovereignty (sic) so why shouldn't countries be allowed to determine what level of taxation suits their own needs?

What is odd about the BOJ describing what is in their self-interest? This whole debate is about what is in the self-interest of the relevant players - hence the sovereignty misinformation. Of all the parties involved, the most insular (myopic) are the Brexiteers with their false notion of greater control and sovereignty.

Manchester United decided to leave Europe by paying for overpriced/inflated players with a mountain of debt.

Brexit is the number 1 risk to the global economy

Last time I checked we were still a major part of the global economy. You seem to have forgotten what happened last time there was a global financial crisis and resultant recession. And if you're worried about the euro collapsing, then it seems to me that Brexit is a damn good to accelerate it.

David Cameron's former director of strategy has called for a vote to leave the EU, saying membership "makes Britain literally ungovernable".
Steve Hilton, who was one of the PM's closest aides, attacked Brussels' "statism, corporatism and bureaucracy".
In an article for the Daily Mail, he said the PM's "relatively modest" reform demands had received "arrogant and dismissive treatment".

*EU standard size and regulation furriness bollocks obviously in the standard 1.8726456 per Man measure

Even then, freedom of movement has had beneficial impacts on our economy, so why would you argue against it. Unless you....

EU28, EU15, A8 or A2?

While the 'totality' may have given a net benefit (short term, as we don't know the full long term costs) everyone has always accepted that the economic benefits of EU15 were massive, while its much more questionable over A8 and even worse for A2

Austria haven't voted in a Far Right President (very little power), Green candidate wins.

EDIT: Based on strong rumours from Minstry of Interior.

I see Vote Leave's rhetoric has resonated well with the classier members of Leicesters neo Nazi community [img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

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Manning a Vote Leave stall must be a stimulating and rewarding experience

No wonder jamby is so excited about a populist far right leader on the up in Austria, 😉

Of course I'm not suggesting that Vote Leave (or jambs )has an anti Semitism problem but I'm sure Jambalaya would agree that they need to launch an immediate investigation into how neo Nazis have infiltrated the organisation

It's an ancient Hindu peace symbol, just ask Ken Livingstone.

Nice tats on that lass!

mefty - Member

Austria haven't voted in a Far Right President (very little power), Green candidate wins.

EDIT: Based on strong rumours from Minstry of Interior.

Oooo! [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36362505 ]News from BBC.[/url]

The official result is expected to be announced shortly.

Mr Hofer had led Mr Van der Bellen by 51.9% to 48.1%, the interior ministry said, after counting on Sunday.

But the 750,000 postal votes - roughly 12% of Austria's 6.4 million registered voters - swayed the result.

😆 @ postal votes swing!

In other part of the world we bus thousands of people from one location to another as phantom voters and the votes from military personnel are also postal.

So funny! Obvious is obvious innit! 😆

There may be trouble ahead ... (Frank Sinatra singing in the background) 😛

Not like you to be sucked into a conspiracy theory fella

In my scenario with a eurozone default / collapse (?) it is a choice betwene two bad scenarios - we are in the EU some are complelled to bail out / support the eurozone or we are outside the EU where that is optional (eg via IMF if they decide to lend which they generally due prudently). Also being putside the EU we will be able to respond by refocusing away from Europe. Whether we are in or or out of the EU the eurozone problem is coming just like in the Titanic photo I posted.

binners - Member
Not like you to be sucked into a conspiracy theory fella

Conspiracy theory? 😆 In other part of the world it is real like in the movie!

In other part of the world we know 100% where the postal voting will go and it is usually a foregone conclusion. We not only have to increase vote but we also have to beat the postal voters since they are all phantom voters (in other part of the world, yes they are phantoms and many of them 😆 )

If the stake is high then you need to ban postal voting.

The stakes aren't high - the role is largely ceremonial.

mefty - Member

If the stake is high then you need to ban postal voting.

The stakes aren't high - the role is largely ceremonial.

started off as firm in, now worryingly drifting towards leaving. oh well consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative

The stakes aren't high - the role is largely ceremonial.

French report result as 50.3 vs 49.7 - what I would highlight is that Hoffer dominated working class vote, this is exactly what I have been saying Labour here must be wary of.

This Is a massive wake up call

He can disolve Parliament

Not generally in practice as I understand it, role is described as akin to Queen.

[quote=binners ]Nice tats on that lass!

Typo surely 😉

Mefty you can't debate facts with jamby he just makes them up

Watch AGAIN

Today we where reminded that only the UK and Germany pay in more than they get out

Go on do it then apologise as its a basic error of fact-
🙄

Sky just analysing the Treasury report / campaign piece (the one Osbourne is using to say Brexit = Recession) even with all the pessimistic assumptions its the shallowist recession on record !! It's barely a recession atnall

Junkyard - the EU budget is a zero sum game, if other ls get out more than they put in then other countries have to oay more. UK and Germany pay in more than they get back and France is about flat. Everyone else is a winner

UK and Germany pay in more than they get back

We must be doing something right then. I'd rather be one of the rich countries than one of the poor who need help.

The Dutch pay in more per capita than either Germany or us.

jambalaya - Member

UK and Germany pay in more than they get back and France is about flat. Everyone else is a winner

http://english.eu.dk/en/faq/faq/net_contribution
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start

Jamba, the EU budget is 146 billion yoyo. That's out of a combined pot of 4.6trillion. it's peanuts, in comparison. It even pails when you look at the uk budget alone which is about 950 billion yoyo. The EU project is a pretty good deal by any standards.

Arguments that it costs too much don't stack up to comparisons.

Yikes he cannot even use Google 😯
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start
/p>

Nice buttons allows one to switch between various views here is Net for Jamby
My personal ambition in life is to be here the day you get a fact correct 😛
[img] [/img]

This appeared in Bristol today

[img] ?oh=f3d8377cef8c81ea1db9b74452dfd52c&oe=5799CA89[/img]

Junky our net contribution after rebate and grants is £8.5bn so that chart is miles off whether you found it via Google or not

shamby the only useful fact gleamed there was that you did not bother to read the links ;we already knew you would object to reality and the facts.